Milling Advice

[jmaine]

Hi, I'm looking for some advice on milling some lumber. I plan on building a timber frame barn next summer (1.5 stories, 28' x 36').   I plan to use hemlock or pine. I'd prefer pine, but the cost is significantly more than hemlock up here in Maine. I built a 12' x 16' timber frame shed out of hemlock last summer and it went fairly well (some minor problems with shake). 

I'm trying to cut costs but at the same time ensure that the lumber I use for the tie beams is structurally sound.  Some of the hemlock I used in the shed would make me nervous on a bigger project.  Also, there aren't many mills in the area that can cut to the dimensions that I want (28' long tie beams that are 7" x 12").  I do have about 12 acres of land with some hemlock & pine.  Some of the hemlock is big enough to use for the tie beams.  I've read the discussions about chainsaw mills versus bandsaw mills.  Given that this wouldn't be a high production deal, maybe 10-15 beams at most, I would think that a chainsaw mill would make the most sense?  Any advice?  If a chainsaw mill is the way to go, any suggestions for a particular mill (keep in mind that cost is a big consideration)? 

Also, anyone here with a strong opinion on Eastern Hemlock? Many of the timber-framers I know say that they hate the stuff, it's hard to work with hand tools and prone to shake and other structural defects. However, there are other timber-framers that use Hemlock exclusively.  I think that perhaps it's all a matter of being careful in the initial grading and inspection of the lumber? I've read that Hemlock that is grown on a site that is subject to a lot of wind (side of a hillside) is much more prone to shake that hemlock that is fairly sheltered.


Thanks for your time



JMaine

[Kelvin]

Let's see...
The standard is the alskan mill, and i doubt you could get much cheaper, except with one of the mini type mills that clamp onto your bar and run 90 degrees along a 2x4 you tack to the log.  But for larger logs, the alaskan is probably the way to go.  YOu can make infinite lengths and after the intial set up the next cut is easy and should make your beams with parallel surfaces.  however for actually making lumber its a chore.  Not impossible.  How about hiring it done?  NObody in your area with a woodmizer?  They can be used to make beams longer than the bed by sliding the log back and forth.  I cut 28' on mine without too much difficulty.  ITs pretty easy.  Save you time and effort.  A big saw is a must for the chainsaw mill and they aren't cheap.  Milling 15 beams on a woodmizer shouldn't take more than an afternoon.
I'm not up to date on wood species in timber frames, but i do know that the load capacties are 10x's what is actually needed especially if you make a roof pitch that will shed snow easily.  What are they actually holding up?
Good luck.  Lots a guys here with chainsaw mills that can help you out by figuring how to make a good jig and laying it out. 
Kelvin

[woodbeard]

Welcome to the forum!

I can't offer much info on which wood would be better for the frame, but the hemlock will make the better siding, as it weathers better than pine.

[thecfarm]

Welcome to the forum.Where in Maine are you?I made a 3 sided building for the horses out of hemlock.I found very little shake,but did found 2 trees that I did not dare to saw into boards.Too rotten.They looked good until they hit the ground.The old timers will tell you to use hemlock for strenght.My father always used it for rafters.Matter of opinion on the hemlock.

[Furby]

We have a member that has an Alaskan for sale in the commerce section.
Here's the link:
https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?topic=20732.0

[GregS]

Welcome aboard JMaine.  I just made some siding out of Hemlock and I love the way it cuts using a bandsaw. 

I have 2 Shil 066 saws and I might be willing to part with one if you decide to go the Alaskan route. 

I agree with Kelvin that you should at least talk to a local that has a bandmill before you spend the money.  If you plan on making more beams in the future it might be worth it but after your 15 with an Alaskan you might be have had enough :D.

Good luck...decisions decisions all while trying to save a buck.  I know it well ;D.

[jmaine]

Thanks for all the advice guys.  Maybe I'll check around the area (I'm in Buxton)to see what it would cost to have someone with a portable mill come out and saw the logs.  Any idea how much that would cost? Do they typically charge by the hour or by the boardfoot?  I guess I was thinking that it if cost several hundred dollars to have someone do the work when I could buy a saw and a chainsaw mill for that same price, I might be better off to just do it myself?  I don't mind a little hard work.  We live in a very old timber frame and I wonder how much time things took 200 years ago. The beams are all hand hewn, that has got to take a tremendous effort.  A chainsaw mill would probably be a piece of cake compared to hand hewing. 

[jpgreen]

Welcome to sawdust heaven jmaine ... 

There's an Woodmizer LT40 HD with edger and re-saw for $18000 out here. Why not just jump in with both feet..  :D

[woodbeard]

The factor I see that tips the scales in favor of the chainsaw mill is the 28' 7x12 beams. Most portable mills can only cut 20' without some sort of extension.
Chainsaw milling is rough work, but it wont be so bad in the pine and hemlock.
Most portable sawyers charge by the board foot, typically between 20 and 35 cents per.

[Greg]

Let's see...
  A big saw is a must for the chainsaw mill and they aren't cheap. 
Kelvin

This is something not to be overlooked, esp. if you want a "cheap" solution. The mill is the cheaper part. You are talking a good $500 for a saw big enough to rip with. I forget the minimum displacement recommended, but its not a small "consumer" saw you can go to Home Depot and buy.

I use a granberg minimill (~$80) to cut shortish beams, 12' and under, and if you don't rush the setup, it basically works fine. Perfectly square beams. It requires a nice flat 2x6 ish board for the aluminum guide rails, so getting 28' would be a problem unless you can come up with a 28' plank first...

Beyond your 10 to 15 beams, after you have a saw, I've seen companies like Logosol and Jonsered make extendable mill beds that accept a chainsaw powerhead. One day I may graduate to such a setup.

Good luck,
Greg

[fencerowphil (Phil L.)]

The trick to long cuts with the chainsaw mill is based
on the use of a simply-made guide plank.   
A good 2by10 flat - no cup, crook, or bow - edged underneath on each edge with angle stock of your choice.  Eight to ten feet long will keep it light.  (Mine are 12' and 16' long, but a bugger to handle sometimes.)

As described in Chainsaw Lumber Making  by Will Malloff  (Taunton Press),
the process for  making long beams is easy.  End boards are screwed to the log. 
Pull string down the log.  Tap in some spikes or screw in some lags to match the
string.  You end up with two rows of lags spaced the width of the underside of your
angle iron on the planks. The guide plank is laid at the beginning end of the log. 
As the cut progresses the guide is moved progressively down the log by sliding
on the tops of the heads of the lag bolts.  With careful execution, you are not
even able to tell any change in the resulting sawed surface.   

This way you don't need a tremendously long plank. 
Get this book, if you can.  They can be had on Amazon.
Phil L.

[Gustavo]

welcome on board

you can visit too www.sawmillexchange.com   and  choose manual sawmills 

like wm lt15 and anothers similars

[Gustavo]

another page  is

www.tomssaw.com 
you can got  a lot of tips   here 

[Raphael]

  When faced with the same question, I invested in a chainsaw mill as kerf loss isn't an issue when milling timbers or producing cants, assuming you are selecting the right trees for the timbers.  If you want to produce lumber in any quantity you might consider a bandsaw or chainsaw mill with potential for a bandsaw upgrade.
  The $500 figure for a milling saw might be a bit optimistic, but a good used one can certainly be had for that price if you are patient and careful.

  Comparing the cost of a mill to the cost of hiring a sawyer is a bit apples to oranges.  If you've ordered specified timbers you have the option of rejecting anything that doesn't appear structural at the time of delivery.  If you've hired a sawyer to come over and mill trees you provide on a per bf basis you're going to pay less per timber but you're going to pay for the any rejects that come off the mill and invest some time in harvesting the trees.  If you own the mill and a problem with a timber pops up during layout and cutting your replacement is growing out back.

  Pine is fine for a timber frame assuming you size everything correctly, it's nice easy wood to work with and mills fast and easy with a chainsaw.  Hemlock is stronger, a bit more rot resistant and should mill fairly easily as well.
  Nothing wrong with using a combination of both; Hemlock for sills, long beams, long joists and rafters, Pine for posts, short beams & short joists.
  Our house (in progress) has nine different species making up the frame (so far), the bulk of the primary frame (18x36 2story) is spruce w/ oak knee braces and the additions are EWP.  Spruce is another of those love/hate timber framing species; it's light, strong and machines well... It also twists, checks and gives you splinters.