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Bandmill Shopping, analysis, paralysis...

Started by Roundhouse, April 25, 2016, 12:24:49 AM

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derhntr

OPPS did not see you are from Northern WI. Saw you had property in UP. LOL
2006 Woodmizer LT40HDG28 with command control (I hate walking in sawdust)
US Army National Guard (RET) SFC

Roundhouse

Quote from: derhntr on April 28, 2016, 02:05:56 PM
Roundhouse,
I would look at how much you will cut in the next couple years as far as species, size, length.  Buying to little of of mill will hamper your efforts, to much mill, waste of dollars unless you plan on cutting and selling mill. If you are only cutting 10-20 trees per year, you could get away with small hobby mill. If you are planning on expanding as time goes by and cutting more get a bigger mill. Sorry that I could not be of more help. Would be happy to let you cut some on my LT40HD. Will be cutting some starting next week.
Thanks, I'm trying to be realistic despite dreaming big. I may be at 10-20 trees for the next few years.
Just as I narrow it down an add pops up for an LT40HD an hour away from me for $8000. Tempting. From the photos it looks to be about 20 years old, under a roof, but having cut plenty of lumber in it's day.
I just think I have a lot to learn about milling in the next couple years. I suspect I need a starter mill to match my scale of output. If I have the fever I can then jump up to a bigger mill, used? hydraulic? once I know what I'm doing and have the ability to troubleshoot etc. There are a lot of open questions about what the practical limits of my drying, transporting, storing capacity will be. Once I start cutting I'll have more answers and suspect the other pieces will take some work before they match the output of even a small mill.
The replies here have been a huge help as I sort this out, I hope to share the lessons and excitement as I go ahead with getting started. FF has to be one of the best places on the web, great folks here.
Woodland Mills HM130, 1995 F350 7.3L, 1994 F350 flatbed/crane, 1988 F350 dump, Owatonna 770 rough terrain forklift, 1938 Allis-Chalmers reverse WC tractor loader, 1979 Ford CL340 Skid Steer, 1948 Allis-Chalmers B, 1988 Yamaha Moto-4 200, various chain saws

btulloh

Good luck with your analysis and your future sawdust addiction.  Advice from the good people here at FF is good and useful.  The Forestry Forum is the best tool in my tool box.

I went through a similar process as you and last summer I decided to get a hobby mill (HM126) instead of waiting to justify a bigger expenditure.  I'm happy with that decision and for me it has turned out that getting something was better than waiting until I could justify a bigger expense.  In eight months I've sawed seventy-few or so logs (a days work for Magicman).  I've been able to make and use a lot of lumber and learned a lot.  If I decided to move up to a bigger mill I could sell what I have today and even if I got back half what I paid, it would be a win.

There's a lot to producing lumber besides the mill itself that I didn't fully appreciate until I got in the game.  Moving logs, moving lumber, dealing with slabs and sawdust, storing, drying and all that.  Stuff you need to make the process work and work efficiently.  That's all true whether you have a hobby mill or an LT40HD.  If I had a bigger mill I don't think I'd be able to keep up with the 80% of the work that doesn't involve sawing.

Of course there's no way to argue that more is not better.  More HP especially.  But for me, having a hobby saw has worked out well and it makes a lot more lumber while I'm waiting to get my bigger mill - some day.

With my hobby mill, the most beneficial upgrades (in order) would be
  - log turning and dogging (takes a lot of time and effort with a manual mill)
  - easier way to adjust backstops (amazing how much time that can eat up)
  - more HP 

Of course I'm just sawing for myself.  But I'm really glad I went small and cheap instead of waiting to justify the bigger outlay.

That's just my situation.  It's a different calculation for everybody, but getting in the game has been a great experience and I'm glad I made the move, no matter what I decide to do down the road.

Good luck with your decision process and enjoy the whole thing no matter how you decide to go.  And keep coming here to the forum because there's lot's of good help here.

BT
 
HM126

WLC

Quote from: Roundhouse on April 25, 2016, 07:45:37 PM
Quote from: WLC on April 25, 2016, 03:42:54 AM
I have an LT28 with the crank handle feed.  Would power feed be nice? Yes, but I do fine with the hand crank for my needs. I saw only for myself, and not for hire.  I feel that I wouldn't like the push feed that some mills come with, seems it would be harder on the back after a day of sawing.  While I haven't sawed a lot of lumber on mine yet, and am no expert by any means I will say that I don't think you will go wrong with a Woodmizer.
Thanks! That helps. From what I've read elsewhere there are two "speed" settings for the crank. Do you change this depending upon the density/size of the log you're cutting? or do you switch it to a faster ratio to return back to the start, then slower for cutting?

Sorry for not responding sooner.  The two speeds you are referring to are on the winch that comes with the log deck package.  The feed crank is only one "speed".  You can adjust the feed rate by cranking faster or slower depending on the need.
Woodmizer LT28
Branson 4wd tractor
Stihl chainsaws
Elbow grease.

Verticaltrx

Quote from: Roundhouse on April 28, 2016, 01:30:45 PM

Thanks, when I try setting things up for an LT15 on the WM website I can't find an option for toeboards, do you know if these aren't available? It looks like a lot of other options do transfer over to the LT15.

This is why my wife can't stand me when I'm truck shopping. I weigh options and prices over and over.
What others have said about not going in the hole to have payments on a mill makes a lot of sense, I'm having second thoughts about over extending to buy an LT28, I just don't think I can justify it with limited time to use it.
The endorsements of the LT15 had me giving that a second look. I could still go for the 25 HP option, trailer and power feed. That would run me just over 10K, about 2500 less than the LT28 without powerfeed (3300 less than the LT28 with powerfeed). If I put off the trailer and power feed until later the gap widens even more enticingly.
Also, the Woodland Mills HM130 is now up on their site with specs, pricing etc. When I run the numbers there I can buy it, and an extra length of track, with a trailer purchased separately for around 7000. This would exhaust the sawmill fund but not require payments. I do like the idea of a double axle pontoon trailer for a smoother ride and stability in case of a tire blow-out. This biggest drawback in operation would be the 14 HP engine and lack of power feed.

The LT15 doesn't use toe boards, instead you can get a taper wedge from WM for leveling logs. It has notches on it and slips over the bunks, moves in and out to adjust height. You can see a pic of it if you look at the 'Pro Package' in accessories, or you can order it separately for about $50 I think. It's on my list of things to buy, but a wedge shaped piece of 4x4 has worked just fine so far.

I think I'd look at logs size as a determining factor in your decision as well. The LT28 will take bigger logs, but I've found I rarely get logs over the 28" capacity of my LT15. More HP is better for larger logs, I've found the 19hp on my mill to be quite satisfactory for the bulk of the sawing I do (pine logs up to 24") and the few 20" hardwoods I've sawn it didn't have any trouble with. If I were sawing a lot of hardwoods in the 20"+ range I would have opted for the 25hp.

Nothing against the Woodland mills, but the LT15 is a very well proven mill, the 19hp base model is only $7K when on sale. All that being said, have you looked at the offerings from Norwood? They also build a top notch mill and were high on my list when I was shopping for a mill. They have several models in your price and size range.
Wood-Mizer LT15G19

jaygtree

roundhouse, if you are anywhere near ashland wi you're welcome to check out my ez boardwalk jr. snow's finally melted and it's time to fire it up.   jg
i thought i was wrong once but i wasn't.   atv, log arch, chainsaw and ez boardwalk jr.

SkyDoc

I just got my Bantam 26 a couple of weeks ago, shortly after I had my scheduled shoulder surgery, so I havent had much time to play with it. I did cut one test log and I have had a chance to see how well it works. For the money it's pretty good if you leave out the supplied track sections. I'd have rather just bought the saw "head' and built my own track system. I chose this a my "starter' mill to mill logs of any length that I wanted, as long as the track was that long.

The log stop "securing bolt" (bolt used to hold it in the up position) broke the first time I tried to tighten it to hold a log. i looked at the head and it was a grade 2 bolt that I broke with a 6" crescent wrench. Other than a small height difference between the track sections the track assembly was "ok". I will replace all of it with one run of angle iron rather than sections when I make more progress.

The saw itself is nice and well built, the directions are easy to follow. The guard around the blade is spot welded galvanized material that had a number of sharp edges that need a file before I cut myself. The transport wheels are the bee's knees and make it easy to move around. I definitely suggest getting them.

All in all it's a good saw but I think you can make a better track system. the one they provide is "sufficient' but I could do better.



Dad always said "its easier to learn from someone else's  mistake than to make it yourself". Thats why I am here....

Roundhouse

Thanks guys, I appreciate all the first hand experience. I thought I'd provide an update. After all the rehashing I placed the order for a HM130 last Friday. Now the waiting begins.
In the end I was down to 3 options:
- Use the sawmill fund on a HM130 and trailer. My max trees this year and next are 24" dbh pine, 20" dbh maple, cut slowly as I learn and build sheds. Have a little cash to support those activities (tin for roofs etc.). If this really takes off I can shop for a bigger mill down the road.
- Use the sawmill fund and borrow a couple thousand to purchase a LT15GO. More HP and options to cut faster, but with me greener than the lumber does this just equal faster mistakes?  ;D Scrape for money as I gear up with blades, support materials etc.
(Option 2.5 keep saving until I have the cash for an LT15GO, mid-late summer, but with the bug to get sawing it would be a long winter looking at a new mill if I haven't scratched the itch first)
- Use the sawmill fund and borrow around $4000 to purchase a LT28. Same power setup as the LT15 but man I like the looks of that full size frame and trailer components. Less money available for other needs and the nagging sensation that I'm not using the mill enough.
While the big mill was tempting, I also want to have my mill stored inside during the off season, the bigger the mill the bigger the challenge that poses. I read another thread where a member took advantage of that sale to order an LT28, the delivery is estimated for July 1, I don't know if I have that kind of patience. I still have a soft spot for the LT28 and it wouldn't surprise me to be considering it again once I have sawdust in the blood.
So it's back to waiting for me, I'll post up a new thread once the mill gets here and I figure out the trailer build etc. In the meantime I'll be reading along and learning here in preparation for making my own sawdust.
Woodland Mills HM130, 1995 F350 7.3L, 1994 F350 flatbed/crane, 1988 F350 dump, Owatonna 770 rough terrain forklift, 1938 Allis-Chalmers reverse WC tractor loader, 1979 Ford CL340 Skid Steer, 1948 Allis-Chalmers B, 1988 Yamaha Moto-4 200, various chain saws

YellowHammer

YellowHammerisms:

Take steps to save steps.

If it won't roll, its not a log; it's still a tree.  Sawmills cut logs, not trees.

Kiln drying wood: When the cookies are burned, they're burned, and you can't fix them.

Sawing is fun for the first couple million boards.

Be smarter than the sawdust

Magicman

Congrats, and the journey begins.   8)
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

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