iDRY Vacuum Kilns

Sponsors:

14" rough sawn pine flooring

Started by ktm250rider, October 06, 2015, 11:45:51 AM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

ktm250rider

I had some pine sawn over this past weekend (10/4/2015) from pine logs that were cut and staked 3 years ago.  We were surprised that i had only one board with ants and non with any significant bore holes.  I have a small room id love to use these boards on.  The boards measure 1 x 14 x 16.  The room is only 12 x 15 so i have enough to do the whole room with no butt joints.  My father built his house 40 years ago and he has a 1 x 18" board that id like to use as well.  My first problem is i dont have a planer wide enough for these boards.  Id really like to use the full width but im not sure i want to hand plan on these boards (maybe a good punishment project for the kids over the winter!)
I suppose i need a moisture meter to check the boards.  Even though the logs have been down for 3 years, the pile was tightly stacked and the boards "feel" wet.  They are currently staked and stickered in my basement.
From the posts ive read, i should cut 3 grooves along each board on the "frown down" side of each board. 
Ill probably hand plane the edge of each board and expect gaps to form when installed.  Im going to use some square cut nails i got from cleaning out my grandparents barn.  Face nailed to the advantech subfloor over engineered I-joist framing.

My main question is can i install this floor this winter or should i wait another year since the boards were just cut?

Banjo picker

If you dont allow them to dry after sawing , you will have some BIG cracks.  it dont matter how long the logs have been cut with most species.  Banjo
Never explain, your friends don't need it, and your enemies won't believe you any way.

Den-Den

I would expect them to shrink more than 1/2" while drying and for them to change in width by as much as 1/8" from season to season after drying.
You may think that you can or may think you can't; either way, you are right.

ktm250rider

OK, thats kinda what i figured since the boards "felt" wet.  They should dry pretty well in the basement over the winter.  We heat with force hot air and the basement is always dry.  I sometimes have to store my splitting maul in a bucket of water because the handle shrinks.
Anything else i can do to the boards during the drying?

beenthere

ktm
Welcome to the Forestry Forum.

Click on your forum name, and you will go to where you can update your profile and add your location. That will be important to answer your question, and also will help to have a better understanding of you as a new forum member.
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

fishfighter

Quote from: ktm250rider on October 06, 2015, 01:42:24 PM
OK, thats kinda what i figured since the boards "felt" wet.  They should dry pretty well in the basement over the winter.  We heat with force hot air and the basement is always dry.  I sometimes have to store my splitting maul in a bucket of water because the handle shrinks.
Anything else i can do to the boards during the drying?


Run a fan around the clock, blowing air thru the stack. Maybe even two fans.

Roger Nair

Ktm, drying rate will be governed by temperature, humidity and air circulation.  Since the wood is in the basement, if you can heat and dehumidify as well as circulate the air, you should be able to dry out the wood.  Caution, you can raise the humidity to mold and condensation producing levels when you bring fresh sawn wood into a closed environment, especially until the free water is removed.  Don't forget to end treat the ends with a wax emulsion.
An optimist believes this is the best of all possible worlds, the pessimist fears that the optimist is correct.--James Branch Cabell

slider

ktm 250 I did my house with wide pine boards and cut nails.My boards were good and dry when i put them down so they did not shrink much.Like you at the time i had no wide planer.I ran the edges with a mikita 4 in hand planer and just belt sanded one side.They came out quiet well.This house is over a hundred years old so using cut nails fit in well.Good luck.
al glenn

Piston

The good thing is the pine will move a whole lot less than something like oak.  I was hoping to do some wide oak flooring which I had milled years ago, but with the amount that oak shrinks I don't think it is a good idea. 
I'd think after drying the wood really good over winter, and the minimal amount of seasonal shrinkage that pine gets, you would be able to have a really nice floor without giant gaps. 

By the way, are you a 2 stroke or 4 stroke kinda guy?  I have 250 xcw smoker, most fun bike I've ever owned.
-Matt
"What the Lion is to the Cat the Mastiff is to the Dog, the noblest of the family; he stands alone, and all others sink before him. His courage does not exceed his temper and generosity, and in attachment he equals the kindest of his race."

Brad_bb

For flooring, dry it first.  Use anchor seal on the ends.  You want some airflow, but you don't want to try and rush the drying.  Slow and gradual preferred.  With the dryness of the winter, it will suck moisture out pretty fast down there. 

You can always put the floor down after it's dry and sand it with a floor sander to get the finish you want.  Just be careful as it's a soft wood.  Maybe one of those 3 pad random orbit floor sander rentals.  I've refinished Oak flooring with one of those sanders but never tried softwood.  If you want a more rustic look, just nib sand the top surface with the hand sander normally used to get up to the wall in a room(another rental) leaving the saw marks, but removing the raised fibers.  You could do a 2 stage stain to create a contrasting look if you want.  If you stain, do a test piece first.  If you get blotching(which you likely can with pine), use a blotch control product first.
Anything someone can design, I can sure figure out how to fix!
If I say it\\\\\\\'s going to take so long, multiply that by at least 3!

petefrom bearswamp

My bedroom floors were put down in 1993, air dried W pine from 12- 14" wide.
They shrink to 1/8" gaps in the winter when heat is on and close to about 1/32" in summer.
All screwed up from under sub floor.
couple of squeaks have developed over the last 22 yrs.
Kubota 8540 tractor, FEL bucket and forks, Farmi winch
Kubota 900 RTV
Polaris 570 Sportsman ATV
3 Huskies 1 gas Echo 1 cordless Echo vintage Homelite super xl12
57 acres of woodland

ktm250rider

2 stoke all the way!  spent a good 10 years riding 300's in the woods until my kids got me going on motocross.   Now its a 250sx.  Those 4 stroke guys just dont know what they are missing.

Brought the boards to a local mill to have them planed, cost 100 bucks! When i checked a couple weeks ago, they were down to 10-12% on the moisture meter. 

Next question, should i tongue and groove them or just butt the edges?

hacknchop

Sqare edge t&g looks really nice  :)  wider boards are not usually v matched but can have the extra v put in the middle of the board.I use just sq edge all the time and looks pretty good.
Often wrong never indoubt

shinnlinger

Shinnlinger
Woodshop teacher, pasture raised chicken farmer
34 horse kubota L-2850, Turner Band Mill, '84 F-600,
living in self-built/milled timberframe home

Raphael

Since you're on a sub-floor there's no real need to go T&G but it is a bit easier to vacuum stuff out of the shallower gaps.
... he was middle aged,
and the truth hit him like a man with no parachute.
--Godley & Creme

Stihl 066, MS 362 C-M & 24+ feet of Logosol M7 mill

shinnlinger

I've been living with mine for a few years now and very pleased with it. 
Shinnlinger
Woodshop teacher, pasture raised chicken farmer
34 horse kubota L-2850, Turner Band Mill, '84 F-600,
living in self-built/milled timberframe home

Banjo picker

shinnlinger your floor looks great.  Just went back and read your link.  Banjo
Never explain, your friends don't need it, and your enemies won't believe you any way.

shinnlinger

I'm about to do another floor with lessons learned from the first.   I'll post the steps. 

Dave
Shinnlinger
Woodshop teacher, pasture raised chicken farmer
34 horse kubota L-2850, Turner Band Mill, '84 F-600,
living in self-built/milled timberframe home

AlaskaLes

Looking forward to that Dave, We're planning on doing similar this summer.
You can see Mt McKinley from our backyard...Up Close!!

Mighty Mite MK 4B, full-hyd, diesel bandmill
Kubota 4wd 3650GST w/FEL; Forks;
3pt Log Arm& Log trailer
Husky 394XP
Husky 371XP
Husky 353
Echo 330T
Nyle 200M
Robar RC-50 50BMG-just in case the trees get out of line

kantuckid

Quote from: ktm250rider on December 18, 2015, 02:34:35 PM
2 stoke all the way!  spent a good 10 years riding 300's in the woods until my kids got me going on motocross.   Now its a 250sx.  Those 4 stroke guys just dont know what they are missing.

Brought the boards to a local mill to have them planed, cost 100 bucks! When i checked a couple weeks ago, they were down to 10-12% on the moisture meter. 

Next question, should i tongue and groove them or just butt the edges?

For true accuracy I suggest checking the moisture content via a weighed sample, that's been dried in a microwave before/after. I use a gun powder scale that weighs in grains, the weight basis matters not as it's the % that tells you what you want. I'm an age 72, life long woodworker, that has never owned a moisture meter.
I've done some wide board floors and the fact that oak's hard to get dry enough (w/o kiln drying) is very true but with pine it's easier-except for the powder post beetles and resin seepage issues that demand a kiln temperature.
The post above stating 1/8" of movement is less than I would say for the same width floor boards-based on my own experience. Drying that much wood in a basement-must be a non living area? HA!
A 14" wide board is too wide to T&G IMO, but to each his own on that one. I like to "ease" the edges on real wide floor boards with a sander for slight V-notch effect. I did two, under roof/outside, porch floors, in 1x6 Red Cedar recently. I air dried the wood to equilibrium (under a roof), then planed all bds on the "bad side"(I used all heart wood showing up) to 1" actual thickness, then ran one side thru a jointer, other thru a table saw, then lightly sanded the "good side" with 180 grit orbital sander while also hand sanding my top edges via eyesight only too create my "V-notch" effect. I placed boards using SS screws(cedar has acid plus floors in weather exposure too) and clamps. One has been in place for a year and looks great with zero joint cracks. I oiled using Olympic natural stuff from Lowes.
My pine experience says it matters greatly if the trees were felled in winter or summer but still expect some powder buggies and resin.
Kan=Kansas;tuck=Kentucky;kid=what I'm not

shinnlinger

Shinnlinger
Woodshop teacher, pasture raised chicken farmer
34 horse kubota L-2850, Turner Band Mill, '84 F-600,
living in self-built/milled timberframe home

kantuckid

I did a couple of porch floors in Red Cedar heartwood using 1x6 boards. I planed the bad side to equalize thickness, jointed one edge, table sawed the other and lightly orbital sanded the good face with 180 grit while also beveling the edges ~ 3/16" with the sander. I used SS screws and some clamping to apply it with an oil finish. The band sawed but with light sanding surface goes well with my log house for a usefully smooth finish yet rustic enough.
Inside my home I have wide oak that was nailed through a countersunk hole and plugged with walnut-now days I'd certainly use either plugged screws or Tremont handcut nails-if a pine floor. Oak they would split unless pilot drilled.
I used Waterlox brand of varnish on my most recent wide board oak floor in a timber frame room addition. that floor is T&G. That varnish is the best varnish I've ever used-period! Several choices in their lineup and can be found sold by some hardware chains at a discounted price if you buy a case of 4.
I'm planning another small cabin for guest/hunters use and may go with poplar. In my area a mill has been selling poplar for flooring, ceilings,walls for a few years now in 1x6 T&G. If you go wider then gaps will happen even in KD. I'll do my own wood and air dried in my cabin and probably go wider.
In my home I have all open ceilings which are T&G 8/4 pine. I paid a mill to run the old part of the house from air dried WP but the new room has my own version run on my router table. i found a builder that liked western WP and bought part of a bundle from him so KD. SPF also looks decent to and you can just buy from a regular lumber building source in KD. I drew up my own set of cutters after not finding what i wanted already to use and saved much money by milling my own T&G wood. In a rustic cabin it could be the finish floor too. Might lightly break the top edges for splinter free floor.
The Op's floor looks nice but stains don't appeal to me much, just a personal wood thing. I'd wash with sodium percarbonate or similar non toxic wash, then do the drying thing. With eastern WP your likely to have some blue stains either way though. Mills dip their bundles to avoid staining.
Kan=Kansas;tuck=Kentucky;kid=what I'm not

Thank You Sponsors!