Black cherry harvest

[GlennCz]

7 years ago I timbered my property.  I worked with an independent logger and we looked at every tree and marked what I thought were substandard trees.  I was happy with the job.  After getting firewood cutters in there and myself cutting my own, you can hardly tell there was a timber job done.

My logger is back.  At first I thought not.  But after taking a walk, he pointed out all these cherries that had tight canopies and dead limbs and suckers.  I can see that the fat healthy ones have wide canopies, no or few suckers and no or only a few dead limbs.  I would like to leave them to put more wood on, and keep the forest nice.  Most of the properties around me have been completely culled, and they turn into beech farms!

I know there are many ways to do this.  And I had other loggers, two foresters and a sawmill look at my trees  7 or more years ago before I decided to go with this guy.  I like him, because I trust him, I'm pretty sure he didn't cut one single tree down that we didn't mark before.  And he is good to work with.  I was out there every day while he as working and i went to the sawmill a bunch of times with the load and watched the grading. 

I don't go for this "selective cut", which to means they cut every tree down that is worth something.  I'm privileged to live in this beautiful forest and number one I want to keep it that way.  Trying to preserve as much of it as I can as long as it has value and I'm not throwing away money.  Meaning, cull the weak trees that aren't growing and get them out before they go bad out on me. 

So my question is.  We are looking at the black cherry trees with the tight canopies, dead limbs and suckers.  Also, he pointed out to me the bark is tight on some of these trees, meaning they are not growing.  Am I right in considering taking these ones out now? 

Also, some of these cherries have a reddish tinge, like a dusty mold all along one side of the tree, what is that?
(I had to find my way to this place after being absent for many years!)

[Texas Ranger]

To a forester, a selective cut is just that, you select very specific trees for harvest, not just the best.  Typically.  I would select the non thrifty, thin the codominants and lightly thin the dominates for increased growth.  Your definition of a select cut is high grading, loggers love it.  My way you get less return now for a greater return later, your definition is start over.

[chester_tree _farmah]

Google crop tree management.  Sounds like that is what they are recommending to you. I practice it on high value hard woods on my lot but I don't apply it everywhere. 

[sealark37]

Messers. Schenk and Pinchot proved many years ago that it was not economic to cut the best trees.  The proper selective cut is described above.   Regards, Clark

[MJD]

To me 7 years is kinda qwick, but I have not seen the trees. I talked with a log buyer a couple weeks ago and he said cherry price has not moved up as much as some other hardwoods in$, low to mid grade lumber is moving but upper grade is flat. If it were me I would check the pricing on cherry in your area and go from there, and if keeping the forest nice is more to your liking thats worth more than the money anyway.

[treeslayer2003]

select harvest is not the same as high gradeing.....that is a rape and run. a select harvest is bennificial to the forest if done right.
as far as wether or not you should harvest, that depends on your trees. if they are sick or stalled then you should consider it as sick trees seldom recover if they are mature.
if you truly trust your logger, then he is telling you he thinks they are sick and you will recover money now instead of leaving them to go down hill.
this is just my take on your post, I am not there.

[GlennCz]

Sorry, I was being a little sarcastic and probably didn't explain myself clearly.  I know what a selective cut is.  It's just that I see so many properties where it seems the selection was all the good trees. 

I went through my records and see it was 9 years, cut in 2005.  I remember my loggers daughters name was Katrina and she was sitting with in late August and I said, you sure are causing quite a bit of trouble Katrina!

But to my questions.  When a tree has a bunch of dead big branches on top, with a tight crown and suckers - it that the end for it for putting more wood on.?

And does anyone know what that reddishness running up the side of a black cherry means?

[Brleclaire]

I would find out what that reddish stuff on your trees is. I did a quick search on the web for black cherry diseases and the are a variety of things it could be, most likely fungal infection that I can't spell or pronounce. Since u did such through research last time it was cut why not this time. Find forester or somebody that knows about tree diseases in your area to indentify what it is and will it spread to your healthy trees. As far as the logger part of it. Sounds like you found a good match. He sounds like he is interested in your forest health the same as you. If he will come in and take the low quality wood to make your woods better he's a real logger not a high grader.

[mesquite buckeye]

Cherries are very susceptible to crown loss in ice storms. I've had plenty hurt this way. They will regrow a crown from the suckers, but if there are other trees pretty tight on them, they are usually soon to be done. The other thing is that those broken branches rot and that rot will soon extend into the main trunk and hollow or rot the center from the top down. I wouldn't wait more than 5-10 years after losing main branches to harvest.

If, in addition, something that looks like disease is present, there is another reason for prompt removal of such trees. If you can get paid at the same time, great.

[SwampDonkey]

If that orange stuff leaves a kind of dust on your hands, then it's probably a decay fungus. If it's lichen than probably won't leave anything and harmless. I know orange powdery looking growth on cherry up here is rot.

[GlennCz]

>The other thing is that those broken branches rot and that rot will soon extend into the main trunk and hollow or rot the center from the top down. I wouldn't wait more than 5-10 years after losing main branches to harvest.

Thanks for all the replies, much appreciated.  I have about 50-60 acres of timber, but of course the quality varies and some of it is fairly dense hemlock.  In 2005 I took out 138,000 of board feet, in 42 separate loads/sales. 

I know there are other ways to do this.  I had a few foresters here, years back, and I know I could get a real pro to mark it out and bid it out.  But I feel more comfortable doing it this way.  But looking at what a forester estimated my value to be worth a few years before my 2005 sale, i don't think I did too bad with my logger.  Also, i could have a mill do it, but I trust that method the least.  At least I have my logger as a go between trying to get the best price.  We took our loads to a bunch of different places, but of course each load is different and it's hard to compare just $/board feet.   My only reservation if of course this guy could have backdoor "deal" with the mills, but I don't put the chance of that as too high. 

We walked through about 6 acres today.  We dickered and bickered over every tree, but he always respected my wish to keep as much of my forest as I can.  Sad because of course the junk beech grows right in the gaps, some spots more than others.  We ended up marking about 35 trees.   Many nice big cherries that I wouldn't touch on the first go around because they nice trees.  Now many of them have suckers, dead limbs, woodpecker holes, sap coming out, and various other defects.  I guess it's time to say goodbye.  I know what that red rot looks like.  Might as well get the dough while I still can.  He will start cutting tomorrow.  Hopefully we will get some nice veneer out there, but from the first go around,

Looking over a recent price sheet and the Pa timber report, I can see that timber prices haven't really moved much since 2005.   But i look at it like the stock market.  Who knows what the future will hold.  I can wait for it go up, but they may rot before that happens, or maybe not. 

Anyway, I really lucked into buying this 90 acres property in 1997 in sot of auction.  My wife said I could buy it, but we'll never live out there (7 miles from prior house).  But after a few years, nothing else made sense and living on and taking care of this property has been a dream come true for me.   Don't mean to brag, but I don't think it could have a better caretaker, I am sure some of you guys know what I mean.  I've spent thousand of hours skiing/quading/running on it, and of course cutting tons of firewood.  As I always tell my wife, more fun than a guy can have! (thank god she's good with the wash!). 

[thecfarm]

Living the dream. I live it every day too.  Nothing I like better than cutting a tree,digging a rock out,smoothing a place out to make it easier to mow or so I can mow it,claiming back the pasture. Life is good.

[GlennCz]

>Living the dream

maybe??  trouble is real life gets in the way fairly often!!!

I do know I'm going to have some good fun the next few months tramping around my woods following the logger. 

Also,  I'll be having some firewood cutters in here, trying to clean up some of the mess.  I'll enjoy that part too.

[SwampDonkey]

Some of us have to make a living to and can't just walk out to the mail box for the pay cheque after 'playing' all week. ;)

[treeslayer2003]

while your logger is there, have him cut any beech he can sell even if you don't get much for it. sometimes I will girdle the small ones if its a bad infestation but cut um wide, them buggers can heal a 1/2" gap.

[mesquite buckeye]

You do realize that beech will become the world's most valuable wood after all the timber managers knock down the numbers. :-\

[SwampDonkey]

The disease up here has knocked down the numbers of decent logs and the value.

[BargeMonkey]

You do realize that beech will become the world's most valuable wood after all the timber managers knock down the numbers. :-\

Good beech is hard to find around here, we love sawing it for survey stakes, makes the nicest sticks.