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Burl Criminal ??????

Started by Burlkraft, December 14, 2006, 08:01:07 AM

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Burlkraft

I just got my new issue of More Woodturning. There was an article in there about a law in Washington state that I'm sure had good intentions, but went totally awry. To protect the forests from theft they enacted a law that you must have a permit to transport or possess certain types of wood. Under this law, a friend can cut down a big leaf maple tree and offer you some for your turning hobby. You load up the truck with turning blanks and head for home. At this point you are breaking the law if you do not have a permit to transport the wood. If you are caught by a sheriff's deputy your wood, your pickup and your chain saw could all be confiscated by the deputy and you would be charged with transporting wood without a permit. This happend to a chainsaw carver and friend of Fred Holder, turner and publisher of More Woodturning. His logs were confiscated and he received an arraignment notice to appear in court. He was charged with transporting cedar without a permit, given a jury trial, and found guilty. The judge gave him a deferred sentence and suggested he work to get the law revised. He filed an appeal and to this date his defense fees topped $14,000.00. How many times have turning clubs had a raffle for wood?? You won a BLM burl and on the way home you get busted!!! You could even be cited if you were hauling a load of red adler or maple firewood without a permit. Actually you must have a permit to transport WRC, Englemann spruce, Sitka spruce. big leaf maple, or western red adler. The permit must be issued by the sheriff's department and it can be quite difficult to get the permit if they stick to the law.

I guess I was lucky to get across the state of Washington with the 2 logs that I got from Frank when I was out there this summer. Have any of you that live out there had this happen?? It looks as though this law could affect a lot of us.... :-\ :-\ :-\ :-\
Why not just 1 pain free day?

TexasTimbers

I am suprised but not suprised, if that makes any sense. If I allow myself to think on it too hard my blood pressure will shoot throught the roof, I could have a heart attack, and the entity responsible for this rediculous law could, by the standards of jurisprudence they themselves have set, be charged with manslaughter.

What a reduculous DanGed law!
The oil is all in Texas, but the dipsticks are in D.C.

Onthesauk

I think the law on WRC has been in place for many years.  Cedar theft had been a big problem, most of it going to shake mills.  Had a neighbor that had a couple of acres thinned this last summer and took ten minutes in town to get the permit to take out one load of cedar.

The one on maple just went into effect this year and I haven't heard a whole lot about it.  I know they have had a problem the last few years with folks taking out big old knarly maples in the middle of the night.

Haven't heard of anyone stopped while hauling firewood.
John Deere 3038E
Sukuki LT-F500

Don't attribute irritating behavior to malevolence when mere stupidity will suffice as an explanation.

Tom

It's just another example of how misdirected government "officials" punish the masses to catch the few, instead of just catching and punishing the violators.

It's schoolroom mentality.   "who threw that spitball? There will be no recess untill you own up".

scgargoyle

Guess folks out there better be careful driving a woodie! :D
I hope my ship comes in before the dock rots!

GHRoberts

Is this for logs or all wood products?

I would expect that a log sawn into boards to turning blanks would be far enough down the processing chain to not require permits.

Certainly furniture would be far enough down the chain.

----

If I paid a lawyer $14k in this matter, I would expect him to win or at least give me the advice that going to court was wrong.


Rocky_Ranger

A good many states have this type of "possessory" law that deals in the raw materials derived from the forest.  Firewood is a biggie, logs, & so are these loads of building rocks or moss rocks.  They are in-acted state laws and usually enforced by the Sheriff.  Of course anything removed from government lands needs a permit of some kind even it it's free.  And yep, it punishes the many for the sins of the few, just like taking your shoes off in the airport........
RETIRED!

TexasTimbers

The oil is all in Texas, but the dipsticks are in D.C.

Camp Run Farm

How much does a permit cost, usually a permit is just another form of a tax?

Onthesauk

Just called the local sheriff office here, (Washington,) and no cost for the permits.  Have to have the prop tax id number and a form to fill out but not charge.

Steve
John Deere 3038E
Sukuki LT-F500

Don't attribute irritating behavior to malevolence when mere stupidity will suffice as an explanation.

DKinWA

It sounds like the law needs a little work, but realize this was pushed by forest landowners and law enforcement agencies.  I'm sure they didn't intend this to happen, but forest landowners wanted the theft stopped.  Prior to this new law being enacted, law enforcement officers and courts had limited ability to arrest and prosecute those responsible for all the thefts.  There is good money in certain grades of alder and maple making it quite attractive to the meth crowd.

When I was looking at logging some alder, I was quoted $1,300 mbd (13"+ small end and clear three sides).  I've heard a short maple log with the right figure can go for thousands of dollars.  If you look around when your out and about, you'll find where thieves have blazed maples looking for the right figure.

Below is the legal definition (RCW 76.48.020) of "specialty wood" that currently requires a permit to transport.  It's unfortunate, but I can see where some turning blanks might fit the definition.  I also looked up the penalty for convictions and it's a gross misdemeanor (up to $1,000 and a year in jail).  I'm glad I didn't get caught with the load of alder firewood ;D

(19) "Specialty wood" means wood that is:

     (a) In logs less than eight feet in length, chunks, slabs, stumps, or burls; and

     (b) One or more of the following:

     (i) Of the species western red cedar, Englemann spruce, Sitka spruce, big leaf maple, or western red alder;

     (ii) Without knots in a portion of the surface area at least twenty-one inches long and seven and a quarter inches wide when measured from the outer surface toward the center; or

     (iii) Suitable for the purposes of making musical instruments or ornamental boxes.

Fla._Deadheader


  Maybe I'm missing something ??? All this mention of the "Meth Crowd " makes me wonder, why isn't something being done about THAT ??

  If Meth is illegal, why aren't this bunch being hunted and imprisoned ?? Meth surely doesn't exist to the extent that whiskey did ??

  We had illegal whiskey crowds being hunted and fairly stopped. Why are not the criminals being dealt with harshly ??

  Meth labs surely can be spotted and shut down ??
All truth passes through three stages:
   First, it is ridiculed;
   Second, it is violently opposed; and
   Third, it is accepted as self-evident.

-- Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860)

BBTom

FDH, Such a sad state of affairs,  because the meth heads are not bound by all the stupid laws to protect the "innocent".  Cops are, therefore they don't have much chance of catching them. 

So now we cannot buy enough Suphedrine to last more than 1 week.  We get looked at funny if we buy Drano at the same time.   
2001 LT40HDD42RA with lubemizer, debarker, laser, accuset. Retired, but building a new shop and home in Missouri.

Norm

I see Iowa wasn't the only state to make outlaws of folks that have sinus congestion. I always figured natural selection would weed out people that take anhydrous ammonia, drano, ether mix it together and stuff it up their noses.  :o

Fla._Deadheader


It just seems strange to me to see all the Dopies running loose, while the Cops lay in ambush for a guy trying to make a little time so he isn't late for work.  ::) ::) ::) ::)
All truth passes through three stages:
   First, it is ridiculed;
   Second, it is violently opposed; and
   Third, it is accepted as self-evident.

-- Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860)

farmerdoug

It seems the Farm Industry may have found a way to stop the meth production at least until they find a subsitute that is.  They found that by adding calcium nitrate to the anhydrous ammonia that it makes the product conversion rate for meth to go from 65-70% down to 1-2%.  Has little effect on the anhydrous as a fertilizer though.  I sure hope this works and knocks the meth production out for good.  But there will very some really crangy meth heads for awhile.

Farmerdoug
Doug
Truck Farmer/Greenhouse grower
2001 LT40HDD42 Super with Command Control and AccuSet, 42 hp Kubota diesel
Fargo, MI

DKinWA

Sorry guys, I didn't mean to turn this into a meth discussion.  I work with a lot of foresters, forest landowners and law enforcement officers and specialty wood theft is becoming a big issue.  Everyone would like to see this wood theft stopped, but there's no quick solutions.   I was just trying to point out why the law was enacted in the first place.  It obviously needs some work and I'm going to bring it up with some folks and see what they think.  Until I read the law last night, I didn't realize I've probably been guilty of transporting "specialty wood" without a permit when a landowner gave me a piece of wood for a wood working project.

beenthere

A similar law is still on the books in WI, I'm sure. It is one that requires a receipt for the possession of a Christmas tree being transported. Theft of trees was a problem, and one can get a ticket if caught without a receipt showing ownership.

Haven't heard of anyone being caught, but the law is there in case it's needed, I suspect. Good sense and discretion at the time of being 'caught' may or may not be applied by the officers at the moment.
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

Jayson

I'm all about conspiracy theories. Sounds like what is happening now has a little reasoning but wait until someone explains to George W. that wood is also a type of fuel. We will be applying for permits to heat our homes.

Norwiscutter

Quote from: Jayson on January 16, 2007, 09:06:42 PM
I'm all about conspiracy theories. Sounds like what is happening now has a little reasoning but wait until someone explains to George W. that wood is also a type of fuel. We will be applying for permits to heat our homes.

Nothing like throwing a little wood on the fire there Jayson :-\

I will avoid the above and instead try and keep this going in the direction the thread started.

From the regs stated it sounds a whole lot like most firewood would fall into the scope of a specialty product.  So if a guy is cutting firewood he has to not only be sure of the species he is cutting, but aware of the lengths of clear wood as well? Of course most of us would have little trouble with this, But how is your normal law enforcement officer supose to be able to ID a certain species or a chunk of woods likelyness to yield good blanks for turning? 

I would rather see all the government money spent on this silly law go instead to enforcement.  Give me an hour and 3000.00 in equipment and I will have a concealed video monitoring system up and covering decked logs at a landing or any where else for that matter. I am sure that for the money they have spent on this program, a state wide anti wood theft taskforce could have been established that could actually address the problem, rather than cost some poor guy 14,000 in legal fees.
Si vis pacem, para bellum.

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