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girdling for firewood

Started by Bill in U.P., December 23, 2006, 09:55:54 AM

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Bill in U.P.

When I was reading my post about thinning, girdling was mentioned which made me think of another question. 5 years or so ago my dad and I bought 3 firewood woodlots from the USFS. I had read somewhere if you girdle a tree in the summer with full leaves the leaves will pull(I can't think of the correct word) the moisture out of the tree as it dies. We tried it and some trees died, some didn't, and maybe 1 or 2 felt lighter than it should have. This could have just been a coincedence. Does this "trick" have any truth to it as far as drying out standing trees?

Jeff

I'm sure it dries the trees to a certain extent.  In the south, cypress was girdled by the old loggers the year before so it could be harvested by floating them out of the swamps. Without the drying out, Cypress sinks. Some still did.
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SwampDonkey

It wouldn't have much affect in drying the stem, as the soil water and nutrients are not conducted by the sapwood under the bark. It is conducted by the xylem (from the live cambium toward the pith) as water evaporates from the leaves. What happens to kill the tree is the tree starves as the phloem (from the live cambium toward the bark)under the bark is severed or girdled and the roots can't get nourishment ,since the nutrient sap flow (sugars from photosynthesis) is being interrupted. Girdling is a slow(er) death, as I've seen maples leave out in spring that were heavily girdled by snow shoe hare. Then, they will later die as the roots starve.

But,If you severe the tree on the stump and leave the limbs and leaves in tack, it will dry a lot more. Then the leaves will wither and die (overheat) from lack of water.
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1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

Bill in U.P.

Swampdonkey your saying if I were to drop a bunch of firewood grade trees in July and leave them until say early Nov. I could expect the stems  to be drier then if I dropped them and limbed them at the same time?

SwampDonkey

Personally, I wouldn't do it unless it's just a couple trees. Makes quite a mess of your woodlot. Bring the stems to the ground at the very least. If your going to use this method on a lot of trees, bring them out to a field. Depends on your skidding path, you might find it's too damaging to residual trees. I have done it with saw logs, yarded them to the field and bucked the logs off and made firewood from the tops in October. If you cut and buck and stack in July, and the stacks are out in the open for the sun to hit, then it will be plenty dry by November for burning. Up here, wood doesn't dry in the winter frozen.

Quote from: Bill in U.P. on December 23, 2006, 03:10:05 PM
Swampdonkey your saying if I were to drop a bunch of firewood grade trees in July and leave them until say early Nov. I could expect the stems  to be drier then if I dropped them and limbed them at the same time?

Couldn't help but be drier, especially when compared to tree length (stem without the branches).
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

Larry

I had a forester make a plan on my woodlot maybe ten years ago.  Part of the plan was to kill all of the honey locust trees and leave em standing to prevent sudden wind damage to the walnut trees.  To kill the honey locust I girdled them twice with a chainsaw and applied herbicide to the lowest girdle.  I had 100% success and zero stump sprouts.  This is the part that I like.  After about three years the honey locust lost most of there bark and all of those 6" long thorns.  A lot of the small limbs dropped off.  I only had to make a felling cut with the chainsaw than skid tree length out to the splitter.  The wood was dry enough to burn as soon as I split it.  Honey locust burns quite well and I can get a little extra, as it is so clean with no bark.

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theonlybull

if your just planning to cut for firewood.  cut the trees in the fall, or winter, haul them out, long, 4' or firewood size,  then split and pile them b4 the bugs get out in the spring.  let it dry till the end of auguest, you'll have very nice dry wood.
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Corley5

Something that I've noticed with standing dead hardwood, sugar maple especially, is that if it has shed its bark the wood will be vary hard and dry.  If the bark hasn't come off it has held moisture in and the wood will be damp and possibly rotten.  I wonder if it has something to do with the time of year the tree dies or is girdled that plays a role in whether the bark comes off  ???
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Ron Wenrich

So, what would be the difference between a girdled tree and a tree that was bug killed?

I have cut qutie a few standing dead, gypsy moth killed oak.  Some of those have had the bark fall off due to shoestring fungus.  The wood usually was still too wet to burn, even after several years of standing dead.  Some of the sawn wood even seems to have a higher moisture content.

Wood dries mainly out the ends.  So, standing shouldn't allow too much drying out.  It you do get some radial splitting, you might get drier wood.  At least, that's my experience with oak.  We don't have too many other species that are standing dead. 
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Corley5

Sugar maple and ironwood without the bark often has a radial crack the full height.  These are smaller trees with a 6 or 8" max dbh.  But that same size tree with the bark on may well be rotten.  Odd that some will shed the bark and others don't  ???
Burnt Gunpowder is the Smell Of Freedom

Bill in U.P.

That standing dead dry sugar maple with the bark pealing off was gold when I used to have the little woodstove in my old house (before the OWB). Nice dry stuff to fill up the otter sled behind the snowmachine around Feb.

SwampDonkey

I've noticed the same as Corley about the smaller diameter maple and ironwood. I wouldn't want to be working around a 2 year old dead mature maple though, with those dead limbs over my head, with near by trees to snag one of them on the way down. Run like the dickens.  :o
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

farmerdoug

Cutting those dead for awhile trees is not for the slow.  I cut dead trees alot but make sure I have a clean escape route and a hardhat on.  It seems that quite often as the trunk of the tree goes over the top has a penchant of just staying in place until gravity tells it it cannot stay there.  Then down it comes like a pile driver, also the branches of the other trees can catapault the dead branches quite aways too. :o

Farmerdoug
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SteveB

I mentioned girdling on the thinning thread, but I definitely wouldn't recomend it for firewood.  It's too dangerous for anything bigger than pre-commercial thinning (and I know it's slow for that).  I would say a good rule of thumb would be, "if you don't mind being clocked on the head with it, go ahead and girdle it", otherwise cut it down and dry it.  From my experince, if you utter the word "girdle" expect ministry of labour inspectors to instantly appear "out of the woodwork".  I think thinning of small material is justifiable, but it's still gonna take some effort to cool the inspectors down.

barbender

  My Dad and I used to cut a lot of dead standing black ash for firewood around here, the bark had fell off and the stuff was rock solid and dry. It did have some decent checks in it, maybe that dried it out.  I just know we liked it, cause we never had time to cut wood in the summer so it could dry, we could go cut this stuff when we needed it and throw her right in the stove. Good stuff.
Too many irons in the fire

SwampDonkey

I have some black ash like you describe barbender. Can't get to. The area was cut in 1993, the beavers moved in and flooded the ash. The bark has fallen off it and it's standing stubs, still has some large branches. My luck, I'de fall through the ice as one tipped and severed a branch or two on the way down at me. Yikes.  yikes_smiley yikes_smiley
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

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