440c winch and what to do about a bad sale

stoneeaglefarm · August 09, 2012, 06:06:25 PM

Fellow loggers, I have 2 problems, Few months ago I bought a 440c from a guy in N.Y. Was suppose to be woods ready, He assured me it only needed a few leaks fixed which is common and some balde work, To date I have replaced the whole steering colum, all the drive shafts, Bearings, Pulled gas tank because of major leak and when I drained the tranny, Plenty of metal, today the winch acted up when I let it out, A grinding noise, Held a hitch fine, But I could hear the grinding as cable let out over machine and helmet muffs, Took side covers of and there is some play in what appears to be the shaft that runs from bearing outside to opposite side which is held togather by a snap ring and several gears, The ring and pinion side looks good as far as filings, What are your thoughts out there.

Mark K · August 09, 2012, 07:54:06 PM

Never had the winch apart on a deere but have had the transmission out and gutted on a 440d. It was a synchro shift. Kind of a pain to work on, had to pull the ROP's off. Got it out and apart. Needed two gears and a shaft. Deere obseleted the shaft, had a machine shop make it. There had to of been some signs of play in the shafts and yokes when you bought it if they need to be replaced already. Have to be carefull when shopping for a machine. Took me about two weeks of looking at skidders all over the northeast to find a decent machine after mine burnt. Theres some real junk out there.

lumberjack48 · August 09, 2012, 08:27:00 PM

Some reason the drum is touching the winch case, maybe you winched op a rock or something, you never know, take a close look.

Ken 45lc · August 09, 2012, 11:32:24 PM

Have you contacted the previous owner about all the problems? Maybe he didn't know just how bad it was (hopefully). I am the worst salesperson ever, I try to point out weak areas that I know about, and usually end up talking myself down in price on a piece I'm trying to sell.

I know a few loggers that would consider it woods ready, they are horrible with maintenance. The one guy works alone, and when he was younger, used to cut and skid up to 3 triaxle loads a day. However, the woods and his skidder looked horrible.

Is the winch the same as on a 540B? I could copy and fax or email the pages out of my repair manual. Luckily I haven't had to open up my winch yet.....knock on wood.

stoneeaglefarm · August 10, 2012, 08:10:09 AM

How do, Thanks, E-mail is stoneeaglefarm@gmail.com, The guy has not returned one call in 2 months, I looked at alot of machines before I bought this one because I wanted a match up to my other 440c, Which I bought years ago and have had no major problems with, I think this guy was just someone who abused machine and new it, I took it out for a spin in woods, But because it was a major down pour that day limited my over all checking, I have had machine for almost 3 months and it has only pulled 6 hitches, Thanks for reply.

stoneeaglefarm · August 10, 2012, 08:13:05 AM

Hey to Mark K, Were abouts in NY are you, I bought machine in the aderondecks, A town called Warrensburg, I have tried calling this Ron I bought it from for 2 months, No Luck, He has a buinsness called Rons logging and tree service.

Mark K · August 10, 2012, 11:14:38 AM

Im about mid state. Warrensburg is a ways north of me. Actually headed just a few miles south of there camping today as soon as the wife and kids are ready. Staying there till monday. Where are you from?

lumberjack48 · August 10, 2012, 02:07:42 PM

When my dad had his C5D for sale, i told people not to buy it. I had never seen anything with so much wrong with it and still pull wood. The thing is the machine looked very nice, and it was a pile of junk. He sold it for $3000.

The tires were all bad, radiator was bad, motor was bad, hyd pump bad, cradle pins bad, pivot pins bad, clutch bad, no brakes, no charging system, batteries bad, u-joints bad, rear-ends and planetarys leaking, transfer case jumped out of gear, Can-Car 20 winch and control very good. My father and brother skidded wood with this everyday, it shook-rattled & smoked, but still pulled a semi load a day.

My father is the guy that says, [ Don't fix it on till its broke]

stoneeaglefarm · August 11, 2012, 04:16:50 PM

Mark, I am from southwestern part of N.H. Do you know any one over your way that chops over towards Warrensburg way, I would really like to get a handle on were that guy is working that sold me that bone skidder, In 28 years of logging I have never had such problems, I have his phone number, But he will not return calls, I want to catch him on a log job, How are markets holding out up your way.

Sawdust junkie · August 21, 2012, 01:41:35 AM

Stoneeaglefarm, was the guy you bought that 440c from living near Groton,NY
And did it have a custom tree spike welded on top of arch?

Sawdust junkie · August 21, 2012, 01:58:54 AM

Stoneeaglefarm, I am a logger from central Pa and I believe you have my old machine. I got rid of it in an equipment trade about a year ago and it was steering hard and would shudder while idling. The winch was binding upon release at times and the blade was slow. I believe the inner brakes in the tranny were coming apart and contaminating the oil because it got dirty fast after I changed it twice. I had that machine for twelve years and pulled a massive amount of wood with it. Probably 12 million feet or more! I am pretty *DanG sure I know your guy. He told me later when I asked where it went,that some older fellow whose grandson helps him bought it to play around with on smaller jobs? You the guy? Let me know. He hosed me too! I told him it was giving me fits but he said he didn't care he would fix it up.

stoneeaglefarm · August 21, 2012, 08:34:26 AM

The guy was a mid size red haired dude named Ron, He will not get back to me, I bought it outside of Lake George area, Town called Warrensburg, Just had its first full day in woods yesterday. Not sure if its the right guy, I am not old enough to have a grandson to work, I am 53, But I do have my son running the other 440, If you think this is the guy, I need his home address, Can not find it thru his cell, He will get a surprise some day. Machine is a 440c turbo. Your thoughts.

stoneeaglefarm · August 21, 2012, 08:48:29 AM

Hey Mark, I am not sure about the tree spike, What was there was broke off.

Ken 45lc · August 21, 2012, 03:27:53 PM

Stoneeaglefarm, I didn't forget about you, but i'm having trouble getting those pages scanned into a file so I can email them. I even had the wife try cause I thought I was doing something wrong. I might be better off copying them and sending via snail mail. If you still want them, pm me your address and i'll mail them.

Thanks,
Ken

stoneeaglefarm · August 21, 2012, 04:25:32 PM

To Ken and Mark, Ken, Found the problem with winch, We replaced the race bearing as it was shot, Thanks for your in put, I found a whole book on parts for both 440s, I also have a tremendous welder mechanic friend and the guys at PB&H in Antrim N.H. have been amazing with help and parts on this deal. Mark, It may be the machine, When I asked the guy who welds and turns wrenches to make sure the hydrolic brake work which is attached to the tranny, I dislike working without that break, He said it had been sheared off some how, It redid the system and I have a rod attached that come up thru dashboard to lock it, Pretty slick, Nothing we could do with the originial set up, On the inside of the cab, On roof, Some one wrote, Last service some time in 2009, The machine had 23-1- 26 on it with rings on front, I sold all those and replaced them with new 18-4- 26 tires, I bought machine to work as its my living and been doing it for 27 years full time, Not a guy who bought it for his grandson to put around with, Its been running 2 days in a row, Sad, But that makes me happy, How are markets over your way, I have a hunting camp in P.A with my brothers, Little town outside of Meshoppen, Called Auburn. Thanks for info and would appreciate any help, Did you replace one axle, There is one on there with green paint. Peter.

Sawdust junkie · August 21, 2012, 10:37:35 PM

Stoneeaglefarm, your seller is not my guy. My 440c was a 78' turbo. If you have or can work the bugs out you will have a productive versatile machine there. I really liked mine. Unloaded it cuz I couldn't figure it out and was also outgrowing a small machine but wish now I would have kept it to refurbish it for my 15 yr old son. Am running a mechanized operation now with a g3 cable in the stable for the nice hand cutter jobs. Good luck to you

stoneeaglefarm · August 23, 2012, 05:32:13 PM

Thanks, Think machine is coming into it, Did some more tingering today and we have it were there are no leaks and the winch is holding up fine, I have a matching pair of 440cs and will keep them till I am done with the wooods which will hopefully be many more years, Good luck to you and all loggers in these tough times.

stoneeaglefarm · August 27, 2012, 08:21:23 PM

Hey Mark, Just out of wondering, That 78 440c of yours, Did you happen to have a mack decal located in the cab of skidder, Thniking that this guy lied about all other things, My guy that works on John Deeres thinks its a late 70s rig, Grease fittings are different than my 84 85 model, The throw out bearing is greased from side of motor on this one, Just curious, Thanks again for the help,

MJD · August 28, 2012, 05:42:43 AM

My 79 was greased from the side of the motor.

poorfarm · August 28, 2012, 04:28:58 PM

hey pb&h just over the hill a bit from me what town are you in?

stoneeaglefarm · August 28, 2012, 05:48:35 PM

Hey Mark, So this 440c is greased from side of motor, Did ya ever have that Mack decal inside cab, I found a bunch of old metal when I drained the tranny, Arch was shortened at one point or rewelded and made a little offset, Also has a new axle on one rear side. Ever hear of that Ron I talked about up Warrensburg way. How are your markets doing.

stoneeaglefarm · August 28, 2012, 05:51:08 PM

Hey to the new guy who wrote to PB&H, That is actually a supply and parts place located off route 9 in Antrim, I am located also in Antrim, Been cutting timber for 27 years this year, Were you out of. Peter. Stoneeagle farm and Forestry.

poorfarm · August 29, 2012, 01:13:51 PM

yes i get parts there to I am in alstead.. iron wood ledge farm

Emajsh · August 29, 2012, 11:01:00 PM

Aside from parts and supply, Brian and Scott are a very good source for info/troubleshooting for most of the older John Deere machines. If i get stumped on a problem i usually call Brian and most likely he knows the answer or has seen it before.

David-L · September 04, 2012, 03:11:53 PM

Talk to the Swenton brothers up near Warrensburg, NY. I looked at a 240 TJ Ron had and passed on it. The Swentens are repair men with lots of hrs fixing timberjacks. Ron's included.
Caveman