The Forestry Forum

Well guys!

I realy wanted a JD440. But here there's a few and far between. All expensive.

This machine was just next door, over the Lautaret pass. Less than 20 miles!

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/19153/IMG_20170816_201537_142.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1502915585)

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/19153/IMG_20170816_201616_286.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1502915586)

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/19153/IMG_20170816_201638_349.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1502915585)

Originally, it's a "debusqueur" a french type of skidder. 4wheel drive, 4 wheel steer, lockers. 4 high, 4 low 4 extra extra low.

The snowblower is shot. But there's plenty of parts for the log stacler blade, winch etc. There is a "unic" V8 of 270hp in the back, with PTO etc. Hydraulics.  and whatnot. Only 250h on the machine, 150 on the back engine. The "chimneys" of the snowblower have 360 hydraulic rotation, which will become my log turner on the sawmill somehow.

V8 will most certainly replace the GM 6-71 in my gen set. There's rams on the snowblower for the blade etc.

So not a bad deal at 2000€ Far sounder than a well broken in 440. It has a 6 inline saviem 5.5 liter of 125 din HP in the front.

So there's some new iron in my fleet.  ;D

Is that cab ROPS certified? or are you going to put a rollcage or T-Bar on?  (T- Bar behind cab http://www.engrep.co.nz/fertiliser.html  )
What type of tires might you use, old tyres and rims off an old forwarder?
http://www.trelleborg.com/en/wheels/your--industry/agriculture--and--forestry/forestry--machines

Now this is a bad idea i can get behind.. Right up my alley!

I like it.  What axles, and does it have any sort of suspension?

Riwaka, Rops certified? In France?  ;D for the moment, i have no plan. But along the roll cage line. There's plenty of space inside. Tirewise, the michelines on it will do for the moment.

Mike Belben, these are portals, made by Latil. Brakes juste outside the differential bulb. Not articulated, there's cardans, but a rigid bar below.  Ans the leaf springs are mounted on this. I haven't paid attention if SUA or SOA.

Here's a page describing the original tractor.

http://www.avant-train-latil.com/TL73.php

I could have used that on my driveway last winter but the neighbors might get annoyed. I can just imagine it moving snow. ;D

Here, it's been 3 or 4 winters with less snow than usual. So the local machines weren't working much.

This one comes from paris airport. Which one i don't know. But it has only 275h. It has a 4 digit horameter, but can't have any more than the 275, it's brand new in some protected spots.

Same as mine, at work.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l7SaT3ZANV4

To work, but in the original configuration.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v06DNzmgr5U

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NHnZB-NlScs

Discovered yesterday, that i have the small wheels :( For which it's even harder to find tires!

Well, it looks much better suited than that crane and appears to have diff lock in both axles which will be a tremendous help.  A rear steering portal is an odd choice for a skidder since theyre inherently weakened by the kingpins and leverage that the portal box places on the inner knuckles, but it appears they have incorporated a lower tension brace across the bottom trunnion?  I suppose i would sacrifice the clearance for the increased strength.



Are they 14-20 xml's?  Thats a common american military tire.

Do you have a winch for it?


I highly encourage you to fab grapple fingers when you build your blade.  For every log ive wanted to push there has been another ive wanted to pull.

Between this rig and the sawmill,there is no need for a sanity check.I can see you are a very troubled soul.There is no known cure ,so you might as well continue on the path you are on. ;D
Best of luck to you.All I have to do is show your latest find to my wife and I can bring just about anything home.
You are a great point man,keep up the hard work.
Mick

Quote from: mike_belben on August 17, 2017, 06:24:54 AM
Well, it looks much better suited than that crane and appears to have diff lock in both axles which will be a tremendous help.  A rear steering portal is an odd choice for a skidder since theyre inherently weakened by the kingpins and leverage that the portal box places on the inner knuckles, but it appears they have incorporated a lower tension brace across the bottom trunnion?  I suppose i would sacrifice the clearance for the increased strength.



Are they 14-20 xml's?  Thats a common american military tire.

Do you have a winch for it?


I highly encourage you to fab grapple fingers when you build your blade.  For every log ive wanted to push there has been another ive wanted to pull.

Mike, there's lower tension brace. With those tires, about 12inches from the ground. They are 11.00r20 michelin XL. But i need one, cose one blew and has been replaced by a no good firestone.  There's a lock at the back, but there's no sign of a handle for the front. I bet there is all the gear inside tho.

I wouldn't mind a set of 14.00R20.

Quote from: 47sawdust on August 17, 2017, 06:57:58 AM
Between this rig and the sawmill,there is no need for a sanity check.I can see you are a very troubled soul.There is no known cure ,so you might as well continue on the path you are on. ;D
Best of luck to you.All I have to do is show your latest find to my wife and I can bring just about anything home.
You are a great point man,keep up the hard work.
Mick

My soul is fine. It's just my brain which is demented! :D

Guys, just one daft question.

Do i keep the ultra low gears? It's on the PTO, and i could use this one for other things.

I have 1/1 for normal gears. 1.72 to one for the low ones. The max speed in normal 5 gear is supposedly 45kmh. or 28mph.  1.72 lower is already very good. I wonder if the 12.8 to one could be of any use?

The 11.00R20 is probably a NATO vehicle offroad tire, should be able to source from various tire suppliers as used tires if a new tire costs too much.

https://www.bkt-tires.com/en/pattern/em-936#cod_8903094026272_over   11r20
https://www.bkt-tires.com/en/pattern/earthmax-sr-44#cod_8903094046706_over

https://www.vrakking-tires.com/truck4x4-tires/231-1100r20-michelin-xzl-new.html

Sent a mail to vraking ans to another guy in France.

The later has replied, 294€ shopping and taxes included.

I will see what vraking says. I hope i can scrounge enough to buy the tire, from the blower's metal. Ans few other bits of metal i have. I need four tons :(

I would be one proud puppy to own that machine. Nice ! !

The 1:1 or 1.72.. Thats a transfercase after the transmission right? 

You want to know your crawl ratio.  First trans gear x tcase ratio x ring and pinion ratio x portal box ratio = crawl ratio.


My truck has about 60:1 crawl ratio..it might go 4mph to the floor in takeoff gear, and will get any load rolling without throttle.  I think deeper than 70:1 is pointlessly slow.

Mike, So these 1:1 and 1:1.72 are the transfer case ratios.

Then after you have 1.93 in the differentials, and 4.93 in the portals.

So that's Just for the secondary transmission, a ratio of 16,36, gearbox not taken into account.

The gearbox is from the Renault TRM4000 or it's brother Saviem SM8.

First gear is 7.41 to 1

Second 4.19

third  2.39

fourth 1.48

and fifth   1

So first gear low ratio, that's already 121 to one engine rotation. Plenty i would say!

With the 12.8 to one inserted, and the 1.72 out of the cinematic chain, that's 902.48 to one in first gear. So, at idle, it would do one wheel rotation every minute or so. Not worth it i'd think!

Youre confusing me now. 

Im seeing 5spd transmission, 2spd transfer case, single speed differential and portal box reductions.  Are there more? Does it have two manual transmissions in series.. Or a brownie box or something?

Crawl ratio
7.41 x 1.72 x 1.93 x 4.93 = 121.27

Transport speed
1.0 x 1.0 x 1.93 x 4.93 = 9.51


Seems pretty well set up IMO.   I think a 900:1 ratio is a pointless novelty unless you plan to get out and walk beside it.  Youd only find use for that type of ratio (inches per minute) in concrete type traction.  Anything wet or muddy will just spin.  Muck requires wheelspeed to clear the tire voids.


120:1is a very capable ratio.  It should be able to provide enough pull and engine braking for what you want to do. 

Hi Mike.

I don't know what is a brownie box!

Basically, there's a second gear at the gearbox (i think) . Sort of. It's on the PTO, then coming back out to the main shaft with pulleys and V belts. An additional 12.8 to 1. I will try it. But i doubt it's of any use besides blowing snow. And since i need PTO for lots of things. I think this will have to go.

Starting thinning down

Photo from yesterday.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/19153/IMG_20170818_202000_171.jpg)

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/19153/IMG_20170818_202020_338.jpg)

Browne-lipe was a manufacturer of auxiliary transmissions that went in series behind the primary trans to provide more ratios on american trucks of yore.  Eaton fuller incorporated the this internally with their auxilliary tail section in the roadranger line, which gave you only one shifter and some air buttons to wrestle, so brownies went extinct and fuller reins supreme.


I understand the pto box now.. It takes power off the trans input shaft, steps it down through extra reduction device and feeds it back into the driveline.  The purpose was to get full engine rpm (to run pumps, trecher, vibrator plow or auger etc etc) at a half mile per hour ground engagement speed.  Its not uncommon for trenchers to have a gear trans with a hydraulic drive option for plow engagement thats routed off the pto then back into the tcase.  Useless for you unless you plan to mow, till or mulch with it too.

I love your truck.   Im looking at those blower mounts and cylinders thinking how easy it would be to base a log loader/blade off them.  Then weld a limb riser brace right off that to an exo skeleton cage over the cab.  This thing is cool.

Mike, thanks for the reply.

The pto is blocked by the transmission thingy.

About the  chimney mounts, they're hydraulic. Ans will be transformed into log turners on the sawmill. Cylinders will go on the blade. Someway. And i just found some parts from a snowplough, with cylinders which will become stabilisers like on my crane. And the guy has a winch for little dough i think. A pan brand. About 15/20 tons.

I guess id hafta see this gear reduction.  I meant a power takeoff acess cover on  the side of the trans.. Not a pto shaft at the bumper.

Take lots of pics as you go!

Mike, this is pure weirdness.

It's dual transfer case. But not normal way. As in a crawler box. One feeding the other.

Nope. There's belts on the shaft from the gearbox, this shaft goes to the transfer case. The output of this transfer case is linked to the output front shaft of other transfer case. I dont even understand how this can work.  Since there's a differential in the normal transfer case. I think i would have to lock the diff, for the four wheels to work. I'll post photos in a minute.

Backside of the second transfer case, with the pulley cover.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/19153/IMG_20170820_115622_284.jpg)

Front, with the pulley visible, and the shaft, which is linked to the front output of the transfer case.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/19153/IMG_20170820_120130_597.jpg) 

Still, that doesn't tell me where to take power for the winch, and hydraulics! I'm onto a lead for the stabilizers apron thingy i want at the back. And for a winch too.

I have taken out and cut the blower's slides.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/19153/IMG_20170820_202215_270.jpg)

Big one has a smaller engine (4236 4 banger turbo) than the little brother!  :(

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/19153/IMG_20170820_202119_124.jpg)

And the big V8, i wish i could stuff this one in the  crane! 15 liters!

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/19153/IMG_20170820_202145_769.jpg)

Yeah that belt drive tcase is a new one on me. 

Stripnaked!

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/19153/IMG_20170827_005047_553.jpg)


(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/19153/IMG_20170827_005104_584.jpg)

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/19153/IMG_20170827_005012_229.jpg)

Guys, one question for you. It would be complicated for me to fit the hydraulic pump on the end of the crankshaft, without raising the radiator.

Hard also, to use the space for the PTO, the gearbox shaft isn't standard. I have hard time finding parts.

I have studs on the crankshaft pulley. And i have a three groove one that i could fit there. and a matching 2 groove for the pump.

Do you think i could power the winch with two 1/2" belts on the pump?

Thanks.

Max.

I've got this on the rear transfer case.


(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/19153/IMG_20170827_154453.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1503846071)

Anybody familliar with this.

Run the machine and see if its an engine speed pto or a ground speed.  Also if it is always live or if it has a neutral, if it reverses etc.  Would be good if you could determine an rpm with an IR tachometer.  Googling for a manual or parts breakdown of the tcase might help.  If theyre defunct you can always try calling whoever bought them out for old literature in archive, ive successfully done so with funk transfer cases.  Takes some time.


What family are the belts, A, B, C etc?  How many gpm do you want, and at what pressure and rpm?

American medium duty plow trucks with automatic trans often use a belt driven pto clutched pump just fine.  Im inclined to say no problem.  It is said that the fixed fan on a dt466 can consume something outrageous, like 60hp, at max rpm.  I dunno.  but its a pair of A belts on mine.

The PTO on the transfer case is on the end of the gearbox shaft.

So gear dependent, with a neutral. Tcase has a neutral too. So i could winch without having the wheels engaged.

But i'm wondering if i don't go shaft there. I have a lathe, a milling machine. and i can tackle the male part for this. And the housing.

And have a little pump for the two or three rams i need.

V belts were A type. No good!

Mike thanks a lot for bearing with me.

What kind of cable speed should i be looking at for the winch?

Any chance of finding a cheap hydraulic power pack? Run the winch with a separate engine/ hydraulic pump/ oil tank mounted on the back.
I imagine if you break a housing/ case on the old transfer unit it might be time consuming to find a replacement.

Glad to help. 

Wallensteins max around 250 fpm on a 540 PTO.  Allied W400 skidder winch does 367 fpm.

Just keep in mind the faster the line speed the more input torque required to pull same log.  High input torque places more load on that rare tcase as riwaka mentioned.

12 gpm out of your A belts at 3000psi using "central hydraulic" pump setup might be the fastest route. 

https://www.surpluscenter.com/Hydraulics/Hydraulic-Pumps/Clutch-Pumps-Hydraulic/1-45-cu-in-Hydraulic-Clutch-Pump-w-Dual-Groove-V-Belt-Pulley-9-1737.axd


American 5ton military trucks had 20k worm gear winches on them with hydraulic or pto power and freespool, usually garwood.  I believe the pumps made 14gpm at 1000rpm or about 25gpm at governed speed. 

  Tulsa and braden are two other common brands and are also typically on knuckle booms and crane/hoist trucks.  Ive always hoped to find a dual drum wrecker winch with the swivel blocks for my skidder project, like how the euro machines are set up.

Thanks a lot guys.

Well, gearbox and tcase are not that rare. Used on lots of army trucks. It's the pto which are rare. Even more the bottom one, than the gearbox top shaft one.

Mike, i don't quite get what the dual winches are for ?

Just handy to have two independant cables. 

Smidgeo pron!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dUegmKEeimA

Pulls like a charm, needs a winch tho. Turns on a dîme, with it's four wheel steer. I need to fix the actuator of the rear locker. Change the fuel and filters. It stinks. An oil change would be good too.

Glad you got her going. 8)
But if someone drags a log like that on a gravel road he should be the one who cuts or saws it.  ;D ;D

Nice

Quote from: lopet on September 23, 2017, 08:15:03 PM
Glad you got her going. 8)
But if someone drags a log like that on a gravel road he should be the one who cuts or saws it.  ;D ;D

Well, anyway, it'll go on my saw. But i might debark and run the pressure washer to it.

No choice, i have no winch nor a  up and down log basket with rollers. Yet!  :( The bridge above this road is about to fail. So i couldn't go with my crane. And i had to drag it on the tiny path in the woods. So, i might as well carry on. This is not my tree. One of a friend. But i dragged the three firewood ones the same.

Mind you the video is crappy.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q6dYPnLW6n8

Also, i have 5 nice saw trees, under the chairlift i work on in the winter. That i'll need to pull before the winter. And if i don't have the winch, it will end up the same as this one.  :( :( :(

And it doesn't appear that i will be able to buy the winch any time soon.

Well, broken the adapter piece of the crane's jib. :(

With this one.
I'll put pics later. I can't do it from the phone.

Here you go! 1.73 m3


(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/19153/IMG_20170924_194227_236.jpg)

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/19153/IMG_20170924_194247_507.jpg)

A bit much for my jib!  :(

Liteul progress!

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/19153/IMG_20180516_180754.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1526491087)


(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/19153/IMG_20180516_180811.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1526491141)


(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/19153/IMG_20180516_180957.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1526491162)



Now, it need a fairlead, a PTO, a fairlead support. An hydraulic pump. New batteries.

I heard peppy lepieu saying "little" when i read it just now  :D


So that center pto unit is the one you did end up buying?  How is it gonna be controlled on your rig?

Hi Mike. 

It's not that small. Can hold 393 feet approximately of 1/2 cable. 

It's a weird unit. 

It has a dog clutch. Which i would have preferred to be friction clutch. Like can car and gearmatic.   It free-spools, locks/ There is an inverter so can work both ways, which can be a really nice feature. 

And there is a neutral in between forward and reverse.  So i could skip the dog clutch on the pto. 

It will be controlled from the cabin. Since with the dog clutch, i need to clutch the gearbox, to engage the winch, so the PTO doesn't turn. 

Some idiot has made a ratchet with the old brake band lever, and welded some stubs of metal to act as ratchet teeth. 

I haven't decided what to do yet with this. I'd like to have a disc brake with two big calipers. 

What do you think of the winch position? Do i bring it further back? Or leave it there? 

Thanks. 

Quote from: Satamax on May 16, 2018, 05:05:37 PM
Hi Mike.

It's not that small.

....



What do you think of the winch position? Do i bring it further back? Or leave it there?

No no, i was busting your stones, you said "liteul progress" which i assume is a real frenchified spelling of "little."  
Id keep it where it is if thats convenient for setting up of controls, access to oil draina and grease zerks etc etc.  Your logs are the rear end weight so the rest you want kinda forward to keep the wheelies down.  Only time nose heavy will hurt is backing up hill.  But you could winch backward up hill if needed.  
I would put 2 rollers on your fairlead tower, like ladder rungs.  One high and one as low as the cable can go without rubbing frame.  The high lead puts max lift on the log but it also tries the hardest to wheelie the truck.  This is greatly reduces by pulling low.  On my tractor and quad i had 3 points, hi, medium and right off the ground.  The lowest point was stablest and most powerful winching point in each case.  I could winch stuff in that i couldnt drag by tires engaging the dirt.


Lawn tractor rims make a pretty good fairlead roller.  Big radius, you can pull chain or tackle right up over them and the flanges keep it in the trough. 

Hello everybody. 

Well, daft question, how thick is the metal backing band on usual band brake winches? 

Because that seems the simpler way. Grind the metal stubs, and use the band brake. 

Thanks. 

Max. 

Hi everybody!

I've got craving, bad case of GAS 

I want one of these. 

Kleszcze KRPAN KL2500 TG KANIA WAŁCZ - YouTube (https://youtu.be/WMC3sqEyIuM)

that sure looks nice, but i think with just some medium size logs on there it will be to light and lift front tires and loose steering

My buddy TJ runs a 3pt grapple.  I think he said this was 30 some foot.  A loader makes a huge difference, as does getting a scoop of ballast in it.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/43722/IMG950610.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1523073191)

Thanks guys. 

Teakwood, i won't lift the whole tree, but just pull. The trick to keep the trunk clean, keep the branches on. 

Mike, you've seen the architecture of my thing.  I wouldn't have the grapple that close to the wheels. And also. Most of the weight of this machine is in the front. So may be it would act more as a counterweight. 

Quote from: mike_belben on June 01, 2018, 08:43:18 AM
My buddy TJ runs a 3pt grapple.  I think he said this was 30 some foot.  A loader makes a huge difference, as does getting a scoop of ballast in it.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/43722/IMG950610.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1523073191)

:o :o you definitively convinced me mike! 

Yeah, front heavy is important in a skidder.  With many tons of weight on the rear tires, and lugs the size of your arm, spinning wont be possible sometimes so naturally a wheelie or a broken component comes next. 


I just looked back at my text.  He said its a 24" bar and a 35 to 40ft stem.  Successfully pulled it to the landing, flat ground.  Id say thats maxed out for sure.  

I have started to work on the flanged yoke on the transfer case side. 

But for the other side. I am kind of stumped. The 1.5 inch six splines on the winch side bothers me. 

I don't know what to do with it. 

Get it out, shave the splines, weld a 1 3/8 adapter. Go for a 1 3/4? Get a splined sleeve machined? 

Well, i'm having a faith crisis, lack of faith in my skills and my resolution. 

 ;D

VID 20180609 192803 - YouTube (https://youtu.be/VIfnMDOHfNU)

Stumped!

Do you plan to skid logs up that hill!?  

Not really. 

This is an access road. We haven't had any logging down there for a while, may be ten years. Or more. I have two trees above, which i need to get. But not without the winch. But this is a simple path, we get far more complicated skidding trails. 

Oh boy.  Roll cage time.

X2. Wow. What were you doing there?? did you slide of the trail?

Quote from: teakwood on June 10, 2018, 11:21:25 AM
What were you doing there?? 

He was thinking about how to build a tilt cab and chained up bogies!

Quote from: teakwood on June 10, 2018, 11:21:25 AM
X2. Wow. What were you doing there?? did you slide of the trail?

Thanks a lot for your replies guys. 
Yep Mike, roll cage time one of those days. Teakwood, this was a looney trip. Going up there just for fun, with a friend. See if we could, as the trail is narrow. Thankfully, we hadn't boozed. 
Since the wheels are all directional, i wanted to go back to the right of the track, and obviously, the back of the thing went to the left, into the grass, and it's steep, try to get back on the road, and the back was going more and more on the grass,front axle went on some brush stumps, and lifted the front right tire. the left one going in the incline. The cab was leaning against some carpinus brush. Only thing i had, was the cable; so i did a sort of pendulum slide with it, between two trees, so i could back safely, this is what the video shows. Well, we didn't have to call anybody for help. Which is a good thing. 

Quote from: Satamax on May 16, 2018, 01:56:29 PM
Liteul progress!

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/19153/IMG_20180516_180754.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1526491087)


(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/19153/IMG_20180516_180811.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1526491141)


(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/19153/IMG_20180516_180957.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1526491162)



Now, it need a fairlead, a PTO, a fairlead support. An hydraulic pump. New batteries.

Guys, an idiotic question, it's a doozer winch. Originally. How do i attach this to my machine. I can have pretty much all the steel i want. I beams, C beams. There is a plate at the back, with plenty of holes. But not much underneath. I know i need to make a fake chassis. Or do you call that sub frame? 
Thanks a lot guys. 

Build a big "headache rack" and bolt it to chassis with stout triangulated bracing.  Put safety cage in between to catch broken cable. 

Thanks Mike. 

Well, i think i see what you mean. But would you have a few pics from the net to show me? 

Thanks a lot. 

Post up an image of the mounting bolts on the winch and ill draw something up that will hopefully help give you some ideas

Here you go Mike. 

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/19153/IMG_20180728_153711.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1532785367)

Would something like this work?

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/43722/0728181823.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1532821111)

Thanks a lot Mike, for all you do for me. 

That's pretty much what i was thinking. I would like the winch to sit as low as possible. But that's no prob. The only problem i see, is the gusset triangles, i think i need something beefier. I need to calculate. the loads and pulling stresses one the welds. I understand now what you said about a headache rack. I should double the winch support with a sort of roll cage. Actually, i didn't think of doing this, this way. But makes perfect sense. 

Thanks again. 

reminds me of the MB-4 Coleman aircraft tug we used in the Air Force
james

They-ve been used as aircraft tugs, train pushers, snow blowers or clearer with a v blade. Forestry tractors, post setters etc. 

I've checked  MB-4 Coleman aircraft tug and true, there is some looking exactly like this. 

Yeah you can make your brackets however you need to get the winch down low and reduce that pto shaft angle.  You may also want to set it more rearward in the cradle for better weight balance and a longer pto shaft.  

The big diagonal line from roller down toward frame corner is supposed to be a brace i just scribbled on.   Im sure youll come up with something good.  Make the headache rack bigger than the cab and it can be the base for a cage, and the primary spot to mount your toolbox, saws, lights, extinguisher/water can, chokers and chains etc etc.  This way when you do roll none of that stuff is in the cab smashing you to pieces. 

Hi everybody. 

Well, asking myself technical questions again. 

The input shaft of the winch is 1.5" six splines. , with a 1/2" hole across it for a pin. I wonder; wouldn't it be clever to just make the drive of the winch around this splined shaft, round, with no splines. And use the 1/2" pin to drive it and as a shear pin, to protect the winch? 

To drag 10 tons on the lowest layer, i need 330 kg or 726 lbs, resistance at the shearing planes, to power the winch. 

1/2" rod, is 126 mm², and i know it can easily cope with 5 kg/mm² So a half inch rod can cope with 630 kg per shearing plane, 1260 total. That's plenty. 

So i think i don't have to bother myself dealing with that dang 1.5 splined shaft! 


What would you say? 

Thanks. 

I would be concerned about wallowing the hole out and breaking the splined shaft. The problem with a round hole through a round shaft is the edge of the hole is very thin. Once it starts to crack or tear it doesn't take much to finish it off. It will tear its just a matter of time.

Itll work.  I piggybacked a hydraulic pump onto the back of a hydrostatic fan shaft using a rollpin to keep the lovejoy from spinning.  Maybe a 3/16 rollpin and its handled 14hp or so, never sheared.  

A 5/8 bolt will tow and panic stop a 14k trailer, so you arent breaking a half inch bolt in that aplication.  My huge forklift chain uses a pair 5/16 to fixed the chains at each end.  

You may want to start with 1/2" threaded rod.. Something soft to get a feel for the load.  Shattering the spline output would really stink.  Otoh if it does shear the debris may eat up your splines.  You want those pieces free to eject.

Double jamb nuts on each end will be good for that. that way they only have 1 way to go.

True.  And add some mass to help them fly out.  

If you put a guard around them you can usually recover the nuts and reuse them :)

Guys, this is how it looks like. 


(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/19153/IMG_20180822_155335.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1534948626)
 

Thanks for your replies. 

Id do it.  If somehow the shaft should snap at the hole theres enough spline to put a yoke on still. 

Thanks a lot Mike. 

Just curious why not set up a small truck tower yarder with the ground you guys have it's be safer.

Quote from: Skeans1 on August 23, 2018, 07:29:53 AM
Just curious why not set up a small truck tower yarder with the ground you guys have it's be safer.

Duhhhh?????? What's a tower yarder? 

Here's a style on a truck https://youtu.be/BpTwTHdjX5s (https://youtu.be/BpTwTHdjX5s)
https://youtu.be/98vF5h5dFVE (https://youtu.be/98vF5h5dFVE)
https://youtu.be/2gEbnshCC0Y (https://youtu.be/2gEbnshCC0Y)
Kolher makes them as well.

One man yarding show doesnt really sound like a good idea to me.

Btw max it just donned on me to mention, you want to ensure you have a non rigid coupling on that output, whether it be a pto shaft, jaw, puck or chain and sprocket coupler.  

I dont know how youre planning it out, but if you have a rigid connection and the chassis flexed under cable load or on some heavy articulation or something, it may sideload the drive bolt and break it, wallow the hole, or shatter the tip.  Sideload on an unsupported stub end like that should be relieved.

Quote from: mike_belben on August 23, 2018, 07:53:01 AM
One man yarding show doesnt really sound like a good idea to me.

They are doing it out here now no more guys setting chokers.

Teleforest no guylines on 2 old excavators setup.
Teleforest cable yarding system - YouTube (https://youtu.be/lzo-g3aHXYM)

Hey guys! I don't have neither the need, nor the money to do this! :D 

Guys, 

i have found this one, ok, cheaper than my previous find. 

Genuine US Military M-35, A1, A2, M-756A2, G742 2.5T,Transfer Case PTO, NSN # 2520-00-229-5673, Ordnance # 11609228, P-136-C | B and M Military Surplus (https://bandmmilitarysurplus.com/product/genuine-us-military-m-35-a1-a2-m-756a2-g742-2-5ttransfer-case-pto-nsn-2520-00-229-5673-ordnance-11609228-p-136-c/)

But way more expensive than i can afford for the moment. 

Found a previous model, with  no oil pump on it. Far cheaper. 

But i thought, if i just put sealed bearings in there, i should be fine no? 

I think that $1200 tag is outrageous.  

An open cage roller bearing with the proper oil seal and good seal surface behind it will work fine.  Just remember that deflection of the seal surface is not tolerated by the seal. If you turn a seal surface into an output yoke, the yoke cannot have any side load, only torsional.


 I built a custom cut and weld transfer case doubler for my buddy almost a decade ago.  The new backhalf utilized a used, open roller honda civic diff carrier bearing and oil seal that was in my junk pile.  NPT fill plug on top and level plug on the side.  Just dumped in gear oil until the bearing got oil and ran it.  Ford ranger borg warner planetary box into an early bronco dana 20 if i remember right.

The truck broke all sorts of 1ton stuff but the tcase lived and was recently sold to go into another buggy. 

I agree with you, price is mad! 

Well, found one elsewhere for 380 or thereabouts, plus 30 something shipping. But no oil pump on it. 

Well, i have a crisis of faith. 

Good news on the generator side of things for the saw. Which is good. 

But i had found a guy on truck parts inventory, with the right  PTO on a semi disassembled  transfer case. And soo far, he won't budge. He won't sell me the PTO. And the whole transfer case is too expensive for me! 

That case has the front declutch dismantled already. It's good for parts, that's all.  A guy on ebay, has 4 of the same transfer cases, for 995 dolls, and he's had these for a good year now. Not a single one sold. And he even offered me the more tatty one for 795. 

Arggghhhhh, i don't want a whole transfer case, and i don't want to pay half of the price i've paid for the tractor, just for the PTO! 

Well..  Then dont.  Problem solved. 

Youve got time.  Leave the door open and something good will come in it. 

Another guy said 500$. I already have found cheaper, but not for the exact one i am after. This is getting tedious. 

But, i bought this. 


(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/19153/IMG_20180921_181738.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1537594805)



(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/19153/IMG_20180921_184341.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1537594809)



(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/19153/IMG_20180921_181732.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1537594806)


It's an extremely tight fit for the moment, and i need to deburr. 

I tried to fit it late yesterday, with no result. Will file all the burrs, and see what it does today. 

If it works, the plan is to turn a chain sprocket,  from one source or another, to the outside diameter of the splined sleeve, assemble the two, i think by welding.  Males a cover, with the lathe, to go around the body of the splined sleeve, with an oil seal. 

Do the same with the winch's splined sleeve too, and be done. 

So youre making a chain drive?

Yeeee haahhh! It fits! 

Well, it would be cleverer. But i'm under the impression that i gonna have to use cardan. The end of the sleeve is nearly flush with the body. 

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/19153/IMG_20180922_153553.jpg)

So guys, with a a T136 T226, may be a T223, the output shaft of the T case seems to be a 1-3/4" 6 splines agricultural PTO shaft. 

Mike, i have also ordered a hydraulic pump, 17cc one, iirc. 25 liters minute at 1500rpm. And the sleeve for the winch. 


I gonna have to attach the gear pump to the gearbox PTO. That's another story. 

Good to see some progress max

Mike, i think i gonna go for the sleeve i have, mated to a flange, one bolt in the middle. Then i'm thinking of affixing this to it. 


(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/19153/splitshaft.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1514044130)
 

So i would  either put it vertical, and use the PTO opposite to the hydraulic pump to power the winch, either with shaft or chain. And the middle flanged yoke as a future PTO, just in case. I don't know if it's still available. 

This would be the cleverer way. I think. Since all the guys with the proper declutchable PTO want an arm and a leg. Here i would have three declutchable shafts. 

That box has 3 selectable outputs?  Wow.  

What are they worth?  Hard to come by?

Hi mike. I have been negociating with that guy for a while. Last time we spoke, it was 200€ plus 40 shipping. I should have bought it straight away. 

They're not that hard to come by new. It's just a split shaft PTO, as someone here told me. 

Here from Muncie https://www.munciepower.com/products/power_take_off/split_shaft

Power trax, at the bottom of the page. http://www.power-trax.de/produkte/ptos/ptos-e.htm

Or hydrocar  http://www.webpto.com/hydrocar/scheda.asp?idbu=1&idcat=13&idserie=1&idgamma=1&idprod=6&cod=P842315

But if you want to make that on the cheap. A divorced transfer case can well do the job.  You can declutch the front shaft, and the rear shaft puting it in neutral. Have the croice of going  for a lower speed with more torque. And can even find other PTOs to fit to it, often. 

T600 rockwell for example, could be interesting. 1 input shaft, Rear shaft, front shaft can be de clutched , so can be a proportional PTO, and there is a PTO output i believe, which can be used when the case is in neutral. 

You can even piggyback two transfer cases  ;DSo front  shaft of the first one can become a PTO. etc! 

Dang, just got the reply from the guy, the dang thing is gone.

Talk about hope and setbacks. Mind you, i will still ask the Chinese guy on Alibaba. If ever i can find one dirt cheap there. I've seen, some. 

What did the pictured case weigh?  Could the center output be placed in neutral and the other outputs engaged?

Quote from: mike_belben on September 24, 2018, 07:41:09 AM
What did the pictured case weigh?  Could the center output be placed in neutral and the other outputs engaged?

About 50 kilos Yep, it's three independent PTOs. It's meant to be mounted on the shaft going to the rear wheels. If you need the vehicule to be static, with the pump, and other PTO to be running, , you declutch the main shaft. And use the other two. 

They explain here how it works. 

Split Shaft Power Take Off (https://www.kozmaksan.net/split-shaft-power-take-off-dtb-12)

Ahh.. Now i get it. Thanks for the info max

So, a decision has been made! That gonna be a nasty job of removing the teeth of that conical pinion. 

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/19153/IMG_20180922_153553.jpg)


(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/19153/IMG_20180925_173510.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1537901314)



(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/19153/IMG_20180925_1734475B25D.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1537901317)



(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/19153/IMG_20180925_173719.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1537901318)




(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/19153/IMG_20180925_184638.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1537901322)

do you have a grinder that can be mounted to your lathe toolpost?  

whats your plan for ensuring it welds square and doesnt crack afterwards?  

Well. I will grind the teeth first.  Not on the lathe. That's forbiden  ;D

I will make a centering cylinder with what's left of the gear. Which will be the same diameter as the inner splines of the sleeve. 

And a shelf with the bottom part of the gear. Onto which the sleeve will be welded with 312-16. 

I think i will do several passes, And turn the weld clean. Tho. I have room. 

You have experience with preheat and post heat for high carbon alloys right?

Quote from: mike_belben on September 25, 2018, 06:09:35 PM
You have experience with preheat and post heat for high carbon alloys right?

You mean, like for welding cast iron? 

Yeah basically.  That pinion is likely to be a 4140, 4130 or 8620 etc.  Stuff with significant carbon that will play nicer if you warm it up and cool it down slowly.  If its hard enough to mesh with other steel under load, its hard enough to crack from welding.  

Guys, i got this. 

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/19153/IMG_20181011_190009.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1539277492)

Do you think i bother using a rotator?  For a skidding grapple, or i juste make a neutral link, which return to perpendicular to the arm with weight. 

How deep are your pockets?

I'm a scrounger! :D 

But looking at what he does at 3.20 here, i guess i need one. 

Grapple Skidder CAT 525C - YouTube (https://youtu.be/u0g6ANWpasU)

And without one, i won't be able to take a tree across. Unlike this. 

Grapple trabajando - YouTube (https://youtu.be/R_-IZ8Cd0jw)

Well, vague progress have been made. 


(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/19153/IMG_20190509_171056.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1558263818)
 

And i have goten a new baby as a spare part bank. 


(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/19153/IMG_20190519_122922.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1558265544)
 
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/19153/IMG_20190519_122910.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1558265580)
 
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/19153/IMG_20190519_122943.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1558265609)
 


Only problems is, i have already sold it minus the few parts i needed straight away.  And i can't keep the wheels! :(

VID 20190605 163815 - YouTube (https://youtu.be/ssJoZPXcQfk)


VID 20190605 164011 - YouTube (https://youtu.be/KA0Ma5qKU1U)

Taking measurements. 
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/19153/IMG_20190721_151725.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1563733426)
 

What was on the back before, a power unit?

Quote from: mike_belben on July 21, 2019, 11:58:41 PM
What was on the back before, a power unit?

Yes Mike, a 11 liter v8. Now, i have managed to make the pto. I have dismantled the winch frame and agricultural pto from the other latil. And i'm trying to fit all the stuff on mine. 

Trying to fit the thing. 


(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/19153/IMG_20190722_104353.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1563786575)
 


(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/19153/IMG_20190722_104329.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1563785799)
 

The original winch has only  four anchoring  points underneath.  This carco has prety much the same. Two l shape brackets at the front casting. Two  3/4 or a smidge bigger bolts, in the casting. 

Do you guys think it is enough. I would rather not weld a backplate if i can avoid it.  ;D
many other questions. 

 Do you think i should keep the pivoting boat anchor at the back?

Or make a log basket ? 

Can the log basket be made with single acting cylinders? The weight lowering it, and the cylinders raising it? I already have most of the gear for this. 

How much angle can the cable do with the roller fairlead.  

Well. Thanks a lot guys. 

Future roller fairlead.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/19153/IMG_20190723_105348.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1563872168)
 

I'm also interested to hear peoples opinion on the fairlead cable angle.  Always nice to see the progress on your project.  

Thanks a lot  nativewolf. 

Well, i'm searching High and low for answers on the fixing of the winch.  On torque numbers to décide which chain i should use. 

Four 3/4 bolts will pick a house.  


The cable should go over as large a radius as you can manage.  

Thanks a lot Mike. 

Guys, how do you call that frame with the two triangles? In French, it's called "une bêche" . you lower it with the winch, before winching your trees.  And raise it back up afterwards. It's in my opinion, very  slow. And not very practical. 

I'm juste wondering if it's worth keeping for the moment. 

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/19153/IMG_20190721_151725.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1563733426)

Do you have hydraulics on that? I think I would make it go straight up and down with a hydraulic ram. I do think your going to want to keep that. When you start winching without it those 4 little tires won't have much holding power.

Hi Crusarius.

Thanks for the reply.

Nom hydraulics on it. 

Chop it off and repurpose it into a hydraulic butt plate with a good bottom lip that can both support logs, and dig in to stop the truck from being dragged.  Power down will also lift your truck oilut of the ruts it sinks into for cribbing stuff under the tires.  Polish skidding tractors tend to use these if you want examples

Thanks a lot Mike. Well checked leśnictwa tractors. To no avail. But i have gear to slide a log basket up and down.  Except the hydraulic cylinders. 

I think i know what you mean.

Like this.


(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/19153/BRHHW1.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1564108645)
 

Exactly.   1 blade at each end with power downpressure should mean tire changes and getting unstuck are pretty easy. 

Bad surprise today, 

the two stubs that i thought were threaded underneath, aren't. So i need a backplate! :( 

I will definitely have to move the original roller fairlead. And it will be hard to get out without cutting pieces i don't want to cut! 

Well, that's life! 

What isnt threaded.. The winch housing mount flange?  What do you mean by backplate.. Got a pic?

Hi Mike, you see the stub, under the rectangular plate with four bolts, on the cross piece on the chassis? Under the two left bolts. I thought it was threaded.  And it isn't. I might thread it! But, i wonder about the oil which is supposed to go in there. 

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/19153/IMG_20190722_104353.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1563786575)



As for the back plate, i need something matching this to affix the winch. I see two U channel, with a crosspiece, welded to the fake chassis. 

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/19153/IMG_20180728_153711.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1532785367)


Well well well! 

Change of plan regarding the roller bearing,  and presenting the pto approximately where it should go. 
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/19153/IMG_20190811_185024.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1565609408)
 
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/19153/IMG_20190811_185039.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1565609482)
 
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/19153/IMG_20190811_201447.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1565609527)
 

The roller fairlead will go down the height of the C profile bellow.  

I haven't touched this thing much since last year. But there is a change. 

I get rid of all the carco winch, tiny roller fairlead, top frame etc. 

And i have bought the rear end of this sight unseen. 


(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/19153/440rear.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1591649656)

We'll see if this isn't another failure of mine! 

Hope the gearmatic doesn't need a full rebuild. 

And that it will be easy enough to adapt. I hope the command handle is there. The guys asked a smidge more money than we originally agreed, 1800€, 300€ more than i offered. I'll try to scrounge the blade!  ;D


Can anybody tell me if it's a 9 or 19? Or may be if i'm lucky, a 20? 

Thanks a lot guys. 
 

 From what I can see in the pict, it looks like my 19. There's a lot of info here to be able to work on it.

A gearmatic winch on a deere skidder?? i thought they all had  deere winches.  The frame looks exactly as my 540A

You know Teakwood.  In France, it's the land of bits and bobs! With the sequels of the marshall plan, often US equipment came here in parts. And assembled here. So that could be why. Of the winch broke, and the gearmatic has been adapted afterwards. 

Thanks a lot guys! 

Guys, do you think i shed bucks to fit bigger tires on the latil? 

The same as on the brimont, 13.00r20. 

I have 11.00r20 on it for the moment. I have chains for those. 

The latil has been fitted with 11x24 - 14,5x20 - 14,9x24 - 16x20

Run what ya brung.

Well, i had to look it up! 

And, i know these are in a barn, somewhere, hidden, and not really for sale. 

Some of the parts i need! ;D

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/19153/IMG_20200610_230400_01.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1591826536)

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/19153/IMG_20200610_230419_01.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1591826563)

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/19153/IMG_20200610_230425_01.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1591826588)

 I see pict's but what parts do you need?

All of it, rollers with the "stance"  winch, all the hydraulics, log basket. 

I have bought the whole rear end :D

Looks like a 19 to me, if it's been sitting long you'll be into the brake and clutch side no doubt. There finicky but once you know what's what they are easy to work on I've found. 

Hi Plankton.

I guess i'll have a sniff under those covers!

All i hope, is that i don't have to do the brake band and clutch packing.

I have seen several threads here about gearmatics!

I really wanted one, because, in the end, i might be able to remote control it.

 It would be real easy to set up remote control on a 19.

Well, I have it now. It's been refited ats point , onto the jd 440b 

It's been messed up with, the clutch tube cover is half tightened. 
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/19153/IMG_20200619_204839.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1592662057)
 

I have few questions. 

What sockets or wrenches do I need for the gearmatic ?  1/2 i guess. By the way, it's a 19.  A bit tatty. The splines of the input shaft are ugly. Any advice about dealing with this? 

How many cubic inches do I need to move the clutch cylinder and the brake cylinder? What kind of pressure would those need? I'm looking at full hydraulic controls. Powered by the tractor hydraulics. But I need to be careful not to overpressure those cylinders. 

Thanks guys. 

If absolutely necessary, you can tig up the splines and reshape them with a cutoff disc and hand files.  It has been working in the 3rd world since splines were invented. 

Google around and try to find a .pdf file on the winch model.  Somewhere inside it should call out pressures for each circuit.  You may need to build a somewhat snazzy control with gauges and adjustable reliefs for each side. im confident you can do it. 

Mike, i've downloaded a manual, but it doesn't say much about pressure. I know i can do it. But that is if procrastination and laziness doesn't get the best part of me! 

 It doesn't call for pressures for operation as it's operated by hand control the clutch side I don't use more than 10 psi as it has a 2 clutch system where the first is used to push the 2nd into action. The brake side is used for free wheel where the control pushes a cam over effect to hold open the brake.

Thanks a lot Ed K. 

Well, 10 PSI is nothing. What would be fantastic would be to know how much the cylinders can cope with. 

Thanks again. 

 The activation cylinders are nothing more than wheel cylinders on a car. On the pressure side i don't think they travel more than 1 1/2". An air cyl. would work for a remote control.

Quote from: Ed_K on June 22, 2020, 08:52:48 AM
The activation cylinders are nothing more than wheel cylinders on a car. On the pressure side i don't think they travel more than 1 1/2". An air cyl. would work for a remote control.

Thanks a lot Ed K.   I know. 
I have found this. Which would be even simpler. 
http://www.mega-line.de/index.php/en/products/clutch (http://www.mega-line.de/index.php/en/products/clutch)
https://www.magnetimarelli.com/sites/default/files/SF_ECA_rev3.0_p_0.pdf
But that's all "racing" parts. That might be costly.  

I don't have air on the latil. 

An idea, i could power those cylinders with the power steering hydraulics. That would be more gentle than the huge 50 cc piston pump i plan on mounting for the different rams. 

Look into hydraulic "cutting brakes" for offroad trucks.  Summit and poly performance sell them.

Max, I don't know what pressure the power steering pump that you have is capable of but auto pumps have a 1200 psi standard, so be careful if that is what you decide to go with.

Thanks TacoTodd. 

Woult you do a top frame, or? 


(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/19153/IMG_20200713_180720.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1594666315)
 
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/19153/IMG_20200713_180734.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1594666313)
 
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/19153/IMG_20200713_180757.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1594666312)
 

Id move the roller as far forward as the winch driveline or cab would allow.  Then id probably stub the truck frame off right behind the shackle mounts and build a hydraulic buttplate with a ledge bottom to lift logs.  

I built a simple 3pt tractor winch with ripper teeth on the bottom edge of the butt plate that i find more useful than i expected in several ways.  I can winch in 3x more log than i can drag, and with the teeth dug into the dirt i dont need to set any brakes at all.  I leave the tractor in neutral, drop the plate and winch right to it without the tractor ever moving.  It will stall the winch but not budge the machine.

Having to rely on the friction of brakes and tires on mud would probably halve the total pulling capacity.




(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/43722/0705201932a.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1594011813)


Use the winch to reel logs to the plate then just hook the choker to a slot ontop, then fish out another.  The winch being just a foot further back makes a very big difference in leverage and wheelies.   I can winch in a lot, but not motor out as much if i use the cable so i switch the chokers to the plate when theyre winched in. 

I used C channel turned upright with torch grooves for the choker notches and it works great.  The teeth will break up dirt and gravels and steer a log backwards very well for decking a pile, but they can bite into them pretty agressively too.

A further thought, that truck is short and tall.  When it stands up, its gonna STAND RIGHT UP and be at serious risk of going over sideways or backwards.  With no cage that might be lethal.  I really sincerely encourage a hydraulic butt plate to minimize the chance of a tall wheelie going over.  On the tractor i come up the hill with the front end all the way in the air and steer with the cutting brakes but the butt plate limits the wheelie.  It cant go over backward.  You really need some sort of preventer for that.  



This is 4WS isnt it?  Whats the rating on the rear axle and tires?

Thanks a lot mike, for the reply.

I completely forgot to take a pic.

I have a deere 440B log basket.

You can see it on the third pic! 

Which i have bought with the winch and fairlead. I think this is as far back as i can go. I will cut the end of the chassis. I think i'll do something like a three point hitch for it.

Yes, the tractor is  four wheel drive, four wheel steer. It's not that high. Just has a huge cab.  And i remember what you said about the headache rack!

The old manual i have says:

With the 2 person cab.

3630kg total.

2210 on the front axle.

1420 kg on the rear axle.

Total charge on each of the axles

Front 6000kg

Back 6000kg.

So, 4580kg on the rear axle. Minus The fairlead, log basket, and some of the winch weight. May be a metric ton. (mind you, winch weight is spread somewhat between front and back)

So, 3580kg, at least. That's 7876 lbs.

I like the claws on your backplate.

Well, i was wondering if i was using the old subframe i had scavenged, or making a new one? 

Or bolting straight to the chassis? 


(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/19153/IMG_20190811_185039.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1565609482)

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/19153/IMG_20190811_185024.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1565609408)

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/19153/IMG_20190722_104353.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1563786575)

There still a fair bit of metal to remove if i want to use that, but i like the bits which go down, to make a three point hitch of some sort. 

I guess you did remove quite a bit of metal already.


I would only build a conventional "3 point" ag style hitch if i had attachments or serious plans for them.

True Mike. 

Since i have the AG PTO for this tractor. I was thinking, i coud fit sometimes a combine log splitter on the back. Mind you, if i carry on like this, this thing will never be finished!  :(

A 3 point is an awesome invention but versatility adds in some weakness.  The uniball ends need lots of clearance to work dry and they wear out and eventually tear apart.  Top links rip the threads out or fold, and the biggest issue i think you will have is they slap around side to side and must have chains and turn buckles to prevent it.  Well youll need a pretty serious turnbuckle to survive steering a hitch of logs when the bind up in a turn.  If you snap a turnbuckle or chain in the woods the lift arm is gonna go into the tire, atleast on a tractor, and itll rip a lug off.   Either way you cant move until its rechained and may not be able to rechain without hitching everything and driving out of it.

a 3 point means it can tilt relative to the chassis.  Depending on layout you may need heim ends on the cylinder(s) or theyll bend the rod.   My 3 point adventures have always involved some back to the drawing board moments.

I think a cheaper more sure recipe is a rigid 2 point mount with one or two conventional cylinders.  A skidder front blade layout is what id do.  No reason why you cant have pins and a pto shaft thruhole in that for future gadgets to hang off the butt plate.

Kind of back on this. 

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/19153/IMG_20200713_180720.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1594666315)

If i don't shorten anything, send back arbors towards the front or anything. 

I can fit PTO, reverser, winch  and roller fairlead into the whole length of the frame. 

I can't shorten it in this case.  It will look daft with the log basket behind, even if it's raising and lowering with hydraulics. I had hoped to place the fairlead where it is on the pic. 

What i fear is leverage. 

Any advice guys?