Limbing Cedar's

[Kwill]

Our farm is full of cedars. I've heard both good and bad on limbing them up head high or so. Some say limbing them will cause rot. So I figured I would ask here.

[Chop Shop]

Limby ones rot, clear one rot. Cedar just rots!

In all the time I have been cutting them there is no way to predict which ones are solid or why.

[Gearbox]

leave them for the Deer they need to eat to .

[Kwill]

Never seen a deer eat a cedar

[Gearbox]

It's what our deer live on in the winter when the weather gets bad .

[Kwill]

It's what our deer live on in the winter when the weather gets bad .

our deer don't have that problem

[OntarioAl]

Ah different type of cedar.
Our is White Cedar a true cedar (the deer gobble it up like candy).
A few years back the local conservation authority planted 6 ft. high white cedar one fall at The Mission Marsh Conservation Area by spring they all resembled Charlie Brown Christmas trees. They were replaced with  spruce
Al 

[WDH]

Y'all are talking two different types of cedar.  Deer will not eat eastern red cedar.  Deer will eat Northern white cedar.  Two completely different species.

[Southside]

But the Blue Birds like the berries on the reds!!

[bluthum]

Deer will eat eastern red cedar and when you do see that it is a sure sign of a decimated food supply.

[VirginiaFarm]

Here in eastern Virginia, we have a lot of ERC and holly in the underbrush. I have considered thinning both of these species out to make way for young oaks and poplars. I'm not very concerned about the wildlife dimension, as deer are a nuisance and the quail and turkeys prefer our open pasture and hedgerows. Any benefit to leaving the holly and cedars? Perhaps they provide a windbreak for the more desirable and marketable species in this hurricane-vulnerable area? I prefer the cedar, but the holly is just everywhere.

[mike_belben]

Deer eating woody browse is a sign theyre definitely starving and your region needs more light and possibly controlled burn to produce leafy vegetation.   I have seen bucks take a special preference for rubbing on 1" diameter ERC but never eating it.  They also like to prong into sourwood for some reason.  If you want to feed them an alternative to a tree you want to keep, coppice your small junky soft maple, gums, and sourwood.  Also promote pokeweed, greenbriar and any wild berry brambles you can so they eat that instead.  Never seen them touch holly. 

If you have too many deer get a bigger freezer and put some in it. 

[Southside]

Here in eastern Virginia, we have a lot of ERC and holly in the underbrush. I have considered thinning both of these species out to make way for young oaks and poplars. I'm not very concerned about the wildlife dimension, as deer are a nuisance and the quail and turkeys prefer our open pasture and hedgerows. Any benefit to leaving the holly and cedars? Perhaps they provide a windbreak for the more desirable and marketable species in this hurricane-vulnerable area? I prefer the cedar, but the holly is just everywhere.

I think you would find that the deer, turkey, and quail get a lot of benefit from the transition area between forest and pasture ground.  A wide open pasture in July does not offer much in terms of food or predator protection for a turkey poult.  Personally I have seen turkeys jump up and eat berries off holly trees and the cedars offer good cover for rabbits and other small game - at least it gives them a place to run to when the hawks come swooping in. 

[Resonator]

Quote: "If you have too many deer get a bigger freezer and put some in it."    :D ;D

[Kwill]

Limby ones rot, clear one rot. Cedar just rots!

In all the time I have been cutting them there is no way to predict which ones are solid or why.

the ones on our place don't seem to have that problem

[Kwill]

/quote] we got plenty of multaflora rose bushes for them to hide in.

[nativewolf]

Deer in SW VA will browse ERC all winter, can't use them for Christmas trees unless it is tall enough to get a tree from the part above the deer browse.  I'll take a picture next time I am in Rich Valley.   

[Ianab]

If you are going to limb, do it on smaller, young and vigorous trees that are growing well. This way the branches you are taking off will be smaller, the stubs will seal over faster, and the tree will then lay down clear wood on that section of the tree. Do it in couple of stages, so you end up with a clear saw log in the future. If you only lift prune to 5 ft, then you will run into knots after that point, and you don't get the clear boards that would make it worthwhile. You might initially end up with what looks like a Christmas tree on top of a 10ft post, but as the tree continues to grow that 10ft post will gradually turn into a clear 10ft saw log (with a normal knotty cedar tree on top of that)

Basically you are forcing the process where a forest tree would naturally shed lower branches to form a clear trunk. Cedars tend to be slow at doing this, and hang onto those useless lower branches much longer than you would like.

Pruning an older tree is basically a waste of time, the knots are already in the wood, and large branches take a long time to heal over, meaning rot can get a foothold in the tree, which is likely to be starting to rot from the inside anyway.

[TKehl]

I don't see evidence of rot in ones I've limbed.  Only can go back about 20 years on what I've done though... 

Some trees grandpa laid out had the sapwood rot off, but I'm still kicking up cedar heartwood along that fenceline.  He died in 1994...  I could maybe see an old cedar have a sapwood hole rot out, but not something I'd worry about.

It does seem that big old ERC will get heart rot more often than not around my area.  Doubt it's related to limbing though.

As for deer.  My goats ate red cedar bark and needles the winter before I figured out protein licks and how much mineral they need.   : 

The goats will still nibble on cedar occasionally.  The low limbs where they hang out look scraggly, but still growing.  Don't know if it's just curiosity, some trace mineral, or what.

[47sawdust]

Here in Vermont the deer will go out on the frozen ponds and lakes to browse the white cedars.From a distance the trees look perfectly trimmed.

[snowstorm]

deer love cedar i have seen them eat fir tops but if there is a cedar with in a mile they will get it

[mike_belben]

I went antler hunting and moved some cameras around the other day.  Found that i had a doe or two move down a travel corridor i recently created, which leads to a gnarly swamp thicket i created for fawning, right near my fence where my scent tends to keep coyotes off.  Anyways every hardwood species i have was hingecut to stay alive yet put browse at ground level for winter feeding.  Sourwood was the only species nibbled on. Yet with coppice sprouts, ive noted by year two they favor maple completely over sourwood. And gum over maple.

   Its just an observation but it tends to make me see sourwood as a good tree for hingecutting to create cover, shelter and trail redirects, while lopping off atleast a portion of the maple and gum sappling to make sprouts which provide a ton of bushy spring and summer feed plus low level cover.  All at same time as TSI for hardwood production.  Kinda fun.

[TKehl]

Up here there is no Sourwood or Gum and barely any Maple to speak of.  My goats and deer do go nuts for Elm, Hackberry, Hedge, and Mulberry.  Hinge cuts work best on the first two.  Works fine on Hedge and Mulberry as well, but I end up with a tangled knarly mess from aggressive resprouting.   :( 

Also helps that Elm and Hackberry are some of the lowest value trees in my woods.   ;)