Seeking source for education in "sound" bandsaw mill design and construction.

[mike_belben]

Keep an eye out for scrapped or cheap/broken metal bandsaws.. The old american ones are stout and heavy.  Do-all, Kalamazoo, Amada, rockwell delta, dake, wilton, marvel and greenlee should cover the best of them.  

[Southside]

A Tannewitz with 36" wheels will wipe the floor with about any other band saw out there.  

[MikeySP]

Great info men! So a metal bandsaw may have the right wheels. I know I used to have a tiny bottom line JET metal bandsaw that had ridges on the wheels, but I guess that is not normative for the larger industrial types.

Question Southside Logger: will my 44HP Diesel be able to effectively power 36" wheels?

Curious as I am not married to any design yet aside from hydraulics, band sawmill, and 44HP diesel as I have these already. I say this because 36" wheels would create a problem an oversize load or very small log diameter limit in a mobile mill.

Question: does space between wheels slow down cutting speed to maintain straight boards?



 

[Ljohnsaw]

The space (or capacity) between the wheels does not affect the cutting speed.  The actual width of the wood that you are cutting may dictate a slower cutting speed.  As does the hardness of the wood, the number of the knots and the craziness of the grain.  And, of course, the sharpness of the blade (has the greatest influence, IMO).  Now, for a longer blade (i.e. distance between guides), you will have to keep the blade tight(er) to help it track better (not dive) in the wood.  To combat the rigidness need, a wider blade can be used.  But that, in turn, requires more tension, which requires more stout build, and on and on.

[MikeySP]

Great, once I figure and find wheels, I will bring this topic up again.

[Southside]

will my 44HP Diesel be able to effectively power 36" wheels?

The couple Tannewitz I have been around usually had a 5hp - 7.5hp 3 phase motor on them, so yes you will have plenty of torque.  The difference will be material feed rate, that smaller motor can only be fed so fast before it would begin to negatively impact cut quality as it would bog down the motor if fed too fast.  I think the Bakers run 36" wheels too.

[Banjo picker]

Big wheels and wide cuts = expensive blades.  My bands are 1 1/2 inch wide and a little over 17 feet long.  I pay close to $30.00 for them.  I am told some can get bands for about $13.00 for some mills.  Just something to think about if you are building a mill.  Banjo

[MikeySP]

Banjo, thank you so much for chiming in with that.

This is a very important consideration. The further I go, it seems each decision seems to come with costs/compromises.  I think the man who knows exactly what he will use his saw for has an advantage as he can have his NEEDS defined. Making a sawmill that will do-all, will prove costly in design and operation if it is not used to it's capabilities.

[mike_belben]

Attempting to do it all is almost never profitable in my experience. I do it all.. Everything except make money.  Im the logger sawyer landscaper wood splitter dishwasher accountant plumber soccer mom truck driver equipment operator builder roofer painter mechanic electrician dental hygenist gardener cook secretary and therapist.  Cant make a dang cent that way, theres always 25 more probono projects in line before one that pays.

Pick a thing that makes money and do the thing.  Dont venture outside that tract until the thing that pays is paying too much and needs deductions to offset income from taxation. That may or may not ever occur.   

To narrow that to sawing, there is no way to be efficient in every apect on one single machine if you are aiming to make slabs, pallets, flooring, ties and staves.  A stave resaw or scrag mill wont make table slabs and youll die of starvation trying to do pallet slats on a chainsaw slabber.  Youve got to pick your product and build the machine to suit that.  Build another machine if you move in a majorly diifferent direction. 

[Crusarius]

I started out building a mill to cut a 36" log 22' long. Which I was successful doing. I ended up with 31" between the guides. Did I need to be able to do 36"? probably not. The biggest I have done so far is 22". Do I wish i had the capability of a wider cut. Yes. But only when doing crotches.

I may end up making my mill a dual width so I can run the standard 158" blade for most of my sawing and then a 176" for the crotches. 

I stopped trying to design to do everything I wanted to do, and started looking around and settled for what I need to do. It is still above and beyond what I need, but I am a fond believer of doing it right the first time.

Moral of the story is overbuild, but not to much. 

[Ljohnsaw]

I may end up making my mill a dual width so I can run the standard 158" blade for most of my sawing and then a 176" for the crotches.

Hmm, my tag line says "Home Built 42" capacity/32" cut Bandmill up to 54' long".  I'm using "standard" 184" bands on 21/22" tires.  I say standard because that is what WM has in stock, not special order.  Actually , I think they are more like 183.75" for the 210 teeth to come out even.

What size wheels did you end up using to get the cut capacity with that short of a blade?

[Crusarius]

19" wheels. I basically placed the guides perpendicular to the edge of the wheel to give me the widest cut I could do between the wheels. If my math is right I can add another 9" width switching to a 176 blade. But the 176 cost a good deal more.

[Ljohnsaw]

Yes, your math is correct with the longer blade.  But, If I do the math with 19" wheels, you have 49" where the blade leaves the wheels at the bottom.  If you look at the distance between the wheels, that is ~ 30".  But your guides can be tucked up under the wheels a little so you *should* be able to get ~35-38" with the 158" blade.  You would only be able to make 1 or 2 slabs before you would have to remove them from the mill.

My 184" blades (1¼") come in a 15 pack for $345 and free shipping, IIRC.  That's $23/blade (well, plus tax).

[Crusarius]

With the radius of the wheels I would only be able to do thin boards. I chose to make the flush with the radius so I would never get into a situation I started a cut then could not get past a certain point because of interference. I thought about making them wider but decided it was better not to. Part of the reason I am still contemplating a dual width setup.

Maybe on V2.0?

I just paid little over 18 a blade. that adds up quick.

[boardmaker]

Just wanted to pop in here and tell you Crusarius, that you have a great looking mill.  Somehow yours slipped through the cracks and I don't remember seeing it.

[Crusarius]

Thanks boardmaker. it is still a work in progress. I really need to get the thread caught up on the latest things I have done.

[MikeySP]

Very good. What is a dual width sawmill? I came up with nothing searching for it. Obviously, I assume it can be set to two different sizes. Does this mean a telescoping main beam the separates the two band-wheels? Is there a good example of one that is manufactured? or homebuilt?

[Crusarius]

I dunno about any of that but I was going to make an extension for my hydrauilc tensioning ram and a longer sawframe. That will give me the ability to set it to a 158" blade length or for a 176" blade length.

I am not sure I want to stock both blades though. but most of the time I do not need the extra width the 176 would give me. Plus the cost of the 158 is more tolerable for a hobby guy.

[Southside]

There is a guy on YouTube who made his LT40 adjustable. I think it's titled something along the lines of "I cut my sawmill in half". He did a great job on it.

[Crusarius]

he is on this forum. I forgot his name but he made it wider not adjustable.

[Southside]

I thought he could use either width?

[mike_belben]

Yeah, he made his C frame telescope into normal or wide mode.  Its bolted into one position ornthe other with a big aluminum post inserted into the cut tube. 

[MikeySP]

I did see a video of a guy with a woodmizer who runs a pretty nice slab sawing operation, in Canada I think. 

Looks like I found a serious size bandsaw with 30" wheels. 

Looks like a small house this thing is so big. May be headed up to St. Louis for it. Will have to bring my sunshine (daughter) for a homeschool field trip to the zoo.  I think this may allow me to salvage other mechanisms for tensioning, bearings, axles, etc..???

[massmanute]

there is a guy that goes by the name of Texas Ben that has a set of plans on EBay that are good plans they are easy to follow and make adjustment to fit your needs. He has a YouTube channel that show his mill in operation there is a few on here that used his plans. I used them to build my mill. It will cut accurate I added power to the head to move it up and down and for power feed. If you have to buy most of the metal form my own experience you can buy the LT15 for about the price of  metal and parts. But building it yourself is a rewarding experience. I found this sight after I built mine and made a lot of mistakes. There is a thread here that talks about different mod on sawmills read it then read it again you before you build. It will save you a lot of time and make your mill easier to use. Best to you on your build.

I bought a copy of Texas Ben's plans. I have not built a mill, but the plans look good to me, with a lot of explanatory information, some figures, and some videos.

[JB Griffin]

It don't take much power to turn wheels. What takes torque is keepin em going. Bigger wheel (read heavy) act and work like flywheels storing energy. 

Baker Dominators run 36" bandwheels and a 240" blade. A 240"x 2"x .055" Kasco 7/40 costs about $42 iirc.