Butcherblock Island Top ( Update bug problems )

[21incher]

After not having internet service for several months I am finally back. This is how I made a Maple top for my island with backyard wood.


 
I started by cutting, jointing and planning all the strips. I used hard maple strips from 9/16" to 1 1/2" thick and glued up sections that were under 8" wide


 
I used Titebond III and It was quite messy. I could only find pint bottles and the 4 bottles of glue turned out being the most expensive part of the job.


 
Next I jointed the sections flat and planed them to the final thickness. This is where the spiral cutter on my jointer paid off. The jointer cutters survived with no damage, but the steel blades on my planer developed some nicks from the hardened glue and had to be shifted after I was done.


 
I then glued the 7 smaller sections together after jointing the edges and had a nice flat top.


 
I trimmed the edges with a router and made a template to round the corners after rough cutting them with a jigsaw.


 
I then gave it 4 coats of water base poly on all sides


 


 
The finished top installed. The only problem is I am not completely happy with the finish. This is the first time I have used water based poly and after installing the top I wet sanded it with 600 grit and then tried to rub it with pumice and rotten stone as I have always done with the solvent based poly to get a perfect finish. The water based stuff wound up with dull spots that can not be polished out and I most likely have to strip it and refinish it with something else in the future. After nearly 4 months away it looks like I have a lot of reading to catch up on the forum. 

[thecfarm]

Good to see you back. Nice job by the way!!

[cbla]

21incher,real nice job looks beautiful

[Magicman]

Welcome back.  That island top is "knock your eyes out" pretty.   8)

[WmFritz]

Very nice!

[WDH]

Wow!!!!!  I love it.  I also like the spalt on the edge.  Really catches the eye.  BTW, that is an awesome jointer.  That is one cool top.  I want to make one like that. 

[Bill Gaiche]

That is SUPER nice. I have used water based poly also, and I don't like the finish either. Learned that on red oak and ERC. bg

[POSTON WIDEHEAD]

Show off!  :D I couldn't build that if I tried. That is w a y beautiful. 

[21incher]

Thanks everyone. I am in the process of making 2 more matching counter tops and need to find a good finish to try on them.

Wow!!!!!  I love it.  I also like the spalt on the edge.  Really catches the eye.  BTW, that is an awesome jointer.  That is one cool top.  I want to make one like that. 

The jointer made the job real easy and the top came out perfectly flat. That was one of the jobs that justified purchasing it.

[mikeb1079]

great job.  looks fantastic. 

i too recently built an island top of hard maple and used water based poly.  not very happy with it either.  i believe i did 4 coats as well.  doesn't look quite right to my eye and hasn't been holding up as well as i'd like.   :(

[LeeB]

Try putting down a coat of shellac before the water based poly. You'll get the color like an oil finish, still have quick drying time, and the protection of a poly finish.

[SwampDonkey]

Beautiful top, love the wood choice.  ;D

Stick around. 

[lowpolyjoe]

Beautiful!

[flatrock58]

Beautiful island.  Looks like a little spalted maple on the edge.

[drobertson]

Real nice top! you made that job look easy,,

[1938farmall]

made one very similar out of red oak with regular titebond glue & 3 coats oil poly.  it has held up very well for 26 years.  on final glue-up use "winding sticks" to get top reasonably flat or use the actual base for a glue-up table.

[WDH]

I like the way that you laid out the strips.  Perfect.

[21incher]

made one very similar out of red oak with regular titebond glue & 3 coats oil poly.  it has held up very well for 26 years.  on final glue-up use "winding sticks" to get top reasonably flat or use the actual base for a glue-up table.

I bought some of the oil base poly today and plan on refinishing it as soon as it warms up enough to refinish it outside. I thought I would try using the water base stuff because my shop is in my basement and I wanted to avoid stinking up the house with the oil base fumes in the winter. I thought all polyurethane hardened the same but after this experience will never use the water base one again. I had no problem with flatness and just had to place a clamp on each end until the bar clamps were tightened. I only glued up one section at a time to get perfect alignment plus the jointer got everything real square and flat to make the job easier.

[21incher]

I like the way that you laid out the strips.  Perfect.

Thanks. It took about a hour just to arrange all the different thickness and color strips to make it look balanced.

[21incher]

This is the start of the short counters that I am working on now.


 


 

[mesquite buckeye]

Cool. 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) ;D

[giant splinter]

Way cool and I really like the cantilevered end where the chairs are

[5quarter]

Great job! I've built several tops similar to the way you built yours. The one I built for my own kitchen I finished using a 2 part urethane. It can take very high temps without blistering and is practically indestructible. very expensive though and requires spray equipment. for finishes applied by hand, oil based poly is probably the best choice (for light colored woods). Water based poly is inferior in almost every way to its oil based counterpart. I suspect it is still on the market as the token user friendly finish. ;)  I do occasionally use it when doing a job in an office building as the fumes are much less caustic than the solvent based finishes.

[21incher]

Thanks 5quarter. I will have to look into the 2 part urethane in the future. Is that the same as clear coat urethane automotive finish? Do you apply it with a HVLP gun?

[Darrel]

WOW!!!

[21incher]

Today I finished the 2 remaining maple tops for by my fridge. They were made the same as the large top, but this time the finish was oil based poly. What a difference in the results. They came out a much warmer color and I was able to rub them to a great looking high quality finish.


 
To bad the microwave will hide most of this side.


 
My wife wanted a little more counter space so I made this counter 6 inches wider then the original one and will be making a wine rack to mount under the overhang.


 
Turned out to be a nice upgrade from the 25 year old Formica tops.


    
This is my helper and she approves of the new tops

[tule peak timber]

Very nice ! 8) 8) 8)

[LeeB]

You'll have to make a plant stand too.

[21incher]

You'll have to make a plant stand too.

That plant is sitting on a 12" high plant stand I made. Just needs a trimming, it grows like a weed.

[WDH]

Those are beautiful countertops. 

[21incher]

Well 8 months later we just noticed holes starting to appear in one of the boards.

 


 
Looks like we have bug issues that arose from using air dried wood. It is all in one slat of the top with no sawdust present. Looks like someone took a drill to the top. I am wondering if anyone knows a safe way to kill the critters that has low toxicity?  Lesson learned, build a kiln.

[POSTON WIDEHEAD]

You may be able to spray the boards with TIMBOR. This is what I use.
WDH will know.

[WDH]

Oooh, that is too bad.  Try Bora-Care.

http://nisuscorp.com/builders/products/BORA-CARE

[Dodgy Loner]

Looks like we have bug issues that arose from using air dried wood. It is all in one slat of the top with no sawdust present. Looks like someone took a drill to the top. I am wondering if anyone knows a safe way to kill the critters that has low toxicity?  Lesson learned, build a kiln.

That stinks. I don't use any kiln-dried wood, but I have taken to treating all PPB-susceptible woods with borate to prevent infestation. There's nothing more disheartening than planing some prime maple lumber and finding it riddled with beetle holes. So far the borate treatment has proven very effective (and it's much cheaper than a kiln).

Maple, hickory, red oak, poplar, birch, and any other light-colored hardwood get treated. Cherry, walnut, white oak and other dark-colored hardwoods may get PPB in the sapwood, but the heartwood stops them in their tracks. Softwoods can get PPB as well, but it's a different species than the bug that affects hardwoods, and I haven't found it to be problematic. Good luck - and great job on the countertops, since I didn't get a chance to tell you when you first posted pictures!

[petefrom bearswamp]

It looked soooo beautiful,
Bummer about the ppb holes
I have been fortunate so far with my modest inventory of air dried hardwoods, maple cherry ash and a few others so far but will have to check the stacks.
Dodgy, Would it be cost prohibitive to treat my 3-4 mbf of lumber with borate?

[Dodgy Loner]

It looked soooo beautiful,
Bummer about the ppb holes
I have been fortunate so far with my modest inventory of air dried hardwoods, maple cherry ash and a few others so far but will have to check the stacks.
Dodgy, Would it be cost prohibitive to treat my 3-4 mbf of lumber with borate?

No, I think it would be quite reasonable, actually (especially compared to the value of the lumber that you're protecting). What will be the bigger issue is the labor involved. I spray after sawing and before stickering. If you have lumber that's already dry, you'll need to sticker it again, because you can't stack with the wet surfaces or you'll get mold. Borate treatment has been discussed many times in the sawmilling section, but the gist of it is: it's much cheaper if you buy it in bulk; mix up 1-1.5 lb/gallon of water, dissolve it well (hot water helps or else it can take a while); spray with a generous, even coat on all faces, edges, and ends; let it dry. It's a pretty effective low-tech, low-cost method for bug prevention.

[lowpolyjoe]

 :(

[scsmith42]

Personally I would use heat to sterilize the wood instead of Bora-care.  Heat is 100% effective, and you don't have to get it hot enough to melt the glue.  Also no residue in the wood.

I have an article that came from FWW magazine a few years back that details how to build a simple, inexpensive sterilization chamber for projects such as this.  If you send me your e-mail address via PM, I'll forward it to you.

[21incher]

Thanks for the replies. Sounds like I had better start treating my lumber from now on. I am hoping it is just happening in that one board and the layer of tightbond will keep it contained so I can cut it out and replace it. I am so glad I have not used any of that maple to make gifts for others. Most of the sprays seem to contain borax, so I took some of my wifes 7 mule team borax and poked it in the holes with a tooth pick and then wet it with a sponge and hopefully this will stop them without having to spend $70.00 for a gallon of spray.
This issue got me thinking about building a 2 foot square x 6 feet long insulated box with a electric element and temperature controller in it to heat treat all my project lumber after roughing it out. I guess I was extremely lucky to get away with using untreated air dried lumber untill now.

[hackberry jake]

I have seen ppb holes in Cherry, white oak, and walnut heartwood as well. The walnut was some previously kiln dry lumber that I bought at an auction (stored in barn for years). Most of the sapwood had turned to chalk. The heartwood was intact on over 90% of the boards, but a few of the boards must've came from a sugary tree or something.

[YellowHammer]

I hate to see that, the bugs have no respect and that piece was a work of art.  Timbor, relatively cheap, is great for treating rough sawn green wood, and Boracare, significantly more expensive, is best for infested wood.  Spraying green wood off the mill is easy and OK fast with an inexpensive 25 gallon diaphragm pump powered ag sprayer. 

Heat is 100% guaranteed.  I couldn't tell you how many supposedly "bug free" loads I have put in my kilns only to find fried, dead PPB beetles littering the tops of the boards after the sterilization cycle.  I've also had carpenter bees, spiders, and melted snakes on the kiln floor, too. 

Good luck and kill em all.  I hate bugs in wood.   

[Dodgy Loner]

I have seen ppb holes in Cherry, white oak, and walnut heartwood as well. The walnut was some previously kiln dry lumber that I bought at an auction (stored in barn for years). Most of the sapwood had turned to chalk. The heartwood was intact on over 90% of the boards, but a few of the boards must've came from a sugary tree or something.

Oh, I've seen it too. But it's not something that I worry too much about. Typically what you'll see is the holes going down into the would, then they make a 90* turn and just follow the sapwood/heartwood border once they hit the heartwood. But if 90% of your sapwood is bug-ridden, there will inevitably be some hardy specimens that gave the heartwood a try as well.

You raise a good point, too: kiln-drying kills what's already there, but it doesn't do a darn thing to stop critters for coming in for a meal after the fact. If the wood lays around unfinished for a few years after kiln-drying, or if it's improperly stored, it's just as likely to have critters as air-dried.

[Dodgy Loner]

Thanks for the replies. Sounds like I had better start treating my lumber from now on. I am hoping it is just happening in that one board and the layer of tightbond will keep it contained so I can cut it out and replace it. I am so glad I have not used any of that maple to make gifts for others. Most of the sprays seem to contain borax, so I took some of my wifes 7 mule team borax and poked it in the holes with a tooth pick and then wet it with a sponge and hopefully this will stop them without having to spend $70.00 for a gallon of spray.
This issue got me thinking about building a 2 foot square x 6 feet long insulated box with a electric element and temperature controller in it to heat treat all my project lumber after roughing it out. I guess I was extremely lucky to get away with using untreated air dried lumber untill now.

Borax is the exact same stuff as Timbor: sodium tetraborate. The bigger issue with any borate treatment is that it's more effective at preventing the infestation than stopping an existing infestation. Once the bugs are in the wood, it's tough to get the borate down to them.

I don't get too worried about using untreated air-dried lumber. I've used lots of it over the years without much of an issue; still using it, in fact. It's just an extra layer of precaution to treat with borate. Don't fall into the trap of thinking that suddenly all of your lumber has to be kiln-dried. It ain't so.

[Kbeitz]

Hummm.... I see a fine Grizzly tool in this posting...

[petefrom bearswamp]

dang!
Just made 5 Ash table leaves from some of my FAS Ash which has been in my pole barn for a few years and found pp holes in one board.
Wont know how much is affected unless I go thru the stacks of lumber about 3-4 mbf.
Also is difficult to see in rough cut.
I have maple, cherry, ash, a little elm and a very little walnut.
most has been stacked for at least 4 yrs as i dont sell much hardwood lumber.
The maple is 98 percent sapwood, the rest 98 percent heartwood.
Are some species more susceptible than others to ppb?

[21incher]

Hummm.... I see a fine Grizzly tool in this posting...

Hopefully I will add a Grizzly spiral head planer to my shop in the future also. I have given that spiral head a pretty good beating and it still cuts like new.

Pete when I made the tops I didn't see any signs of borers. 6 months later the holes started to appear so I don't know if they laid dormant in the lumber, or hatched after it was finished. I only see damage in the 1 strip and checked  all the other maple from that batch in my shop and see no other signs of borers. I have seen signs of them in walnut sapwood and wonder if they may have come from a peice of walnut in my shop.  if you sell any of that ash you may want to tell the customer to heat treat it before using it.

[WDH]

They can lie dormant for several years  . 

[petefrom bearswamp]

WDH didnt want to hear that.

[DPForumDog]

Oh no!  We just recently finished a built in vanity out of red oak that we had just let air dry.    Now after reading this thread I am worried about borers and mold getting in the AC vents and duct work.

It was suggested that the original poster spray his boards with TIMBOR or treat with Bora-Care.   Would this work on my red oak vanity even though its already stained?

We see no evidence but I read the borers can lay dormant for years.   Will they continue to eat the furniture?  Will they spread to the walls and stud?   

Also it was said that airdryed lumber could cause mold in the central heat air units.   Can anyone speak to that.

Hopefully both of these things are rare.

Thanks for any information.
Granny DP

[WDH]

I have never had a mold problem from air dried lumber used in furniture that I have built. I would not worry about that. 

[terrifictimbersllc]

Oh no!  We just recently finished a built in vanity out of red oak that we had just let air dry.    Now after reading this thread I am worried about borers and mold getting in the AC vents and duct work.

It was suggested that the original poster spray his boards with TIMBOR or treat with Bora-Care.   Would this work on my red oak vanity even though its already stained?

We see no evidence but I read the borers can lay dormant for years.   Will they continue to eat the furniture?  Will they spread to the walls and stud?   

Also it was said that airdryed lumber could cause mold in the central heat air units.   Can anyone speak to that.

Hopefully both of these things are rare.

Thanks for any information.
Granny DP

Do you have borers in the wood?  Even if, chances are they'll leave because the wood will further dry and become completely inhospitable to them.  They won't infest your house structure because that wood is too dry and also most of it is softwood. 

[21incher]

I will say that if there is a problem with borers they are tough to get rid of. I tried the borax solution and bug spray many times and a new hole would just pop up a couple of inches away in a couple of days. Seems like they only move into new wood and must fill the tunnel behind them  for protection plus having a finish on the wood does not allow it to penetrate in areas that are not affected yet. I hate to admit the way that I finally stopped them, but I took a can of WD40 with one of those little spray tubes on it and sprayed it into each of the 43 holes untill the pressure pushed it out other holes. Lucky the tightbond glue isolated them to just 1 strip that will be replaced in the future. It is amazing how something so small can cause so much damage

[DPForumDog]

Thanks,  Yall make me feel better.     
The Vanity is at our country place and its hard to tell if there are any borer holes because I stained it dark, but I am going to take a flashlight and look for those little buger hole the next time we are there.

I told my husband... no more air drying.  We are getting/making/building  a kiln that will hold at 13 ft long pieces and reach at least 130 to kill those little critters.   I havent seen any yet and I am going to try my darndest to keep them away from my wood.

Thanks again,
Granny

[bkaimwood]

Good idea Granny...but increase your temp to 150-160 for 24 hrs

[samandothers]

If you build a kiln or chamber to heat the wood do a thread on it.  I'd appreciate ideas. 

[terrifictimbersllc]

I would also like to see a successful design.  And what fan(s) were used for circulation

If I remember correctly  the heat requirements for killing powder post beetle eggs/larvae is 145 degrees F for 24 hours or 160 degrees F for 3 hours. 

And this should be the core temperature of the wood, not just the temp somewhere in the box. 

Unless there is vigorous air circulation within the box, the temperature at the bottom of the box can be far off from the top of the box and the wood may not heat up to the necessary temperature