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Setup/ Leveling question

Started by MobileSawmillNJ, December 11, 2014, 10:35:10 AM

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MobileSawmillNJ

When setting up our TK2000 at a mobile job, or in our yard, for that matter, we have always made sure the entire weight of the mill was on the 6 jack-stands, and that the tires were completely off the ground and able to spin freely, even when a log is on the deck.  However, at a show recently, I saw a Woodmizer machine with the wheels firmly planted on the ground, in addition to the jack-stands.  Just curious to know what the general consensus is for achieving the best quality cuts when setting up a portable mill.  Thanks...
Anthony

uler3161

We always put something under the tires so that the tires also support weight. I'd be somewhat concerned about having a large log roll against the backstops and not having the operator side tire providing the extra support when it rocks the mill. I'm not sure it would make any difference on cut quality, but I don't know because we never cut without support under the tire.
1989 LT40HD, WoodMaster 718

Dan

backwoods sawyer

My Cooks mill ran for 6 years with out any wheels just sitting on its legs.

The WM stiff frame sits on its legs just fine in all sorts of portable locations. When i set up on asphault the weight is off the wheels when I get the mill positioned to allow the loading arm legs to sit flat on the ground.

Some like to have weight on the wheels, I don't get to concerned about it unless one wheel is up and one down when on side hills, then I raise the mill another click to get the up presure off that side.

Down side to setting up with to much wheel weight is the legs want to walk around as the springs want to lift the mill as the saw head passes back and forth.

All legs need to be evenly suporting the mill that is there sole purpose.

Wheels were designed for transport but can be used to some degree as a comfort but the whole axel can also be pulled out with out any issues.

Backwoods Custom Milling Inc.
100% portable. . Oregons largest portable sawmill service, serving all of Oregon, from our Backwoods to yours..sawing since 1991

drobertson

Not sure either, my mill normally sits with the dust side wheel off the ground, mainly from what I've found that if weight is on this wheel I can't saw down to 1" without the feed motor contacting it as it passes through the log.  Other than that I figure either way would work so long as the mill is level and stable.  there is some travel in the leaf springs so if most of the weight is off then a stable set up should be there.
only have a few chain saws I'm not suppose to use, but will at times, one dog Dolly, pretty good dog, just not sure what for yet,  working on getting the gardening back in order, and kinda thinking on maybe a small bbq bizz,  thinking about it,

Chuck White

Quote from: drobertson on December 11, 2014, 12:07:31 PM
Not sure either, my mill normally sits with the dust side wheel off the ground, mainly from what I've found that if weight is on this wheel I can't saw down to 1" without the feed motor contacting it as it passes through the log.  Other than that I figure either way would work so long as the mill is level and stable.  there is some travel in the leaf springs so if most of the weight is off then a stable set up should be there.

I didn't realize that could be a problem.

No issues with my mill. 

If you have the operator-side wheel off the ground and a logs hits the uprights, it could tip the mill over.  Go ahead and ask me how I know!

Well, I'll tell you anyway!  I was using my FIL's LT40G18, manual mill, back in '06 and the operator-side wheel was about 6" off the ground (due to uneven ground) and we loaded a 14"(or so) White Pine log onto the bed and when it hit the uprights (and not with a lot of force either) the mill tipped, and if we hadn't been paying close attention, that mill would have ended up on it's side.

When you set up a Wood-Mizer, mobile, at the least, please have the tires at least touching the ground, for your safety and the safety of the mill.

Setting up stationary is a whole different issue.
~Chuck~  Cooks Cat Claw sharpener and single tooth setter.  2018 Chevy Silverado and 2021 Subaru Ascent.
With basic mechanical skills and the ability to read you can maintain a Woodmizer  LT40!

MobileSawmillNJ

I have no problem with tipping, and I have had numerous large, heavy oak logs accidentally bounce too hard against the stops.  The worst that has happened is that it would shift the mill off the wood blocks that the jacks rest on, and we would then have to remove the log, re-set the mill, and level it again. 

My real question has to do with what Backwoods Sawyer said about the springs taking up some of the tension, and causing the deck to flex or walk slightly.  At the same time though, I don't want to be giving up extra support via the tires if that is in fact what they would provide if they were in solid contact with the ground...


Dave Shepard

Your TK may not respond the same way a WM does. When setting up my LT40, you are supposed to put more tension on the end jacks, as there is a camber along the length of a WM bed. By leaving the middle jacks slack, the weight of a log, or even just the head, will flatten out the camber, giving you a straight cut. You do not jack a WM way off the ground, unless the terrain dictates. Simply putting some of the weight on the end jacks is all that is needed.
Wood-Mizer LT40HDD51-WR Wireless, Kubota L48, Honda Rincon 650, TJ208 G-S, and a 60"LogRite!

backwoods sawyer

The closest I have came to tipping the mill over was when I was setup along a river on real sandy level ground (both tires were solidly on the ground). The log was a 16' 38" doug fir. The mill was set up on 1x6x8's. When loading the log the ends if feet on the loading arms sunk in but the log loaded, had made the first opening cut and was turning the log when the mill shifted off two of the 1x6's on the back side and those legs sunk in the ground, the log went over the log turner as it was at a low angle, the log rolled onto the loading arms, the feet sunk deeper buckling the mill up at about a 30* then the log left the loading arms and rolled about 10' feet away. Dug the feet on the loading arms out so the mill would settle back down.
I now use 1x12x12 to set the mill on when the ground is soft.
Backwoods Custom Milling Inc.
100% portable. . Oregons largest portable sawmill service, serving all of Oregon, from our Backwoods to yours..sawing since 1991

manoverboard

I recently set my TK2000 on the side of a rolling hill. I had to dig out under the wheels as the compression was making it difficult to level. I honestly felt the mill was sturdy enough that I did not have any worries loading the bigger logs while both wheels were not taking any weight. 
TimberKing 2000, 35hp Diesel, Kubota L3800 w/loader

Ga Mtn Man

On a two-rail mill like the TK2000, the end jacks should be extended so that there is a slight droop in the middle of the mill.  This lets you know you have taken some of the weight off of the wheels.  Then extend the center jacks to straighten the mill bed.  Use a string line to check that the mill is flat if you're going to be cutting long lumber (a level isn't the right tool for this IMO).
"If the women don't find you handsome they should at least find you handy." - Red Green


2012 LT40HDG29 with "Superized" hydraulics,  2 LogRite cant hooks, home-built log arch.

kelLOGg

I like my wheels on the ground for more stability. Years ago I added swinging boom loader that slides in (for travel) and out (for sawing).  It adds a couple hundred lbs to its side of the mill so I don't want to risk a heavy log tipping it over.

With the wheels on the ground I once did get a flat face on the tire from sitting too long.
Bob
Cook's MP-32, 20HP, 20' (modified w/ power feed, up/down, loader/turner)
DH kiln, CatClaw setter and sharpener, tandem trailer, log arch, tractor, thumb tacks

Peter Drouin

I leave the wheels on the ground. That said, I will not set the mill up on bad ground. If it's flat and I can put the mill there with my truck where good.


  

  

  

  

 
Here I had the customer move the logs out of the hole and bring them to the mill.


  

 
Sometimes I have to move the mill up  :D :D :D


  

 
To give the newbies how to set up a mill.  ;D
A&P saw Mill LLC.
45' of Wood Mizer, cutting since 1987.
License NH softwood grader.

ladylake

 It's totally unnecessary to have the wheels off the ground, make sure to have good pressure on the front and back jacks then crank the middle ones until they touch and add 2 more turns.  Keep it level or close side too side, end to end can be up or down hill just so long as the head doesn't roll by itself .  Steve
Timberking B20  18000  hours +  Case75xt grapple + forks+8" snow bucket + dirt bucket   770 Oliver   Lots(too many) of chainsaws, Like the Echo saws and the Stihl and Husky     W5  Case loader   1  trailers  Wright sharpener     Suffolk  setter Volvo MCT125c skid loader

drobertson

My mill will hit the feed motor at a head height of 1" if the wheel is on the ground, It has to drop down when jacked up.  I still believe that these mills have variables within each build, whether electronic or mechanical.
only have a few chain saws I'm not suppose to use, but will at times, one dog Dolly, pretty good dog, just not sure what for yet,  working on getting the gardening back in order, and kinda thinking on maybe a small bbq bizz,  thinking about it,

Peter Drouin

Quote from: drobertson on December 11, 2014, 07:07:44 PM
My mill will hit the feed motor at a head height of 1" if the wheel is on the ground, It has to drop down when jacked up.  I still believe that these mills have variables within each build, whether electronic or mechanical.


You might have something there. Mine will pass over the tire, but not the fender. And with the chair sometimes it will hit the top of the tire, Just a little. two turns on the legs and I'm good.
A&P saw Mill LLC.
45' of Wood Mizer, cutting since 1987.
License NH softwood grader.

Dave Shepard

I've never had any issues with the tire on that side. Have you replaced the tire? I had to put a trailer spare on the loader side after the original lost a fight with the pallet forks. A 7.50-16 is a lot taller than a 225/75/15. :D
Wood-Mizer LT40HDD51-WR Wireless, Kubota L48, Honda Rincon 650, TJ208 G-S, and a 60"LogRite!

Banjo picker

I run a Cooks AC 36 like Back woods  has ....I am set up on concrete under a shed, and I pulled the tires off some time ago...makes it easier to clean up and makes it harder to steal, should someone have the notion.  It has 6 supports no problem.  Banjo
Never explain, your friends don't need it, and your enemies won't believe you any way.

Robert Owens

I make sure the tires are making contact with the ground with the six jacks. The main reason is due to using my tractor pushing logs up the ramp and onto the bed with my pallet forks. I used to raise the mill so the tires were not touching until pushing a log up and onto the bed I pushed a bit too hard and I bent the offside jack due to the weight of the log and the pallet forks pushing against it. So now I make sure the tires are resting on the ground and am very careful while pushing logs up the ramp onto the bed. I had a few logs I could not lift with the front end loader and there was no way I could do it myself with a can't hook, so just had to figure out how to do it by myself. Lesson learned.

drobertson

Nope, I use to always set up with a 2by under the dust side when portable, and always hit when at 1" on the last cut. keep in mind it was a brush, but still hit,  after I let the tire rest in the air, I never had the issue.  just my mill I suppose, and then again I have had several issues that were just my mill, so, whatever, 
only have a few chain saws I'm not suppose to use, but will at times, one dog Dolly, pretty good dog, just not sure what for yet,  working on getting the gardening back in order, and kinda thinking on maybe a small bbq bizz,  thinking about it,

backwoods sawyer

We don't always get level ground to set up on around here.



  

  

  

 

Had one site where it took two 4x4 trucks chained togather to take the mill up to the top of the ridge set the mill up stradle of the ridge full weight on both tires and both front and back jacks werefully exstended with blocking under them. had to dig treches for the loading arm feet. The turn around was small and on a side hill, like the OP I had to disconect to turn the mill around. 
With the camand control on the hitch the tounge weight is 300lb. blocking one wheel and pivoting off of it I used a 6' tankers bar to spin the mill around. I kept a tow strap tied to the mill and moved the other from tree to tree so I had a safety line on the mill incase it got away from me.
I did have the mill run away one night while hitching up in the dark on a hill side job. Bumped the tounge with the hitch and the tailing pile caught it about 6' down the hill.
Backwoods Custom Milling Inc.
100% portable. . Oregons largest portable sawmill service, serving all of Oregon, from our Backwoods to yours..sawing since 1991

AnthonyW

I have a LT25 without the FAO jacks. Even if I move the head to the opposite end of the mill, it takes a LOT of force to get the legs down far enough to get the tires off the ground. I recently set the mill up on a hill (guide rail was parallel to the slope). The first time I chocked the wheels and had to lift the tires off the ground in order to get the mill level. I vowed I would not do that again. After some repairs and re-tuning, I returned to set it up again but brought my car ramps with me this. It was much more comfortable and doable to level the mill with the tires on the ground. While reading the manual for the tune-up, I noticed that it said the tires should be on the ground when leveling.
'97 Wood-Mizer LT25 All Manual with 15HP Kohler

Brucer

The stability of a mill depends on the geometry of the legs/mill body. Wood-Mizers have the drive side outriggers on the inside of the frame; without the wheel on the ground they rely on the weight of mill to counteract the momentum of a log banging into the side tops.

Mills that have the outriggers further away from the frame will be more stable.

I set my mill up so it is level side to side with the wheels supporting the weight -- I use shims/blocks under a wheel if necessary. Then I jack the mill up just enough to take some of the pressure off the wheels. In 10 years of sawing on two different mills, I have only twice had a situation where the mill would have gone over without the wheel bracing it. Didn't happen often but it sure would have ruined a pleasant day sawing.

The pole mill down the road used to have a stationary WM to resaw their offcuts. It was supposed to be bolted down but they didn't bother. One day their loader operator brought over a huge log and the sawyer told him to just load it straight on the mill. The guy got his grapple a little too high and the log rolled down onto the mill about 3 times faster than if they'd been using the lift arms on the mill. Over it went :o. The owner was so ticked off that he welded the mill down to the steel beams set in the floor  ::).
Bruce    LT40HDG28 bandsaw
"Complex problems have simple, easy to understand wrong answers."

coalsmok

Its not a issue with my mill the wheels have to come off to saw, thats how its designed.  I have had it slip a little when setup on steep ground while working a couple large logs on it but it seems to be very stable and I dont set it up in the air very high.

  

 

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