Husky 346XP not starting? Has fire, plug wet. Won't kick off with ether either

[Thechamp]

Newbie here, was looking around on the net for some advice on a chainsaw and came across this forum.  Must say lots of good info here.  Been reading as a 'guest' this evening till I got approval to join up.  I'm in South Texas so I don't use my chainsaw very much.  It sits most of the time and probably hasn't cut a cord of wood since it was new.  I do live on a small farm and have a pasture full of mesquite which I occasionally cut up for barbeque wood for my buds, etc.   I had hoped to do some hunting and thought it would be nice to have a good saw to clear out trails, etc., so I went with the Husqvarna 346XP.  I bought it in probably 2006.  Used it twice this year for some minor trimming on my mother's place and the other day went to start it and it started to start, did it's 'cough' and then wouldn't start.  I'm physically pretty messed up and honestly the compression on this saw makes it very hard for me to start if it doesn't catch the first 2-3 pulls.  Long story short, it didn't start.  I check the plug and it had fire.  The plug was very wet indicating gas.  I've been around outboards for 40 years and usually if you have a carb problem and hit them with a little ether they fire up.  Nope, nothing.  I checked the fuel supply line and it was clear with fuel coming from the tank.  The fuel was old so I changed it out but that didn't help either.  Finally gave up and took it to a local shop.   Seeing the experience on this forum I suspect some of you have seen this before and can give me a hint as to what was wrong and what to expect in the way of a repair. 

I do plan on selling the Husky and finding something in a saw that's easier to start.  Don't want to give up my power and speed but with each passing year the arm strength to fight a saw is getting worse.  Also have a very bad hip and two bad knees so it's more of a 'body thing' than just the arm strength.    A very good friend recommended the Dolmar saws.  He's running a 5105 and says it's the easiest starting saw he's ever owned.  He's had all kinds including some pretty big saws since he used to cut firewood for a living.   How does the 5105 compare with the 346xp in the starting department? 

I saw some post on the PS-421 and it sounds like it might also work for me.  I definitely won't ever wear one out and they stay in a case and in the shop so they're taken care of.   Old folks have a habit of trying to keep em new...  we know what happens when you get old and busted up... :D

Thanks a bunch in advance for ya'lls help.

[Andyshine77]

May things can cause a saw flooded. Old fuel, poor carb tuning, metering needle stuck open, operator error and so on. The 346 isn't really a high compression saw, even when you don't use the decomp valve. the 346 really it's hard to pull over. Has the saw always been hard to pull over, or has it gotten harder progressively? Do you store the saw with fuel in the tank? Really this sounds like you simply aren't spinning the engine fast enough to start it.


I personally think that it may be time to hang up your boots, and let a young buck, do the bucking from now on. With your health issues it doesn't sound like you can run a saw safety.

The Dolmar 5105 has more compression than the 346, so I don't see that helping you. The 421 on the other hand has a spring assisted starter mechanism, which reduces how hard and fast you have to pull the recoil handle.

[celliott]

There are multiple offerings from the major manufacturers with "easy start" saws. You slowly pull the cord, and it winds up a spring and then spins the engine over. All on smaller, light saws also.

Could be a number of things why the saw isn't starting, but like Andy said, could be yourself not being able to pull it over fast\hard enough.

You said it had spark and fuel, compression is the other part of the triangle. Doesn't sound like it's the problem, but worth a check anyways.

Also, I wouldn't use ether to check if it will fire... No lubrication in ether. Some mix gas dropped into the cylinder would do the trick.

And if you are going to get rid of that 346xp, I might be interested in it, if you won't trade it in for a new saw or sell it wherever you are. Been wanting one for awhile now, it's a missing piece to my Husqvarna lineup 

[isawlogs]

 I was going to add about the easy start saws but was beat to it  :D

  Stihl has the 170 and the 180 in the easy start, (they may have others) I only know of these as these are saws I have used. they may be an answer to your starting issue and also they are light, they are no where near a 345XP, but that being said,  they could be a saw with wich you could still get out there and get things done. it is

As for your 345, if this happens again, pull the plug, put the plug back on the lead wire, have the plug hang near the plug hole and make the saw turn over with the cord, the gas accumulation in the cylinder will burn out from the spark  after a few pulls. Make sure the plug is dry, I use a lighter and burn the tip some, put it back on and tryu the saw again. This works for me.  ;)

[Thechamp]

Thanks, I did several of the other recommendations, just forgot to list them all.  Had a friend who's strong as an ox try to start it and he had no luck either.  We did try gasoline/oil mix in the carb and in the cylinder but that didn't help either.  We tried drying the plug and letting it hang in the plug hole while we cranked it over to get rid of any excess gas and of course make sure the plug was firing which it was. 

As for using ether in an engine, yes it's a no-no but with the engine having gas/oil mix in the cylinder a shot won't hurt anything.   And it was plenty wet.  Now squirting it into a dry engine I agree would not be a good idea.  My mechanics used to freak when we'd go to the lake to test run a motor and they'd see a guy on the dock with his can of ether determined to make that sick motor run.  If it doesn't run like it should then it needs to go to the doctor....  especially a 2 stroke!   

As for starting it's always been a hard to crank saw.  I usually pulled out the choke/on switch and it would take 2-3 cranks to cough.  Then push it in half way and one more crank and it would be running.  Sometimes it would take 2 more but she'd catch and run. 

Will keep Chris in mind if and when I decide to sell it.  There is a faint possibility that I'd trade it in on something but generally I sell what I have and buy the other one.    My 346XP doesn't have the de-compression valve nor did it come with the primer bulb.  It's what I'd call an original before all the modifications.   

My first saw was a McCullough 610 and then a 10-10 for many years.   The old 10-10 ran like a scalded ape but it would vibrate you to death!   Had several Echos and also still have a Shindaiwa 357.  The latter ones were always very easy to pull start.  Bought the Shindaiwa for a hired hand when we were putting in the farm place since I wasn't about to let him use the Husky.  Should have sold the Shindaiwa some time back but kind of like it since it's small and lightweight along with easy to start.  Just doesn't go through the big Mesquites like the Husky does.  That .325 kerf and speed are impressive. 

Been reading on the gas situation and have to share that the Shindaiwa was put up some 5 years back and had gas in it at the time.  Plainly forgot about it.  Had to dig it out when the Husky wouldn't run.  I dumped out the old gas, put in fresh mix, primed it and choked it and 5 or 6 cranks she was running.  Ran a little rough at first but didn't take long to clear out and run like she always has.   
 
Sort of burned on Stihl.  First off bought a new Kombi system back in 2006.  Honestly the biggest piece of junk I've ever owned.  Super hard to start cold and impossible to start hot.  Plus heavy and awkward to use.  Switched to the Shindaiwa multi tool system and it's light, starts easy and outruns the Stihl.  The Shindaiwa pole saw and weed eater are the best I've ever owned.  I won't say I'll never own another Stihl product but I'll have to be convinced they got their bugs out.  Buddy owns and operates a rental business and he says the Stihls have carb issues and won't work for him.   He also does service on customer  units of which the vast majority are the small homeowner Stihls.   He told me recently that in 1993 he bought 10 Shindaiwa 488s for the rental business and one of those is still in the rental fleet.  He's bought a couple new Dolmars the last few years and says so far they're doing fine.  Sure do wish Echo would have left Shindaiwa alone!   

While digging around I found a local shop that had closed some years back and he's now re-opened in another town not too far away.  Hoping to run by him tomorrow and talk to him.  He's also a Dolmar dealer so maybe he'll have some in stock that I can play with.   


Thanks

[Thechamp]

I personally think that it may be time to hang up your boots, and let a young buck, do the bucking from now on. With your health issues it doesn't sound like you can run a saw safety.

The Dolmar 5105 has more compression than the 346, so I don't see that helping you. The 421 on the other hand has a spring assisted starter mechanism, which reduces how hard and fast you have to pull the recoil handle.

Thanks for the tips.  I'm thinking mine has got to be a carb issue of some sort but the not lighting with ether still messes with my mind.   Nice to know the 421 has that spring assisted starter mechanism.  Another reason to look it over.  For what I do it should be sufficient.  Need to see if I can run a .325 kerf chain on it.   

Physically, yeah I'm going to go to the other side with no useable parts.   Ruptured L4 disk in 1984.  Tore left rotator cuff a few years back.  Blew out the right hip moving some heavy stuff in the shop back in 2008.  Doc says left hip is close behind.  Both knees are going to need to be fixed, bone on bone.  Have high blood pressure and with the medication they prescribed my lower legs are swollen all the time.  They fill with blood and the valves don't work like they should so the blood stays in them till I lay down at night.  After a 12-18 hour day they hurt pretty bad.  They have the diuretic in them but the damage is done. Hearing is pretty well gone on the left ear, still got enough to hear some on the right.  Eyes.... they're headed out too.   But I'm still building, driving tractor, working on projects and don't plan on stopping.  Fastest way to really go downhill is sit on your duff and watch others work.  Plus being an old German most people don't do things to my satisfaction in the first place.   ;D   Especially contractor types that could care less about anything except the check being good.  Course I hear the same thing from all the sub contractors who tell me that they can't find people who actually care about the quality of their work.  With the work ethic of today's Americans we'd be hard pressed to rebuild this country if something happened.   

I work at my own pace and I especially watch for those helpful people who want to get in the way while you're doing something.   Please, no, just get out of the way.  When I need help I'll let you know.  On the good side I work by myself 99% of the time so there isn't anyone to get in the way. 

Did help a buddy build a 56' by 26' garage/shed a couple years ago.  He's 16 years younger and guides for Elk in the mountains around Cloudcroft New Mexico - very good shape.  He had the uprights in the ground when I got there and we cut, welded and built the whole thing in 3 days between the two of us.  Lots of welding and screwing.  He commented at the end of the 2nd day as to how I can still keep going like I do.  Told him everything hurts but you keep going.  It's going to hurt anyway so you might as well accomplish something.  Plus accomplishing something is still a heck of a lot of fun.  Take away my working and you might as well pull the plug. :( 

Later

[beenthere]

If it doesn't run like it should then it needs to go to the doctor....  especially a 2 stroke!

Champ
You said it, so I'll second that motion.    ;D ;D

And welcome to the Forestry Forum.   

[celliott]

Champ, maybe pull the muffler off and take a look at the exhaust side of the piston, just for kicks.
Could possibly be a weak coil, and it won't spark under compression. Just a WAG though.

[luvmexfood]

Had a saw that would not crank one time. Pulled the plug, which was only a month old, hooked it up to the lead and ran a jumper to the metal part of the saw. Plenty of spark.

That evening while in the shop a mechanic (auto and anything else) came by. Dad had always let him take his kids out on the farm to dear hunt so I still let him. Heck of a good fellow. Will do anything for you.

He told me that just because a plug would spark outside the engine doesn't mean it will inside. he went out and hunted till dusk and stopped back by the shop and took the saw with him along with the old plug. Put in the old plug, blew out all the fuel from the cylinder and cranked right up. He is know to be one of the best independant mechanic with his own shop in the area.

Made a beliver out of me. Total charge.  0000

[Thechamp]

Got my saw back today.  Hadn't heard anything so I called and the service manager said she was ready and running fine.   He said they rebuilt the carb and that something had been clogged 'open' with old gas (varnish crud) allowing the fuel to keep pouring into the engine.  I wanted to talk to the tech but they were busy.  He said while they had it they removed the muffler and cleaned the carbon in the exhaust area?  Thinking that's what he said.  Anyway probably didn't hurt any to have that cleaned up. 

It was cold and sitting on the concrete when I got there.  Picked it up and pulled the choke, one pull and she was running.   8)   Actually seemed easier to crank today.  Maybe I wasn't as tired as usual....  start of the day not mid or end, or just thrilled that there was nothing really wrong with it.  I did ask if there was an upgrade kit available to allow for easier starting and the service manager said not that he knew of.   Seen my share of nasty carbs but still befuddles me that it wouldn't fire with the ether the other day.  Learned something new.  Next week I've got some mesquite trees to butcher so she'll get a work out. 

I was fearing an expensive repair on a saw that is literally like new.  Thought they did me right on labor as well.  $50 took care of it.  Around here that's very reasonable.  She will be stored in the future without any gas in her and run dry with a shot of 2 cycle oil in the cylinder.  Not going to gamble on using it again in a short time period.  Gas/oil mix is very cheap.... 

Thanks for all the suggestions/tips.

[Thechamp]

Had a saw that would not crank one time. Pulled the plug, which was only a month old, hooked it up to the lead and ran a jumper to the metal part of the saw. Plenty of spark.

That evening while in the shop a mechanic (auto and anything else) came by. Dad had always let him take his kids out on the farm to dear hunt so I still let him. Heck of a good fellow. Will do anything for you.

He told me that just because a plug would spark outside the engine doesn't mean it will inside. he went out and hunted till dusk and stopped back by the shop and took the saw with him along with the old plug. Put in the old plug, blew out all the fuel from the cylinder and cranked right up. He is know to be one of the best independant mechanic with his own shop in the area.

Made a beliver out of me. Total charge.  0000

Didn't know that ya'll had Mexican food in Virginia.  hmmm  Quite amazing how many different recipes that all taste different they can make with the same basic ingredients.  I might be from German heritage and bloodlines but I'd rather eat Mexican food than German meals.  Do like my German country sausage though... whether it's deer/elk/red stag/axis and pork or beef and pork, good stuff.   ;D

Your story about the old mechanic and the spark plug isn't really surprising.  Sometimes nothing makes sense.   I've been around engines long enough to see some awful good mechanics scratch their head and call somebody else to see what the dickens is wrong with something.  Nothing beats going to the doctor who's seen it all and recognizes the symptoms.  Some years back we had a old outboard brought in to the shop that wouldn't idle or run for that matter.  It was roughly a 10-15 HP motor.  The two mechanics we had were some of the best in the country.  Evinrude factory techs would call these guys when they ran into a problem somewhere that they couldn't solve.  They were awesome on the 'newer' outboards.  I had a friend who was an older fellow who had been working on old outboards since they were 'new'.  He knew them and enjoyed tinkering with them.  Normally the two 'hot shot' mechanics just grinned when he came by because they knew he wasn't up to their abilities.   ;)  They had spent hours on this motor trying to get it to run right and finally let it sit and went to work on others.  Rocky came by and asked what the deal was with the old motor.  They told him to have at it if he wanted to.  He grinned broadly and took it with him.  Next evening he brought it back running like a new one.  He had recognized the coil that was on it wasn't the correct one.  It was close and from the same era but it wasn't the right one.  Never dawned on them to check the part number on the coil.  The owner had gotten a used one from a local junk yard and hadn't said anything so nobody looked at it.  Rocky had the right one at his shop, put it on and she purred like a new one.  They knew they had fire, fuel, compression, etc., there was simply no reason the motor wouldn't run right that they could find.  He had the last laugh on that one.  Great guy that left us not long after that. 

[Andyshine77]

Champ it sounds like the metering needle was stuck open as I mentioned in my first post. It's one of the more common problems. When you're done with the saw for more than a week or so, drain the fuel from the tank and let the saw idle until it stops running. This will help prevent the diaphragms in the carb from getting stiff, and prevent any buildup.

[Thechamp]

Champ it sounds like the metering needle was stuck open as I mentioned in my first post. It's one of the more common problems. When you're done with the saw for more than a week or so, drain the fuel from the tank and let the saw idle until it stops running. This will help prevent the diaphragms in the carb from getting stiff, and prevent any buildup.

He sure wasn't clear, (don't think he really knew the specific cause) so I wasn't going to put something I wasn't 100% sure of but I think you hit dead on, especially if it's a common carb problem.   On the safe side the way I do things probably safest to drain the gas and run the gas out of the carb.  Easy enough to add fresh fuel.   

Is removing the carbon in the exhaust anything that should be done every so many hours or ?? 

[luvmexfood]

Thechamp. Had to call Dishnetwork about my satellite one morning about a year ago. Got a call center in the Phillipines. Lady spoke good english and we were chatting while she worked on my account. Anyway, long story short they have Mexican Restaurants in the Philllipines. Wonder how that would taste?

[celliott]

Well, glad you got your saw running 

I was hoping for a project 346xp, but glad it was something simple and you're still running it.

[Andyshine77]

Champ it sounds like the metering needle was stuck open as I mentioned in my first post. It's one of the more common problems. When you're done with the saw for more than a week or so, drain the fuel from the tank and let the saw idle until it stops running. This will help prevent the diaphragms in the carb from getting stiff, and prevent any buildup.

He sure wasn't clear, (don't think he really knew the specific cause) so I wasn't going to put something I wasn't 100% sure of but I think you hit dead on, especially if it's a common carb problem.   On the safe side the way I do things probably safest to drain the gas and run the gas out of the carb.  Easy enough to add fresh fuel.   

Is removing the carbon in the exhaust anything that should be done every so many hours or ??

If you're running OEM two cycle oil, or any other high quality 2T oil, carbon buildup should be almost nonexistent. Unless they removed the the cylinder, I highly doubt they did any carbon removal. With the low hours your saw has, even if you used SEA 30 oil, you wouldn't have any buildup anyway.

[ladylake]

 The fastest way to carbon up a saw is to let it idle too long with a rich low setting.   Steve

[Andyshine77]

The fastest way to carbon up a saw is to let it idle too long with a rich low setting.   Steve

That is contrary to what I've seen. Normally that causes low engine temperatures which induces quite a bit of wash, which is often indicated by a bit of oil coming out the exhaust. Now if you run the engine hard and too rich, the unburned fuel and oil will stick to and solidify on certain surfaces. Even then with modern oil carbon buildup that would require any attention will take hundreds of hours of use. At least that's what I've noticed the passed 20 or so years.

[husky2100]

My 345 did the same thing the intake side of the piston was colasped from the old plastic intake boot clasp pull the carb off and take a look at the piston

[Al_Smith]

Well lesson learned .You cannot fire up a flooded engine with ether.

More times than not a saw that will not start can be traced right back to the carb as you know by now .

Now myself I don't even fool with them .I just rebuild the carbs which is relatively inexpensive.

It's probabley good advice to run them out of fuel but quite frankly the carbs will go funky any way weather you do or not .Moonshine in the gasoline ya know .

[Andyshine77]

Well lesson learned .You cannot fire up a flooded engine with ether.

More times than not a saw that will not start can be traced right back to the carb as you know by now .

Now myself I don't even fool with them .I just rebuild the carbs which is relatively inexpensive.

It's probabley good advice to run them out of fuel but quite frankly the carbs will go funky any way weather you do or not .Moonshine in the gasoline ya know .

Now Al moonshine is okay in my book, but I think we agree it shouldn't be in our fuel for goodness sake.

[Thechamp]

If you're running OEM two cycle oil, or any other high quality 2T oil, carbon buildup should be almost nonexistent. Unless they removed the the cylinder, I highly doubt they did any carbon removal. With the low hours your saw has, even if you used SEA 30 oil, you wouldn't have any buildup anyway.

I'm a believer of running the best oil that the manufacturer recommends which in this case it was their XP Professional Performance oil.   I also run it in my Shindaiwa products and so far all ok there too. 

You're probably right in that there shouldn't have been any carbon build up and it might well have been marketing 'bs' but if they at least checked it that would be fine by me.  If not, it's history now. 

[Al_Smith]

That oil business goes on and on .Stop and think it through .Decades ago all boat motors were ran on 16 to 1 ratio with 30WT oil .They didn't carbon up from the oil .If they did it was from running at trolling speeds for extended periods .Simple enough,lean them out and give it the gas ,cleared right up ,back to trolling .

Really about the only saws I've ever seen prone to carbon are some of the 10 series design McCullochs .That depended on which style of muffler they used .Screens would plug and carbon the up around the exhaust port .Simple--remove the screen .Hardly anybody runs them these days so while it might be good info it applies to few people .

[Al_Smith]

Now Al moonshine is okay in my book, but I think we agree it shouldn't be in our fuel for goodness sake.

Well that moonshine has it's place .I'd much rather see good corn whiskey or cattle feed as engine fuel .12 dollar a pound beef steaks ,good heavens .

[beenthere]

.12 dollar a pound beef steaks

Haven't seen 12 cent a pound steak in a long time.