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Ever saw out canoe rails?

Started by terrifictimbersllc, February 10, 2013, 01:14:04 PM

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terrifictimbersllc

Talking to a friend who's got trees about finding a white ash log, for sawing out rails for my canoe on my Wood-Mizer.  Has anyone done this?.  What diameter of tree is best, should I look for one where the wood can be taken outside the juvenile wood area?  Maybe 10 or 12" at the small end?   I would make several sets so I don't have to do it again. Also make a bunch of tool handle blanks while I'm at it for pitchforks, rakes and the like.

My canoe is a 1982 Mad River Royalex Explorer, 17' model, and the original rails were ash.  The rail dimensions are about 17-1/2 feet by 9/16" by about 1-1/4", inside and out, with the 1-1/4 in the horizontal.  Thinking this wide face was quarter sawn.  The original rails were continuous.  I would cut them oversize on the sawmill,  then machine them outside my shop on my thickness planer for room.  Finish up with hand tools after mounting on the canoe and treat with Gunnel Gard I think.  SS screws hold inside and outside together through the canoe side.
DJ Hoover, Terrific Timbers LLC,  Mystic CT Woodmizer Million Board Foot Club member. 2019 LT70 Super Wide 55 Yanmar,  LogRite fetching arch, WM BMS250 sharpener/BMT250 setter.  2001 F350 7.3L PSD 6 spd manual ZF 4x4 Crew Cab Long Bed

Jay C. White Cloud

Sounds like you are on the right track.  I've helped with a few canoes, (I'm a traditional kayak man,) so with both of these the building is similar.  Now we worked green wood only, yes to the quarter sawn since much of what we used was riven out-not sawn.  On that note, if you saw the wood out, saw a .25 over size minimum for shaping for sure just as you planned. 

Now something else I'm a bid confused by..."rails?"...did you mean the "Gunwales?"

Good ones are three piece, (inwale-outwale-cap,) or some are single with dado to accept the ribs.  It all depends on the design of the frame and rib configuration.

Will you steam/heat bend the wood or strip and epoxy laminate?

Good luck, love to see pictures of the process you go through.

Regards,

jay

"To posses an open mind, is to hold a key to many doors, and the ability to created doors where there were none before."

"When it is all said and done, they will have said they did it themselves."-teams response under a good leader.

terrifictimbersllc

Q&A

Now something else I'm a bid confused by..."rails?"...did you mean the "Gunwales?"

Two 17-1/2 long x 9/16" x 1-1/4" strips on each side of the canoe 1-1/4" is horizontal, which are flush with, and sandwich the approx 3/8 royalex canoe sides.  I'll look at the dictionary later.  The caps on this canoe are some kind of laminate. Neither the caps or the ribs or whatever else is involved with the rails, except that the seats and the yoke bolt to them.

Good ones are three piece, (inwale-outwale-cap,) or some are single with dado to accept the ribs.  It all depends on the design of the frame and rib configuration.
Should say "some good ones....".  Design of my canoe online somewhere probably.

Will you steam/heat bend the wood or strip and epoxy laminate? 
No, it is a gentle curve that would not require steam bending.

Good luck, love to see pictures of the process you go through.
Thanks will do
DJ Hoover, Terrific Timbers LLC,  Mystic CT Woodmizer Million Board Foot Club member. 2019 LT70 Super Wide 55 Yanmar,  LogRite fetching arch, WM BMS250 sharpener/BMT250 setter.  2001 F350 7.3L PSD 6 spd manual ZF 4x4 Crew Cab Long Bed

Jay C. White Cloud

Hi D,

Sounds like a great project, I do look forward to the pictures.  I wish I could send you to a good book or web site, but can't think of any off the top of my head.

QuoteSS screws hold inside and outside together through the canoe side.
There is a method for "stitching," them on that works really well, for a more traditional finish; other wise I would recommend a ss cap bolt with lock-nut, instead of a screw fastener, or even a brass/copper rivet.

Is the canoe you are working on all wood with ribs/ or a fiber glass model?

Have you checked out some of the canoe/kayak build sites?

Regards,

jay
"To posses an open mind, is to hold a key to many doors, and the ability to created doors where there were none before."

"When it is all said and done, they will have said they did it themselves."-teams response under a good leader.

terrifictimbersllc

Quote from: terrifictimbersllc on February 10, 2013, 01:14:04 PM
My canoe is a 1982 Mad River Royalex Explorer, 17' model, and the original rails were ash. 
My canoe is Royalex not wood or fiberglas. 

Here is a picture of it (bottom photos):  http://www.madrivercanoe.com/content/madrivercanoe.com/assets/page/1988/page%208.jpg
It is a very simple design and I am just replacing these rails to restore it to the original. 

I am happy with the canoe, only the wood parts rot and there aren't many of those. I don't want to re-engineer it.

My post is a question of whether anyone has sawn out long continuous grain rails like these and how big the log was.  I've split them out before which was murderous work.  I want to saw out a bunch of them instead.
DJ Hoover, Terrific Timbers LLC,  Mystic CT Woodmizer Million Board Foot Club member. 2019 LT70 Super Wide 55 Yanmar,  LogRite fetching arch, WM BMS250 sharpener/BMT250 setter.  2001 F350 7.3L PSD 6 spd manual ZF 4x4 Crew Cab Long Bed

Jay C. White Cloud

Nice, those are sturdy craft, and very durable.  My day to day "beater," kayak is a press plastic one with no wood at all.  The kids can really have fun with it and not worry to much about hurting it.

How had the original gunwales been fitted to it?
"To posses an open mind, is to hold a key to many doors, and the ability to created doors where there were none before."

"When it is all said and done, they will have said they did it themselves."-teams response under a good leader.

terrifictimbersllc

You're right about sturdy.  They used to have an ad showing one wrapped around a bridge abutment in the river, saying it popped back into shape later.  Placement of the wood rails: one on each side, with screws passing through one rail, then the Royalex (ABS plastic), then pulling tight into the inside rail (gunwale).
DJ Hoover, Terrific Timbers LLC,  Mystic CT Woodmizer Million Board Foot Club member. 2019 LT70 Super Wide 55 Yanmar,  LogRite fetching arch, WM BMS250 sharpener/BMT250 setter.  2001 F350 7.3L PSD 6 spd manual ZF 4x4 Crew Cab Long Bed

isawlogs

 I have sawed many , many  gunwales  for  Trail Head out of Ottawa,  They had white ash trucked in from southern ontario and we would saw it 4/4. That wood would sit a year air drying, the following year we sawed more logs and then resawed to 4/4 air dried to 4/4 squares, those where used to make the finished gunales.
 
  If you are to cut a tree down to make your gunales, take the butt and cut a short section out to make your handles with, that will take care of any butt swell and the log up from that will have nice straight grain to deal with  ;)
  Size of log to use is not really an issue as long as that log is big enough at the small end to give you the amount of 4/4 squares you need. I have used a 10"( that would be small end )  17 footer here for a 15' foot canoe.

  I like doing this type of project, I could of went and got some that where ready made at the store that I had already sawed, but that would of taken the makin' of them out of the equation  ;D
A man does not always grow wise as he grows old , but he always grows old as he grows wise .

   Marcel

celliott

Never sawn any out, but my Dad and I have replaced gunwales on a fair number of canoes. We have done a 16' royalex mad river explorer as well. I think we used brass screws instead of stainless. We bought the ash boards, and ripped the gunwales out on the table saw. The explorer does have a gentle enough curve, or rocker, so you don't need to steam bend the gunwales. We did an old town camper that had significant flair on both ends, and we had to steam bend the last 3 feet of each gunwale to get them to fit. Worked well too.
On the explorer, just take your time making sure all the holes line up. Use as many quick release clamps as you can, they help alot.
The explorer is a good rugged canoe. A bit heavy to be portaging, so we use it for river trips, and whitewater canoeing.
BTW, royalex is pretty near indestructible. It will take a beating.
Chris Elliott

Clark 666C cable skidder
Husqvarna and Jonsered pro saws
265rx clearing saw
Professional maple tubing installer and maple sugaring worker, part time logger

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