Another Bandwheel Tracking Question.

Hale87 · March 16, 2012, 12:31:09 PM

Changed belts on my bandwheels and just can't get the dang thing to track right. I think I've searched and read every old post on here and still can't get it. I purchased a new 6' level just to use as a straight edge, so I think I'm good there. What happens is that when you get it close to where you want it, I'll tap the bearing a little to bring it forward, and about that time it takes off and just moves too far. It's like there's too much crown in the belt? It will do the same thing if I try and bump it back. You'll get it almost to where you want it, then it will fall of the back. Even if you get it close to where you want it, it will not stay there when you start to saw. Most times it will push back on the bandwheel maybe 1/4". I don't know how many times I've torn it apart and started over. I just don't know what to do next. Any ideas would be extremely appreciated!!!

Thanks

bedway · March 16, 2012, 01:10:55 PM

What kind of saw are we talking about?

Hale87 · March 16, 2012, 01:48:20 PM

Guess I should have mentioned that. It's an older 30" Hudson with 16" bandwheels.

bedway · March 16, 2012, 01:53:27 PM

Do you have tracking adjustments? Moving the bearings around you might be chasing your tail.

Hale87 · March 16, 2012, 04:03:59 PM

No adjustments. They told me to line it up with a straight edge then tap one bearing or the other until it tracks properly. I called back and told them of my problems and they were out of ideas.

coastlogger · March 16, 2012, 04:26:19 PM

You are sure theres no tracking adjustment on the idler wheel?

Hale87 · March 16, 2012, 06:23:47 PM

Quote from: coastlogger on March 16, 2012, 04:26:19 PM
You are sure theres no tracking adjustment on the idler wheel?

None.
I'm sure.

bandmiller2 · March 16, 2012, 09:29:00 PM

Hale,very likely your setting the bandwheels in relation to each outher what about the outher plain verticle. easiest way I know is to carefully level your mill then the bandwheels vertically. Are your bearings good?Crown on the belts should help not hinder your adjustment.Its tough to do it moving bearings as it takes so little adjustment to affect tracking.Sometimes the bandwheels are no aligned perfectly with each outher and need a little toe in or out.Verticle adjustment would have to be corrected with shims under the bearings. Frank C.

coastlogger · March 17, 2012, 01:35:32 AM

So how then is your idler wheel attached?with pillow blocks like the driven wheel? or some other system of mounting? Usually its the latter and there is a way of slightly turning the idler wheel on a vertical axis,which is what it seems to me is what you need to be able to do.

eastberkshirecustoms · March 17, 2012, 07:03:28 AM

Quote from: coastlogger on March 17, 2012, 01:35:32 AM
So how then is your idler wheel attached?with pillow blocks like the driven wheel? or some other system of mounting? Usually its the latter and there is a way of slightly turning the idler wheel on a vertical axis,which is what it seems to me is what you need to be able to do.

If you look here: http://www.hud-son.com/includes/30WEB.jpg you can see that the Hudson is a pillow block mill, all around. This usually wouldn't be a problem if adjustment bolts were mounted on each side of the bearings. But as bedway stated, there will be a lot of tail chasing by loosing the bolts and tapping on them. Chances are the bearings will shift around when the mounting bolts are retorqued anyway. I've seen the Hudson mills in person (built here in NY) and can confirm that they are built that way. Leaves a little to be desired, IMO.

Hale87 · March 17, 2012, 09:42:26 AM

There's definitely no adjustment. They told me to align the wheels with a straight edge, then tap one bearing or the other until it tracks right. Point is I don't loosen up any of the bolts, I just tap them (pillow block bearing) when the torque is on. Problem has been that I can't get it to stay where it should, once it's close, it just takes off and goes out too far. Tap the back side until it's close then it takes off after you get it close to where you want it. Another problem is that a lot of the times one wheel will track out further than the other. Frustration has begun to set in. >:(

pineywoods · March 17, 2012, 10:46:54 AM

I got involved with the same problem on a neighbors mill. The bolts holding the pillow blocks to the frame didn't have washers under the nut. Loosen bolt, tap pillow block till the alignment looked ok, tighten bolt and alignment went to pot. Put a good heavy flat washer under each nut, problem solved.

Hale87 · March 17, 2012, 11:39:48 AM

Quote from: pineywoods on March 17, 2012, 10:46:54 AMPut a good heavy flat washer under each nut, problem solved.

Mine have washers under them. You're thinking once I get close,,,, the other side moves causing the band to travel too far to the other side? Something of that nature is surely happening. I even took down the bandwheels and took the grinder to where the pillow blocks contact the carriage. Wanted to make sure I had the best surfaces mating together so they didn't travel.
I'm seriously runnin out of ideas. haven't worked on it in a week because I'm lost for ideas to try.

coastlogger · March 17, 2012, 11:46:33 AM

Got welder? Weld a 3/8 nut to the frame adjacent to end of each pillow block. Both ends even better. Then you can have an adjuster bolt (s) for each block,allows minute adjustments of pillow blocks.
Do you currently back off tension then tap pillow block or what?

Hale87 · March 17, 2012, 01:07:48 PM

Quote from: coastlogger on March 17, 2012, 11:46:33 AM
Got welder? Weld a 3/8 nut to the frame adjacent to end of each pillow block. Both ends even better. Then you can have an adjuster bolt (s) for each block,allows minute adjustments of pillow blocks.
Do you currently back off tension then tap pillow block or what?

When you say each pillow block do you mean all four?
Typically I've had the mill running at about half speed and just tap lightly as it runs. It works great until it's close then it dives off the other side.
Thanks for the help.

beenthere · March 17, 2012, 01:24:27 PM

"close then it dives off the other side" sounds like you don't have any crown in the wheels for the band to seek center.

coastlogger · March 17, 2012, 02:17:52 PM

I would consider doing the adjuster screws just on the idler side pb's,rely on moving shaft in/out on the drive side. That is kind of how mine is set up .All 4 would be even better but more work.
Good point about the crown. Maybe try a different kind of belt? I use Gates, seem to work fine. One thing I do know is that if you put your old belts back on and you get them reversed from how they were it makes things"interesting"
clgr

eastberkshirecustoms · March 17, 2012, 02:23:34 PM

I'm curious how you are moving the bearings without loosening the bolts? Does it take a 'tap' or a 'whack'? Maybe it's not an issue, but seems that if they move that easy, the tracking won't stay put anyway. I agree to take the time to install the adjusters.

Hale87 · March 17, 2012, 04:02:23 PM

Quote from: eastberkshirecustoms on March 17, 2012, 02:23:34 PM
I'm curious how you are moving the bearings without loosening the bolts? Does it take a 'tap' or a 'whack'? Maybe it's not an issue, but seems that if they move that easy, the tracking won't stay put anyway. I agree to take the time to install the adjusters.

Yes, it takes a good shot from the shop hammer. I just keep tapping away until it's there, but like I said, once close it dives off the other side.

coastlogger · March 17, 2012, 05:46:34 PM

I think I see what is going on. Didnt quite understand how you were doing it. By hitting it while band is under tension it will go past centre just like you say it does. Youd have more luck IMO if you slacked off band, loosened bolts a bit, tap until slight movement is detected,(need a scribed reference mark on frame) tighten bolts ,tension band,and observe results. The prev. mentioned adjuster bolts will be better yet but IMO you will always have to go thru the slack off, loosen, adjust, tighten ,try, sequence with this type of setup.

bandmiller2 · March 17, 2012, 09:49:33 PM

Hale,I hope you don't have the band running when your working around tapping bearings,that would be extremly dangerous. Pull the band around with the engine stopped.Good advice given about adjusters. Frank C.

Hale87 · March 18, 2012, 10:25:16 AM

Quote from: bandmiller2 on March 17, 2012, 09:49:33 PM
Hale,I hope you don't have the band running when your working around tapping bearings,that would be extremly dangerous. Pull the band around with the engine stopped.Good advice given about adjusters. Frank C.

Yes, I've thrown caution to the wind because I'm about as frustrated as I can get. Sometimes I'll use a bar so I don't have to get too close. Most times just stay to the side as far as I can.