Band Mill Owners What Do You Think Of....

Grappletractor · January 21, 2006, 10:25:04 AM

Brand X's opinion of band mills ?

http://www.brandxsawmills.com/history.htm

Cedarman · January 21, 2006, 11:26:08 AM

You have to remember, he is selling Brandx. And most of what he said about band mills has a kernal of truth. But there are those of us that have used bands for 23 or 24 years and we have made a good living doing it. So we know how to get around all the deficiencies he has mentioned. I use a double headed band scragg mill and it is possible to cut a 5 to 10 inch log by 8' every 30 seconds. It ain't the bands and it ain't the speed, it is mill alignment and band preparation and material handling that makes the profit.
This is what allows quick sawing and quality lumber AND MINIMAL SAWDUST.

Has Brandx been to the shootout?

leweee · January 21, 2006, 12:05:26 PM

Quote from: Cedarman on January 21, 2006, 11:26:08 AM

Has Brandx been to the shootout?

This will determine"where to Bear poose in the Buckwheat"

DanG · January 21, 2006, 01:15:26 PM

Careful what you wish for. The BrandX would probably aquit itself rather well in the Shootout environment, just as the Peterson and Lucas have. They have competed head to head with the big hydraulic bandmills, and have even beaten them on occasion. Not too bad for a manual push mill.

Cedarman · January 21, 2006, 02:02:54 PM

Just because you drive a Dodge shouldn't keep you from looking at a Ford which should keep Dodge on its toes.
Entreprenuers are one of the things that makes this country great.

getoverit · January 21, 2006, 02:13:20 PM

The one thing that made me decide to go with somebody else is that the BrandX owner insists that you have to go to Colorado and spend 2 days with him being trained before he will sell you a mill. Not only does this mean that you loose 2 days, but you have the added expense of plane tickets, hotel, meals....just to have the "privelege" of buying one of his mills. His mills are in the same price range as anybody else's swing mill too, and you dont get your mill any faster than you would from someone else, as he builds them as he gets orders for them. In some cases, it may take you LONGER to get your mill.

It all seems a bit like "arrogant marketing" to me... but what do I know...I just had money to spend.. :D

DanG · January 21, 2006, 02:20:15 PM

As we say in this part of the Country, "I hoid dat!" 'Cept I'm drivin' a Ford and lookin' at a Dodge. :D :D

What Brand said about the Mobile Dimension was true, too. When you boil all the BS out of the type vs type argument, you come up with the same essential truth about all of them.

Bandmills: Heckuva saw, but limited.

Circle mill: Heckuva saw, but limited.

Swing blade: Heckuva saw, but limited.

Multi-blade: Heckuva saw, but limited.

Let's all just buy one of each and their won't be any more controversy. ;D 8)

VA-Sawyer · January 21, 2006, 02:34:23 PM

Dang,
Then we would all spend our time debating which one should be bought first and which one should be used to saw each log.

One thing funny about brandX, he complains about the 24" limitation of the bandmill and his is limited to 17". Explain that !

VA-Sawyer

DanG · January 21, 2006, 02:56:35 PM

I think he is employing Sales Rhetoric, otherwise known in some circles as BS. :D :D

Actually, he was referring to the size of the log, not the board. However, we all know that you can saw a log bigger than the throat opening on a bandmill. :

:

Without going back and looking, I think he did say something about, "without turning the log."

The swingblade does have that inherant feature of being able to extract that one monster board out of the middle of a large log, by just turning it once. Brdmkr and I made a 42" board on his mill that only cuts 6" at a time.

jerry-m · January 21, 2006, 03:01:03 PM

I was wondering the same thing about the 17 inch wide cut, but would you be able to to cut from the other side to make it a 34 inch wide slab???

Do we have a member with one of his mills??? Would really like to have a good report on its good and bad points...

Jerry

DanG · January 21, 2006, 09:53:31 PM

I'm not sure Jerry, but from what I've seen, I think the 17" is achieved with a double cut with a blade that cut's 8.5 inches. I took a pretty good look at BrandX's website, and didn't see any mention of double cutting.

Dan_Shade · January 21, 2006, 10:19:37 PM

to me, it all sounds like BS marketing.

all types of mills have their pros and cons

VA-Sawyer · January 21, 2006, 11:18:23 PM

But Dan, If we can't fuss about which mill is better, we will resort back to the old argument about 'my dad can beat up your dad'.

I guess maybe we didn't grow up all that much after all. :

VA-Sawyer

Dan_Shade · January 21, 2006, 11:42:53 PM

but it's true, my dad could kick the snot out of your dad!

Chris Burchfield · January 22, 2006, 07:31:19 AM

Thanks guys! I just blew coffee all over the screen. Wife, bring me some paper towels to clean this mess up. :D :D :D

thecfarm · January 22, 2006, 07:35:24 AM

What DanG said is true. I have 2 tractors to do all the work I need to do. I'm working on that second saw mill. ;D

farmerdoug · January 22, 2006, 09:42:20 AM

Cfarm, Only two tractors? I have several tractors and I am a firm beleiver that a person needs a tractor for every piece of equipment that he uses regularly. ;D

Farmerdoug

ARKANSAWYER · January 22, 2006, 06:59:45 PM

" I do not consider them to be precise enough, nor capable of producing enough volume to sustain a "quality" saw milled product's reputation or business"
What BrandX said about my band mill. Funny that they should say such a thing about my mill. Yes, I only made $89 grand in coin last year and in 5 years have never had any of my wholesalers reject a board for miss-cut and out of the million + bdft of lumber sawn I would bet that all of the bad lumber I have produced could be hauled in the back of a small pickup. I can produce a 14 x 26 board by only turning the log twice which is no more effort then holding a small lever. I can saw veneer 12 inches wide x 0.030 thick out of white oak and produce 1/2 the sawdust he does.
What this does tell me is he is not a very good sawyer. I can saw well with any mill given in any type of stick out there. Any sawmill in the hands of a sawyer will produce good lumber given decent logs. Heck I could even make lumber on a pit saw.
Being a bit learned I think that if I were in the market for a swing mill to add to my business it would not be a BrandX since I have been so dumb to base my "reputation" and familie's lively hood on such an un-capable machine the way I have. Poor, poor pitiful me. :'(

logwalker · January 22, 2006, 07:42:53 PM

Well said Arky. If you believe Brand-Zero all our kids would be barefoot, the wife would be working 2 jobs and the only way we could heat the home would be to burn all that crappy lumber nobody would buy. I feel so used on so many levels!!!

dail_h · January 22, 2006, 07:45:06 PM

When i was looking at mills,that was one thing that would turn me off a mill quick,bashing,badmouthing the competition. It's just plain "tacky" and unprofessional to trash talk another brand. "My mill isn't good enough to stand on it's own, so I'll tall about somebody elses like it's trahs". Well go ahead,but you just lost me!!!!!

isassi · January 22, 2006, 09:30:19 PM

Hey Arkansawyer: The whole point and I agree with you is experience counts for the most....period...kinda like Chuck Yeager wrote in his book, the pilot with the most experience is going to wax your fanny every time. I think I would respect your experience more then a guy selling mills and trying to promote his product at the expense of other manufacturers. I think TK is out of it to hammer at WM's monorail system. I noticed awhile back, hudson forest equipment was the high bidder on a WM mill on E-bay...product research you suppose? :D

Bob_T · January 23, 2006, 01:12:07 AM

I read the Brand X website a week or so ago, and nothing in it offended me. I don't think there was anything in there that I haven't already read somewhere else. I don't own a bandmill, or any kind of mill yet so I don't have a personal opinion (or the experience) one way or the other. However, I've heard complaints about wavy and uneven cuts from customers of bandmills (not the owners of the mills, but people who are paying them to mill) and I've heard it often enough to wonder how much of the bandmill manufacturers claims about the advantages of their thin kerfs are mainly true in theory but not the real world.

The Brand X guy has designed and built his own mill. which counts for a lot in my book, so unless I get some further evidence to the contrary, I'll give him the benefit of the doubt.

Now what did offend me, and I've been meaning to bring it up for some time, was the pure BS in TK's brochures about poor cantilever bandmill performance. It was such complete crap, even to a new guy, that I figured the company was unethical and crossed TK off my list of mills I was interested in. If there are shortcomings in the Brand X website, and I'm not saying there are or aren't since I'm not qualified to judge, I think they're probably due to a lapse in judgement of an individual acting in good faith. In my opinion there's a huge difference between that and the pre-meditated and contrived false advertising of a larger corporation like TK.

Dunno what the penalty is for criticizing a forum sponsor, but I guess I'm gonna find out.
javascript:void(0);
whew! sweat drop

Bob

ARKANSAWYER · January 23, 2006, 07:44:51 AM

Bob, What makes this site great is the fact that if a feller tells it straight up and with kind words it will stand here. Yep it is true that the differance between mill types like the 4 posters and cantilever are a bit blown out by both sides sometimes. The reason for this site is so that information can be shared by both sides on equal grounds.
Now Joasis will back me up on this but any mill type can saw bad lumber. If Joasis hits some dirt with that circle blade and keeps cutting the dull blade will get hot and start to wobble and make bad lumber. If he does not sharpen his blade right or keep his deck aligned then it will saw poorly all the time. If I buy a cheap grinder and do not reset my blades every time I sharpen them then I will make poor lumber.
In my search of mills years ago the thing that struck me most was the fact that every new mill at the shows sawed good lumber. Do not remember ever seeing a bad board sawn at a show unless they hit a nail or rock first. But when I went to see peoples mills in use I saw alot of bad lumber. ???
Swing mills will tell you that they always make perfect lumber and that the logs never move under them. Been there and know different. Each mill has it's advantages and short comings. You just have to pick the mill that works best for you and your needs.
Now for a Manufacturer to say that their mill is better then another because of some reason is pretty much OK. To say a 4 poster is more stable then a cantilever may be even true under most conditions. But to say a cantilever can not saw good lumber day in and day out is a LIE! To say that a bandmill of any type can not saw quality lumber to support a business is a LIE! To say that a company will not ship out parts to keep a customer running without coin first is a LIE!
I find fault with a lot of what BrandX had to say and it is a sorry day in the woods when we have nothing better to do then throw mud at the feller on the next ridge. But a feller has to call an oak a oak and he had better know the differance between a red and white.

Cedarman · January 23, 2006, 08:15:33 AM

Arky, you are so right.

Over the years we have run close to 20,000,000 feet of knotty ERC through our mills using 1 1/4 bands on every mill except for the edger. Day in day out we saw good lumber. You bet we have sawn some "ski slopes". But quality control catches it immediately and machines are adjusted or blades changed. Our customers won't tolerate junk.

Every mill is capable of sawing good lumber. The question becomes how many feet of quality lumber per day and how good is log utilization.

Before buying a mill, I think a person should know what resource they will be sawing and what is the market for the finished goods. Both of these are as important as to which mill to buy. The mill is simply one of the tools to take logs into lumber and will be determined by the answers to what resource and what market.

Moral of this thread. All advertizing is suspect.

crtreedude · January 23, 2006, 08:23:49 AM

It has always been my opinion that some people find a way to screw up anything - and others find a way to make almost anything work.

It is called observation, and then thinking about what you observe. I have seen a lot of people fail because they got stuck in their head that there is only one way of doing things - and if what they bought doesn't work that way, well, it is wrong.

I personally always am suspicious when someone tries to tell me that a WoodMizer for example won't cut wood. The market would be all over them if what he said was true.

All any of us can do is do the best we can - and not spend our time tearing the other person down. I hate it in politics, and I hate it in business. Show me what you do - don't tell me what they other person doesn't do.