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Looking for any information on logging trucks please.

Started by Bridget, November 18, 2013, 08:09:02 PM

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Bridget

I am a university student completing a course in Forest Harvesting and I am attempting to write an essay on logging trucks.  I would appreciate any information on logging truck axle configurations. I welcome anyone with trucking experience to tell me about the truck they drive and what makes it so useful in the forestry industry.  Thank you so much.

beenthere

Welcome to the Forestry Forum.

Interesting subject for you to write about.

Some searching here should bring up some good material for you, but being brand new, maybe the search function won't work yet.

Look on the Home page for Timber Harvest Methods under Forestry and Logging.
https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php/topic,13313.0.html

There are many pages, and a lot of pictures so browsing should go pretty quick for you.
The thread has been going for a long time and there is a lot of good information.

Follow up here with more questions and you will likely get some genuine help with your project.

Don't be a stranger, as we are interested in your college courses and where you would like to go after college.
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

Bridget


Maine372

where are you studying? that would help us give more information about what you're likely to see on the road near you.

Bridget

I am located just outside Ottawa, Ontario.  However, the course is through Thompson Rivers University in B.C so they will be expecting some information on the trucks used on the west Coast, which I understand can be much more complicated.  I'm looking for info for both highway and off-highway trucks.

Thanks.

plasticweld

I thought when I bought my log truck; that I was doing it in an un-usual fashion. As it turns out after speaking with many other loggers that my story is the norm not the exception.

First, nobody wants to own a log truck, there are few exceptions, guys who do contract trucking and do only that, they are rare around here now. Most are  just like me. I can't find anyone to haul my logs, the landing is plugged and I am tired of counting on others to determine how much money I am going to make this year. 

I had two skidders and trucking was an issue. I poured through the want ads and on line sites looking for a reasonably priced truck. I had a market for pallet wood and no way to get it there. I could either seriously look into a truck or resign my self to either being a company logger that cut only their timber or remain small and dependent on others.

I found that buy a decent old truck that would go through DOT, that is todays version of bandits hiding in the woods to steal from you and  put out of business.  The only difference is that there is no Robin Hood to keep the evil doers of the king in check, But I digress

The cost of a entry level truck, Dot Ready, is in the range of $45,000 to $75,000 I bought my on the cheaper side. Did brakes and drums on all of the axles king pins, changed all of the fluids, this along with my first installment on insurance was just under $10,000 before I hauled my first log.

I bought an 98 International PayStar 5000, it had just over 600,000 miles on it, was built in 2000 and had  new Serco loader put on it, cost when new was $128,000. I bought the truck from the original owner who was now 75 and getting out because of health reasons. It is a tri-axle truck, with a tag axle in the back, a N11 Cummins that makes 460 horse power. and averages 5.5 miles per gallon when figuring in loading and un loading.

When I started I used to work most of the day and then haul wood, nights and weekend, between logging and trucking it was normal to put I  close to 80 to 90 hours every week. This to is the norm for guys who start out.

I haul only my wood, today I have a driver, we normally haul about 15 to 17 loads a week. from two separate jobs. I have a landing loader and ground saw on one job and everything is sorted making things go quick for the driver, the other job there is no loader and the driver has to sort. On weekends not un-common for me to haul a few loads to help keep up.

I am convinced that no matter how much wood I haul that trucking does not make me  a dime. Driver pay, tires, fuel and repairs seem to eat up everything the truck makes on paper. It does seem to be a break even deal for me at best. That being said, if something happened to my truck tomorrow I would have another one in less than a week.   Bob

ABTS

I own a tractor trailer log truck with 6 axles that way I can haul 98000 lbs on Wisconsin roads. That way it makes more money per load .I'm paid by the ton so the more I get on per load the more you make. With the fuel prices the way they are you do not make much just enough to fix the truck and my be dinner out once in awhile.It does have a loader on it the driver does do the sorting .

Ken

Quote from: plasticweld on November 21, 2013, 07:01:22 PM
I am convinced that no matter how much wood I haul that trucking does not make me  a dime. Driver pay, tires, fuel and repairs seem to eat up everything the truck makes on paper. It does seem to be a break even deal for me at best. That being said, if something happened to my truck tomorrow I would have another one in less than a week.   Bob

Well said.  I am in the same boat.  The truck is simply a convenience it seems.  That being said there are some guys making a decent living with a log truck but they are putting in long hours. 

Bridget.  Although I can not chime in on west coast trucking it is very evident to me that truck sizes, configurations and allowable axle weights vary widely across north America.  Good luck on your essay
Lots of toys for working in the bush

Bridget

Thanks for all that info plasticweld.  When you were choosing your truck, what made you choose a tri-axle?  Does the species of tree and the way it's cut impact the choice of truck and trailer used or is it simply a matter of weight in all cases?  Could you please explain what a tag axle is? I haven't come across that term before.

ABTS, thanks for sharing about your truck.  With six axles, does that mean that you only haul the full length timber?  How long are the timber pieces that you haul?  Do you have any flexibility in the cut and type of timber that you haul?

Thanks.

plasticweld

Bridget in NY state, I can haul 77,000 with a tag axle, that is a third axle that is operated by a air bag on the back end of the truck, Most log trucks would have a tag axle something like a cement mixer would have them in front of the drive axle. My truck as a Gross vehicle weight of 85,000 This is what the manufacture said it would be capable of hauling based on the what the front axle and the other axles combined can carry. When you apply for a permit in NY they basically give you a license for 57,000 and then you have to get an overweight permit for the extra. The most they would give a truck regardless of  components would be 77,000. They also base your permitted weight on the ratings on the tires. They add up what the tires are rated at. One of the considerations when buying the truck was that it have balloon tires up front, this is also the same tire used as a tag axle tire. If you send me an email address I can send you pictures of some of the things needed by DOT to determine what they need to give you your overweight permit. You could also go to NYsate.gov and go through the process of trying to register a make believe truck. You would be surprised at how complex the process is. also when my wife went through this we often go two different answers to the same question.  Let me know if you want more or different info..Bob

gologit

Bridget...try this forum.   http://www.heavyequipmentforums.com/forumdisplay.php?91-Forestry-Equipment


If you need info on left coast logging trucks these guys know it from top to bottom.
Semi-retired...life is good.

plasticweld

Bridget as to the type of wood being hauled, it really does not matter what kind of wood in most cases. I cut almost all hard wood, with the exception of ash most of the time it boils down to what DOT considers a legal load. The configuration of the truck is based more on being capable of carrying many different types of loads. We sell pallet logs, saw logs, fire wood tree length and ash tree length. Most of the times a specialty truck works in only one application. I have worked in the past with trucks that hauled only tree length while it was best for just tree length as soon as the markets changed the set up was near useless for anything else.

Reading your questions I get the impression that you are assuming that as truckers we are choosing trucks based on how we are using them, while that would be great in theory in  reality everything I do to move wood is based on how DOT will effect me. To put things in perspective being a trucker is like the family buying a mini van, it seats six comfortably but the DOT has determined that you can only haul 5 passengers.  The fine for carrying a six person is a $1000 plus dollars. The manufacture designed it to carry 6, you bought it to carry 6 but the law says that you can only carry 5. If you know the cop is on the corner waiting for you either drive a different route or on that day make sure  you only have 5 people. You also know that at some time your going to get caught and have to pay the fine, it becomes just part of business. I run my truck as does anyone else in this business no different than  you would use your mini van

treeslayer2003

a truck is something we have to have to get wood to the mill, but it sure is a head ach.

thenorthman

I don't own a truck, so I can't tell ya all the fine details.

However here in warshington,  I am stuck using self loader log trucks, I don't have a loader or an excavator so I have to hire out the loading and hauling of my logs.

The self loaders are more or less standard tractor trucks some with an extended frame and a drop axle (an extra axle in front of the the drive axles), allowing them to carry a comparable load to a straight truck (no loader).

Like the standard trucks the self loaders carry their trailers piggy back style when not loaded, this allows them to navigate windy mountain roads, in reverse, sometimes for miles, and to get through horrible city traffic just a little easier.  The difference it that the self loader trailer folds in the middle where the straight trucks just sits on top of the cab and headache rack.

The trailers for both self loaders and straight trucks have a telescoping beam called the reach (may be wrong on the name), this allows the trailer to extend or contract to carry various lengths of logs, sometimes as short as 20' and I've seen them as long as 80' or more, but the average is 30-40'.  The trailer is equipped with a stinger that allows it to expand and contract while the truck is turning or going over a hill.  Since the logs are loaded on both the truck and the trailer, there is a difference in pivot points from one to the other, the stinger is designed to allow for this.  The genius behind this design is that the truck counter steers the trailer while the load stays balanced on the truck, allowing the truck to navigate windy mountain roads and crazy switch backs just a little bit easier, without the counter steer in the trailer the trucks would have to make crazy wide turns on single lane narrow dirt roads.

All log trucks have things called bunks, basically book ends for logs, the PNW log trucks have bunks that swivel, once again allowing the load to rotate as the truck turns.

If memory serves, the canadian and BC trucks are set up just a little bit different, the here in the states.  The BC trucks I've seen tend to have and extra set of axles in the middle between the trailer and the tractor, I'm sure its some over thought out safety regulation or some such nonsense.

As far as the load restrictions here in Warshington, I'm not to familiar with them, other than you limited to 100,000 without a special permit, and every axle is rated to carry x pounds, going over that weight is a big happy fine.  You are also limited to 8'6" width, and certain overall lengths.  Hauling two trailers (know as a super train usually one with long logs and a pup with short logs) requires a special endorsement on your CDL (commercial drivers licence).  Most of the trucks I deal with are rated for 86,000 some of the straight trucks could probably drag the full 100,000 and still have legal axle weights. This bigger trucks have a steer axle, drop axle, two drive axles, a tag axle, then the trailer has two standard axles, and a tag axle... making for a 32 wheeler vs the highway standard 18 wheeler...

The other differences from a standard highway truck would at first appear to be cosmetic... they are all function,  shorter bumpers, headache rack, no air deflector over the cab, stiffer frames, toothy offroad tires, and they are almost always filthy... at least by friday.  Some of my favorite local trucks are also some of the oldest, and there fore the meanest...

Now for the offroad trucks... from what I've seen of them, ad 4 feet and some stupid big horse power to everything above.  Then put some one either crazy or not afraid of death in the drivers seat...
well that didn't work

ABTS

Bridget..... No . The trailer is what we call a bunk style with a loader in the middle of the trailer and two bunks in front of loader and two in back. Mostly we haul 8 foot pulp but some times random length saw logs . Rarely are they longer than 20 feet. Very little tree length around here.

Bridget

Wow, you are all giving me some great details, I really appreciate it.  There are lots of points you're bringing up that I haven't even considered.
Quote from: plasticweld on November 22, 2013, 06:08:08 PM
Bridget in NY state, I can haul 77,000

Do these trucks come equipped with on-board computers that are weighing the load on the trailer?  I know this is true for heli-logging, because the weight issue is critical for safety.

When you go to pick up a load, does the driver call the shots as to how much gets loaded on?
Quote from: plasticweld on November 22, 2013, 06:52:15 PM

...being a trucker is like the family buying a mini van, it seats six comfortably but the DOT has determined that you can only haul 5 passengers. 

Is it common for manufacturers to build trucks that can haul more than is legal?  Would this be in hopes that they may be used in off-highway hauling?

Quote from: thenorthman on November 23, 2013, 11:23:55 AM

Now for the offroad trucks... from what I've seen of them, ad 4 feet and some stupid big horse power to everything above.  Then put some one either crazy or not afraid of death in the drivers seat...

Agreed!  I've seen quite a few pictures of these trucks and they're insane!

In your opinion (anyone in the forum):
Do most truck drivers own their own truck or do they work for a trucking company? 

plasticweld

Bridget I never know what  have on until I hit the scales, it is a guessing game based on past experience and I am often surprised. I try to cut it close if I know DOT is around, on the weekend and loads in the evening I load the truck up so I am just under the stakes. I can have on two identical "Looking" loads on the truck and because a load of soft maple and ash will weight 4 or 5 thousands pounds less than the identical looking load of oak and hard maple or hickory. Most cops have no idea what one kind of wood is verses another.

As for the weight, I am convinced it is a way for the state to just raise money. Like I said in the comparison to the mini van, the manufacture built a product that did the job that the customer wanted. You have to be careful you are assuming that the DOT and state do things for logical reasons. To offer you a comparison if you have a tail light on your car and you get pulled over the ticket would be about 65 dollars here, the same infraction with a commercial vehicle the ticket is $250. If they want they can pick apart a brand new truck and find things to write tickets for. It all boils down to what frame of mind they are in and what they are trying to accomplish. We have in this state what they call targeted enforcement weeks for commercial trucks, that week everyone gets tickets if they get pulled over. I have worked in PA where the were doing gas drilling and they targeted those guys fairly often and let me go, Writing hundreds of tickets in a week to the guys driving for the gas company

thenorthman

1: in this area most trucks have on board scales, its easy to go overweight and its a healthy fine if you do.

2: the trucks are overbuilt on purpose, partly because log trucks take a beating, and partly because every state is different on what it considers over weight, for instance CA I believe the max weight is 80k, regardless of axle configuration (as long as the combined axles are rated for 80k or more), whereas in WA its 100k and dependent on your axle configuration.

3:  The drivers tell the loader which axle to load lighter/heavier, if thats what you mean.  The self loader jockeys do what ever they want with how its loaded...

As far as what they get to load, that all depends on the outfit I imagine?  For me its more a matter of species and which mills are buying etc.  Although its kinda tough to sort with just a cable skidder, luckily the only thing I really have to sort out is cotton wood, the rest goes to export, unless its really nice and then it goes to a peeller (no not that kind) in which case I just try to make sepperate piles... but I digress...
well that didn't work

luvmexfood

You may not be interested but on the other end of the spectrum here is what I do. I have a Ford pickup with a two axle 16 ft trailer. I cut and skid by myself on our own land. Use a tractor to skid and a winch and boompole to load. Small time.

However, I am making a living. Can usually haul around 8 logs stacking because I don't have any side standards. Doesn't really matter about the length as much as the highth. Take it back on the farm where a large truck could not possibly go. Load and go. Slow but better than working at McDonalds.

Just an example of the lower end of the spectrum. Puts a roof overhead and food on the table. Never be rich but I haven't found a bridge yet that I would prefer over my house.
Give me a new saw chain and I can find you a rock in a heartbeat.

Birchwood Logging

 

  I live in the mountains of eastern ky and log in very remote areas I haul with single axel medium duty trucks they are much easier to get in to tight places I haul 2 or 3 loads a day and average around 2000 feet a load my truck I use is a 79 ford f700 has a cat disel engine and air breaks I payed $2500 for the truck and have hauled over half a million board feet with it this year I would like to have a newer truck but I don't like that big payment mine is payed for and dose exactly what I need it to do hear is a pic 

 
John Deere 700H with winch, John Deere 550A with winch, Cat 232 Skid Steer,Cat 262c Skid Steer, Wood Mizer Lt 40 super HD, Ford F-700 and F-600 log trucks, Ford F-450 dump truck

plasticweld

Nice load of logs!! surprised that they do not give you a hard time about a lack of head board

wannaergo

Bridget - if you really want to throw off your findings about log trucks, just look into Michigan trucks. They are 11 axle, with either 6 on the truck and 5 on the trailer, or 7 on the truck and 4 on the trailer. They are straight trucks with a loader on the back, pulling a pup trailer. They usually haul around 20-25 cords, and legal limit is around 157,00lb. More often than not, though, they are pushing 180k-200k or else they dont make any money. They determine how much wood to put on, and load it themselves. They beat the crap out of the trucks and the roads, but somehow manage to scrape a living.
2016 Ponsse ergo 8w
2014 Cat 564
Husky 385

Bridget

I can use information on all sizes of truck, thanks for representing the smaller scale luvmexfood and Birchwood Logging.

Wannaergo, can the trucks get bigger than 11 axles?

Are most of the highway legal trucks Kenworth, Western Star and Peterbilt?

Ianab

Here are some current trucks from NZ. Just snaps taken as they came though town.





Returning empty. They always haul the trailer on the truck like that. It's easier than towing an empty trailer (the bounce all over the place) and they are taxed on legal weight x miles driven on both the tuck and the trailer. Cuts the mileage on the trailer in 1/2 by carrying it, so 25% less road tax  ;)



If you look closely you can see the kit on the truck's drive wheels for adjusting the tire pressure from the cab. They will drop the tire pressure for better traction off-road, and then bring it back up to safe open road pressure as needed. The trucks are all fitted with locking or limited slip diffs for traction off road. Some of the places they need to get too are pretty rugged.

Many of the new trucks also have on-board scales scales so the driver can not only have the max legal load, but also it's distributed correctly on the different axles.  The police are pretty strict on trucks here, so most of the cowboys are off the road.

Self loaders are very rare. It adds to the weight of the truck, so that's less logs you carry each load. All the loggers will have a wheel loader or large excavator at the landing to load the truck (and unload the trailer) as will the mills they deliver to.

Ian
Weekend warrior, Peterson JP test pilot, Dolmar 7900 and Stihl MS310 saws and  the usual collection of power tools :)

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