Cutting Burn Wood

[rmack]

I was told a long time ago that wood that came from a forest fire was very hard on equipment because of the abrasive nature of the carbon coating on it... is this true?

[Tree Feller]

I've read the same thing from fallers, that the burned bark dulls their chains very quickly...sawing in the black, they call it.

[clww]

I've talked with loggers and have been told this, too. The worst was ash deposits left over from Mount Saint Helens doing the clean up on the surrounding forests. One tree felled then sharpen the chain, then repeat.

[Peter Drouin]

I cut some burnt wood 20' fur 

 
had to resaw from 10x14" to 8x12" , from a old rr bridge that some one set fire, saw just fine

[fuzzybear]

Fire killed is the NASTIEST stuff to cut. You have black ash all over everything and no matter what you do it does not come out. It gets everywhere on you.
  I wore dust masks for the 2 days I cut that nasty stuff. Went through a mask every hour. You do not want to breath that stuff. Cutting without a mask is like putting your head inside your wood stove and trying to breath.

[Bibbyman]

We had a fire get out of control and burned a rack heap.  It scorched an ash about a foot at the base.   I later cut the tree and tried to saw the log.   I quickly decided it'd make better firewood and put it on the pile to go to the Blockbuster.  The Blockbuster struggled to lop off a chunk.  Then it receded to be split.  It ended up on the slab pile.

[justallan1]

I've cut maybe 20 burned trees and found there is a world of difference after the bark is removed and for whatever reason some of the smaller logs are just full of pitch and you just use them for bunks.
The trees that I am cutting were burned only enough to scorch the needles off and burn partly through the bark, so maybe how much they are burned makes a difference. I think my saw goes through these trees easier than WRC telephone poles.
Allan

[rmack]

thanks, sounds like it's something to stay away from unless it's a small, nice job like resizing some timbers. ;)

[justallan1]

Like Fuzzybear said, it's surely a mess to work with. The way I'm looking at it is it's all free and it's only a couple miles from my house for me so why shouldn't I cut it. There are literally millions of trees to be had right now, so why not. Even if I use extra blades I'm saving on all of the other costs.
Granted, I'm doing this on the side, so I may see things differently.
Allan

[rmack]

Like Fuzzybear said, it's surely a mess to work with. The way I'm looking at it is it's all free and it's only a couple miles from my house for me so why shouldn't I cut it. There are literally millions of trees to be had right now, so why not. Even if I use extra blades I'm saving on all of the other costs.
Granted, I'm doing this on the side, so I may see things differently.
Allan

Are those public or private lands?

[beenthere]

Justallan
You have a good plan to give it a try. I'm thinking you will not find it overly tough on blades or chain, but maybe a bit messy.

[SwampDonkey]

It's messy, it's no harder on saw chains and blades. I never heard of it being so. Not that me hearing of it makes a difference, but all I ever heard about was the mess.

[ohwc]

In my experience running a chainsaw (not a mill) I did not notice a difference in chain wear. However it is definately nasty and dirty. Every refuel and sharpening we would have to knock out the air filters really good.

[justallan1]

The bit that I've sawn IS a big mess, that was part the reasoning of putting my mill on a trailer and taking it to the trees.
I didn't think it was so bad on my chainsaw, but I touch up my chain pretty often.
Rmack, everything I'll be sawing is from private land.
Allan

[tyb525]

I don't see why carbon would be harder on blades than the wood itself. Wood is carbon based after all (like all living things). Ash from a volcano might be abrasive though, that stuff is more like a mineral isn't it?

[Jemclimber]

Diamonds are carbon. Carbon in different forms can be of varying hardness.  Saw them and decide if it's worth it.

[beenthere]

Ash from a volcano might be abrasive though, that stuff is more like a mineral isn't it?

tyb is right, as the gritty ash from the volcano eruptions is nothing like the carbon powder left after a burn.
Rub some off and roll between your fingers, and I find it is just dirty.

[Brucer]

I've only sawn a little burnt wood. The biggest problem is that the heat of a fire will harden the wood just beneath the burnt area. The heat can also precipitate minerals out of the sap. Both are hard on blades.

[SwampDonkey]

Minerals in sap are in solution when they move up the tree, the heat of fire doesn't change them. For instance, northern white cedar is hard on blades because of silica, no fire involved. It is conceivable however that if dry wood of a species is hard to saw, it will be hard sawing when dried out by fire. But what really is the difference? Charcoal and black on your clothes?

[fuzzybear]

Minerals in sap are in solution when they move up the tree, the heat of fire doesn't change them. For instance, northern white cedar is hard on blades because of silica, no fire involved. It is conceivable however that if dry wood of a species is hard to saw, it will be hard sawing when dried out by fire. But what really is the difference? Charcoal and black on your clothes?

And up your nose, and in your ears, under your cap, and how the heck did it get in my shorts?  and did I mention It does not come out of clothing? It is not only charcoal, but a type of oil also.
  I find it funny that loggers are exposed to doses of this "charcoal" that would have coal miners cringing at the thought, but there is no protection funding from the guberment to protect a loggers lungs like a miners. "go and cut, it will be OK, never mind what it's going to do to your health in the long term" this seems to be the official stance on fire killed logging.
FB

[beenthere]

fuzzybear
Who is being forced to cut burned timber?
Curious too where the "official stance" is coming from.

[SwampDonkey]

This day in age, no one has to work where they feel unsafe or their health is at risk. For these two reasons you can refuse work.

[justallan1]

Nowadays working around cattle I find myself digging stuff out of my mouth, nose, eyes and ears that make a little charcoal sound pretty good. Turning wrenches, it's a good day when I get to climb under something in the shop or on a road, the other 90% of the time I'm in a puddle of water, oil or whatever.
I have a resume that says I should be making more money working indoors, but what's the fun in that! ;D
Allan

[tyb525]

I watched a show about a charcoal making operation, apparently the owner (old guy), exposed to the dust daily, was in the hospital for something and his lungs checked out clean as could be. Of course that's just what they said.

[SwampDonkey]

Best suit up before cleaning the flu, the stove pipes and the ashes. ;D

[fuzzybear]

fuzzybear
Who is being forced to cut burned timber?
Curious too where the "official stance" is coming from.

That was what our Territorial guberment was trying to force on us with new forestry regulations. They wanted to force us all to cut out of these large tracts after a fire.  The largest logging operation here did it once. He said never again.  He cuts to supply his own large scale mill. It was to hard on equipment, ie: more frequent oil changes, 4 times more filter changes.  He had to truck in a shower house for his crew to use at the end of the day because they were just to dirty to climb into their own vehicles.
  My experiance is with the Boreal forest, mostly spruce, and totally wild. I imagine it would be different in a southern forest with a larger mix of hardwood trees.
  When there is a fire here the policy is to let it burn unless it's in a populated area. Every few years there are large fires that are in an area that is easily accesable.  None of us want to touch it for at least 3 years. The trees keep until then. The year after the fire they are still very much green, but way to black to work with.  After a few years to the elements they are still a mess, but not as bad.
Unfortunatly one of our guberment officials thought we should be working these burns the following year, and ignore the vast stands of trees that are dying due to disease, insects, flooding.  Fortunatly, they changed their minds, and are now making them accessible by option.
 

Best suit up before cleaning the flu, the stove pipes and the ashes. ;D

I don't suit up for that, but if I had to work 12 hours a day, 6 days a week in that stuff I would want some sort of protection for my lungs.
FB

[SwampDonkey]

No doubt about it. An occupational hazard for a chimney sweep. But my grandfather had cut in burnt land, by hand, over the years and never had any lung problems, lived a long life.

[francismilker]

I cut several burnt logs about a month ago and the way I dealt with the dust and charcoal was to put foaming detergent in my 1500psi pressure washer and coat the logs with a little foam after I loaded them on the mill.  It wet the dust down just enough to keep it settled and I didn't have any problems at all with it.  I wouldn't bat an eye about doing it again.  All the charcoal water and black soot absorbed quickly to the erc sawdust under the mill.

I washed the sawmill bed and carriage down real well with plain water when I was finished and by the next morning you couldn't tell I'd ever sawed burnt logs. 

Now the outslabs it made was a different story.  My son looked like he'd just slid down my fireplace on Christmas Eve!  In the future I'll send them straight to the burn pile off the mill.

[Brucer]

Minerals in sap are in solution when they move up the tree, the heat of fire doesn't change them.

This is true of suspended solids like silica. Minerals can also be in soluble form, in which case they will precipitate out when exposed to high heat. The precipitate is a solid and can be hard on blades.

[SwampDonkey]

Very very minute concentration. Certainly not forming a block of salt inside the wood.

[johnjbc]

Years ago we got to cut some fire killed Oak in South Jersey. It was small, 6" to 8" and most of the bark didn't burn clear through and took the dirt with it when it fell off. It was some of the best firewood  ever cut. I remember setting in front of the fireplace and talking about the blue flames it was making.