Looking for log value...

[Ever Green]

I'm cutting a small lot which is full of hard/soft maple.  I want to bid the logs out for the land owner.  What would be the best way for me to get the word out?  I'm cutting in Colden NY...35 or so miles south of Buffalo.  The job is about half done...hopefully the logs I do have bucked will not float away...its pouring here...I was not part of the tree selection.  The land owner had a forester come in and mark the trees...but could not find any one to cut such a small lot(about 50 trees).  So here I am...Whats maple going for in this neck of the woods...lot of 16's and straight.  Should be some high quality saw logs...I'm getting a percentage and the tops...so just looking to do the best I can for both of us...Thanks

[Ron Wenrich]

There's a couple of ways to do it.  You could just call up a mill and ask them to scale and grade the logs out and be done with it.  I suggest you also scale the logs ahead of time so you know what you have.

Or you could actually market the logs.  But, your bucking is what will make or break the sale.  If you aren't bucking for grade, you're not going to make as much. 

Veneer hard maple is worth pretty much.  I have heard $4, it may be higher.  For sawlogs, they can go anywhere from $50/Mbf to $1500 on hard maple, and $50/Mbf to $775 for soft maple.  A lot depends on size and quality.  Here's a mills spec sheet in Portlandville, NY.    http://www.wightmanlumber.com/logprices.htm   Not an endorsement of the mill, since I have never been in contact with them.  Use your own judgement.

You should get in contact with several mills to see their specs and prices.  Some mills don't pay much for low grade, some do.  Quite often it pays to seperate and market, even just 50 trees.

[Ever Green]

Ron,,,thanks for the info...when you say mbf...help me out here...board feet?  Whats the "m" for?  I'm still a novice...as far as grading.  When you say seperate, what do you mean...any knowledge you can share with me would be great...i'm a sponge for it.  Feel free to ramble...i want to learn!!

Thanks
Vince

[Phorester]

The m is for 1000.  So mbf is thousand board feet.  This is a standard quantity measurement for trees and logs. 

Separate means choosing for the highest value per log.  For example, low quality logs may go for railroad ties or fence boards.  High value logs will go for veneer.

Do what Ron suggests.  Get as many mills as possible to look at these logs and bid on them.  I expect some of them will also give you advice on how to buck logs to get the highest grade out of them.

If you continue to do this, you need to get training. Maybe your Landgrant University offers these  classes.

[Ever Green]

land grant university?

[beenthere]

Ever Green
What has been the criteria for bucking the logs you've done so far?  Certain length? Any limits on straightness of log?  Limits on size of defect (Bark characteristic) allowed?  There are some FS publications that tell about grading logs to get an idea how the grades work. Often it boils down to the number of clear faces (four in all) which indicate the grade of lumber (or veneer quality) beneath the bark surface. Smooth surface without bumps and defect indicators swirling in the bark are what make up a clear face.

If a buyer looks at the logs, you will want them scattered out on the ground so's they can look at them, otherwise they will downgrade the whole stack if just the ends are showing, I've been told. And if you are there when they look at them, and offer to roll them over to see the whole log, that is said to help the price as well.

[Ever Green]

I've been looking at length.  I'm trying to get a nice log...be it 8 10 12 16.  I did a job last year 17mbf.  Yes, I did have them all set out...very easy to look at 3 sides....and both ends...So I guess I'm doing the best I can...I know a retired timber buyer...maybe He could help me out.  He worked at fitz & weller in Ellicottville Ny...His name is Joe Kuhn

[Corley5]

I don't about other regions but here in N Mich mills don't want hardwood grade logs any longer than 12'  Ten footers are the most common cut unless you can get a twelve with no change in grade.  Eights bring less $$ than 10 and twelves

[Ron Wenrich]

Here in the East, you can get rid of grade anywhere between 8' and 16'.  In tulip poplar, there are markets for 13' & longer.  I've sold total trailerload lots of 16/4 F1F & btr, 14-16' long.  A lot depends on the markets, but you can easily get better grade from a long log than you can a short one.

The Forest Service has a grading system for logs.  However, I don't know of a single mill that uses it.  Its a shame, since the FS did a lot of work concerning yields of these logs.  I have used their tree grading system.

Most mills will have a certain type of grade.  That is due to their particular mill set up and lumber markets.  For example, I know of mills that will not cut a railroad tie.  So, they don't buy a RR grade of tie.  Some mills don't want low grade, so they drive the price down so low that they won't get any.

Most mills buy grade, but grades vary from mill to mill.  What might be a #1 at one mill is a #2 at another.  And just because the price of #1 is good at a mill, doesn't mean that you'll be getting any.

Veneer has to be clean.  Lengths on them vary, but the most popular lengths are 8 & 10'.  take your clean logs and put them to the side.  They also have to be above 13" diameter inside bark (dib) on the small end.  You may even be able to sell the soft maple.  You're in a pretty good area.

Defect should be kept near the end of a log.  The longer a log, the more defect you'll be allowed.  Keeping defect on the end means that it can be cut off at the sawmill if need be.  Those long, clear sections will yield the necessary cutting units to make the better grades of lumber. 

By all means get that retired timber buyer out there.  He's a great resource and will be able to tell you which mills to stay away from, which mills buy what, and which mills are good guys.  He also should be able to give you a great heads up on veneer buyers.  He would also be a great guy to have visit us here on the forum (hint, hint).   ;)

[Riles]

Land grant universities were funded by the sale of federal lands. There is one in every state. The string that generally came with the land was the university has to have "agriculture and mechanical" programs in the curriculum and they usually run the extension programs in the state. The forestry program in most states is at the land grant university. (LSU is the land grant university in LA, but their forestry program is dying out. La Tech has the active program).

[jon12345]

I found this on the DEC website, it is a PDF file.  The link below that one lets you view older reports.

Summer 2006 Price List

Stumpage Report

[Phorester]

New York's Land Grant University is Cornell.  They offer extension courses in forestry, but I don't know what specific courses they are.

In Virginia, VA Tech offers extension courses in forestry (See the thread in Forest Education about the woodland mgmt. course I'm helping teach right now).  They also offer at the college courses open to the public in cruising, log grading, etc.  Usually once every 2 - 3 years.

[Ever Green]

I did talk with my retired friend...he did also back up what CORLEY 5 said...10 and 12's...he is going to come out and help me with lengths and grading...also he will help with the bidding process...he loves to talk so I just listen...I would love to take some forestry classes via cornel... where can I find out more?

[Phorester]

Contact your local County Extension Agent.  They will be in the government pages of your phone book.

Or look up Cornell University in the Internet.  But I'd try your local Agent first.