How many acres to be sustainable ?

farlet · February 01, 2010, 10:22:15 AM

Hello from the UK

We are planning to move to Sweden soon, and want to buy some woods up in the north (About 100 miles south of artic circle). Does anyone have a feel for how many acres/hectares you would need to be able to take firewood and some wood for building for ourself and still be sustainable long term.

We were thinking something like 25-35 acres, but this is based purely on gut feel.

Any help would be greatly appreciated

fishpharmer · February 01, 2010, 10:33:48 AM

farlet, welcome to Forestry Forum, its really a great place. I cannot give you an experienced answer. Surely others here can. Member Plickitycat comes to mind as she is living in a similar environment in Alaska with her husband.

https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php/topic,40554.msg583356.html#msg583356

Purely out of curiosity, what are Swedish land prices?

Bro. Noble · February 01, 2010, 10:37:38 AM

It would be helpful if you gave a little info on species that grow there, what size building you plan to heat, and the growing conditions.

Here in the Qzarks, I'd feel more comfortable with 80 acres to do what you are suggesting. It sounds like our heating requirements would be less and our growth rate more than it would be 100 miles from the artic circle.

farlet · February 01, 2010, 10:44:35 AM

Not sure on the species yet, mostly pines and birch. We plan to build a small cabin and a workshop, both from logs, and heat them through the long winter with logs. There are only two of us. We will go off grid and generate our own electricity for lighting, etc...

Land prices in Northern Sweden seem to be very reasonable, but I am comparing to the the UK where they are ridiculously expensive.

Magicman · February 01, 2010, 01:06:37 PM

First, Welcome to The Forestry Forum.

Warbird lives in Fairbanks, Alaska, so he might be helpful with your question. My experience, having traveled to the Arctic Circle, is that trees are smaller as you go North, and it gets more barren and tundra like. To me, your acrerage seems small.

I would definately want to see before taking the leap.

petefrom bearswamp · February 01, 2010, 03:59:14 PM

Welcome to the forum.
Sweden being a fairly progressive and modern country, I imagine you can get the info you require from their forestry department.
Try googling
Pete

WDH · February 01, 2010, 07:24:07 PM

I agree with Bro. Noble. If you need 1 hectare per year to meet your wood consumption, and if it takes 50 to 80 years to grow a good sized tree in your climate, you need 1 hectare per year of the rotation. Find out how many years that it takes in your climate to grow a tree of desired size, then figure out how many hectares/year you need to harvest, and you have your answer. It sounds like an ambitious project. Best of luck and keep us posted on your progress.

Ron Wenrich · February 01, 2010, 08:29:56 PM

We have a few members from Sweden. One that comes to mind goes by the name of Swede. Here's his profile:

https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?action=profile;u=1021

He was last on a couple of weeks ago. Send him a PM and I'm sure he can help you out. He would know a whole lot more about it than any of us over here.

Jasperfield · February 01, 2010, 08:39:01 PM

I'm with Magicman. I would suppose that if you're going to saw some of it for housing and then depend on the remaining trees for heat you may become a little paranoid of running short. Especially that far North.

And if that's the case, you might tend to under heat your home.

If land there is cheap, as I suspect it would be, I'd get all I could while the gettin's good.

SwampDonkey · February 02, 2010, 06:27:50 AM

Depends on the climate, if it's like northern Canada, north of the Prairie provinces, the southern half of the Yukon and the southwest and the Mackenzie river area of the NWT would contain significant forest lands, beyond that it's pretty much scrub and barren, even northern Quebec and Labrador is pretty much non productive. But, I have no idea about the climate in Sweden and as Ron says, just ask those that do know. ;)

farlet · February 02, 2010, 01:27:14 PM

Thanks for all of your replies. I think that we will need to up our acreage considerably. This isnt really a problem as we have the budget to buy plenty of land.

We are planning to go as soon as the snow melts in the spring and then again in summer and hopefully buy our land then. We have been plenty in the snow, but need to see it more in the spring/summer. From our winter visits, it looks like nice forest with plenty of good useable timber.

SwampDonkey · February 02, 2010, 02:35:05 PM

Good luck Farley Mowat ;)

REGULAR GUY · February 03, 2010, 01:35:55 AM

Quote from: farlet on February 01, 2010, 10:22:15 AM
Hello from the UK

We are planning to move to Sweden soon, and want to buy some woods up in the north (About 100 miles south of artic circle). Does anyone have a feel for how many acres/hectares you would need to be able to take firewood and some wood for building for ourself and still be sustainable long term.

We were thinking something like 25-35 acres, but this is based purely on gut feel.

Any help would be greatly appreciated

8)
I worked in the log woods in southern Finland and the trees are small there, Pine,Birch and Spruce for the most part. Been up north and the timber is next to nothing far as size goes. Hope ya got tons of skeeter repellent for the summer months when your out there fishing in them beautiful lakes and rivers! Flat out fierce gorgeous country but I don't think even a hectare will get ya noplace if ya wanna be sustainable. Don't know about Sweden but Finland had fierce strict building regs even when building way out in the sticks, don't imagine they wouldn't be about the same. Good luck, Ya'll Lycka Till!!!!!

Magicman · February 03, 2010, 09:54:05 PM

Regular Guy.....Welcome to The Forestry Forum....

groundguy · February 03, 2010, 11:52:55 PM

I can take a stab at an answer for you.... assuming you need 8 cords per year for heating,

that = 30m3 per year. Down on the coast here at 50 degree latitude, a good growing site can produce 8m3/ha/year.

Asssuming a much lower capacity as you will be so far north, using 2m3/ha/year, you would need at least 15 ha of productive land just to provide enough for firewood. That would be assuming the wood is already at or near firewood size. If you have rock/swamp/ or other non-productive areas on the property, that is a major factor.

No idea how much lumber you would hope to mill of the land, that is more complicated than firewood for lots of reasons - is the wood big enough and suitable species for dimension lumber? Some of the swayer types could tackle that issue.

Mt gut feel is in line with Magicman,,, 100 acres as a minimum, provided it was all productive land.

Good luck!

groundguy · February 03, 2010, 11:57:46 PM

As another member mentioned, Sweden is one of the leaders in forestry, I am sure there is a lot of info on land capability freely available on the net.

timberjane · May 24, 2010, 05:15:34 PM

Hi there!
This may be a late reply, but I give it a shot.
Maybe you´ve already moved here?
however, you would not be to concerd about firewood. There are a huge market in Sweden because fire wood is popular for heating here. If you run out of wood you can almost go to the nearest neighbour and buy firewood, or at least get connection to buy.
You can buy both whole logs or ready, splitted firewood.

If you realized your plans and still want to be self supporting for firewood in this area a wild guess would be at least 30 hectares of productable forestland would work. Of that said that you plan to heat a normal building.

There is an Scandinavian forestry forum (based in Sweden) that you can check out, plenty of good information and helpers.

Best of luck!