iDRY Vacuum Kilns

Sponsors:

Researching planers-any information would be appreciated

Started by oakiemac, February 14, 2010, 12:06:10 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

oakiemac

I have been getting some big jobs to plane several thousand feet at a time. I currently have a woodmaster 18" planer which is basically a toy. I need a real machine that can do this job effiecently.
I have been looking at some different models have narrowed it down to a few but I'm still researching so I would definately consider others as well. Here is the list so far.

Brand spanking new Grizzly/powermatic 18-20". Good thing about these are that they are new so no maintenance issuses and should have a warrenty. con is that I'm not convinced that they will be heavy duty enough and they all have a solid infeed roller bar so I'm not sure if feeding in more then one board at a time will work.

Older model 225 Powermatic or Oliver 299: These seem to be the way to go if you can find one in good shape. They are huge beast that can hog off a 1/2" at a time which would greatly reduce planing time. Con side to these machines are their physical foot print is some thing like 60x40" and I dont have a lot of extra room. Other con is possible high maintenance issuses. I dont want to work on planers-I want them to work for me. I work 2 jobs so time is one of the most important issues for me. I cant afford to be constantly dinking with anything.

Northfield N0. 7: These planers seem to be the best made of them all and Northfield is still in business and making these machines right here in the good old US of A. That is a big plus in my book. I hate buying chinese/twainese crap. The features on these machines seem to be exactly what I'm looking for. Segmented infeed rollers (4 of them), reversable infeed motor, chromed pressure bar, can take big bites off the lumber like 1/2".  Con is the price on a newer model. Their brand new 18" cost something like $16000! Other cons are the same as the older powermatics and olivers. I have found a few older 1960's 24 inchers for around $7000 which is more then I wanted to spend, however they seem to be the best of the best.

Any opinions on these or other models?
Mobile Demension sawmill, Bobcat 873 loader, 3 dry kilns and a long "to do" list.

laffs

look on the machinery exchange on wood web and xfactory
good luck
Brent
timber harvester,tinberjack230,34hp kubota,job ace excavator carpenter tools up the yingyang,

jwoods

Oakiemac,

I've got a 20" Shopfox, same as the powermatic/grizzly.  I had a 20" Powermatic for 2 weeks, but it never would work correctly, I don't think the pressure bar was right from the factory.  I've stood in front of it for hours, planing out big quantities of lumber.  It's fine for 200 board feet, but for commercial runs I wouldn't recommend it.

Personal experience also says that the solid infeed shows "planer hop" when you try to feed in more than 1 board at a time. 

I agree same as laffs, I would shop on ex-factory for something used.

I wish I had one to trade for your molder.

Joe

Larry

Planners in that class have all been rode hard.  Like rolling the dice if you were to buy one.  I saw a Powermatic 225 went for $300 at auction couple of months ago.  The buyer was a used machinery dealer...bet you can buy the same machine for ten times the amount and guaranteed only used by a little old lady on Sundays.

A lot of Whitney machines are seen in this area, along with some Whitney/Newmans.  Sent you a link on a machine that might be worthy of investigation.  Other than seeing a few run, I don't know nothing about them.

   
Larry, making useful and beautiful things out of the most environmental friendly material on the planet.

We need to insure our customers understand the importance of our craft.

laffs

how well do one of those gizzlys run? do you they make them for 8" thickness?
timber harvester,tinberjack230,34hp kubota,job ace excavator carpenter tools up the yingyang,

laffs

i checked out grizzly sight, there a bit picey and slow $3400 machine max speed is 26fpm
timber harvester,tinberjack230,34hp kubota,job ace excavator carpenter tools up the yingyang,

laffs

maybe you should see if you could do a rent or short term lease on a machine, that way you could test it befor you plunk down a lot of money on a machine that doesnt fit your needs.
Brent
timber harvester,tinberjack230,34hp kubota,job ace excavator carpenter tools up the yingyang,

Kelvin

IRS auctions is the place to go for used machinery.  A few weeks later they are on Exfactory for 10x's the price after being dusted and waxed... maybe.  The trick is to wait till their is an auction in your part of the country.  Seems most of them are down south where the industry is currently dying.  One benefit is that you can tell if the machine is acutally in service at the time of sale.  That way even if its an old one, at least they were using it, where as the machine dealers coulda dragged out of someones barn where it sat for 20yrs.  I'd avoid the machinery resellers like the plague, unless you had something very specific you were about ready to buy brand new and time was of the essence. 
KP

oakiemac

Auctions scare the daylights out of me. Mostly someone elses junk, but if the price were right then I might consider an auction machine.
X-factory and MLS are probably just as bad because they are just resellers of stuff they bought from IRS auctions.
I know of a few machine dealers like Robert Ivens in milwalkee that actually (supposedly) go over the machine and offer a warenty. Ivens happens to be currently out of machines right now.

I guess I'm looking for more info on what type of machine to get rather then where to buy it. Does anyone that has surfaced large runs used some of the above mentioned machines are do they use different types?
Had a nice talk with Red Oaks and he recommended a 4 sided planer. Still trying to contact the dealer he referenced. Probably a double or 4 sided planer would be the best way to go but I'm not sure that I have the power requirements. ???

Thanks for all the input.
Mobile Demension sawmill, Bobcat 873 loader, 3 dry kilns and a long "to do" list.

Ironwood

Oakie,

There are some good units out there. I have two, a Powermatic 225 from 1970 that had spent much of it's time in a commercial display fabricators shop in Cleveland. It was little used and in good shape. Also, I have an Oliver 30" model 361 that came out of an adult learning center in Pittsburgh. It saw VERY little use and is in immacculate condition. So, what I would say is, if the units can be SEEN, and or by someone you trust, then some good units are out there. I too avoid IRS, and even GovLiq, for anything other than bargin basement/ unusual / unwanted stuff. There are alot of folks out there painting things up for listings online that are spent/ hammered.

I just missed hooking you up w/ a clean 299 Oliver w/ an itch head very resonable. Like around $5000.

I do need to sell my Powermatic at some time in the future. I will then need to move my Oliver 361 into my building.  I do have other 361's that are not as clean. They are big units, but bulletproof once up and running. We have a few BIG mills running 361's and 261's for production. We could talk if your willing to commit to that size of a unit. I would be will ing ot let the REALLY clean unit.

Ironwood
There is no scarcity of opportunity to make a living at what you love to do, there is only scarcity of resolve to make it happen.- Wayne Dyer

ARKANSAWYER

  I have a Grizzly 15 inch planer.  It has been a good machine and planed alot of lumber.  Some days it runs all day long.  It is by no means in the class of them big Olivers but for less then a grand it has been a good machine.  I can pick up the phone and get parts for it and blades are not a problem.  It will only take off 1/8 of an inch so it is slower then some others.
  Up in the $8 to $9 grand they have 24 inch models that can take about 1/4 inch a pass and are pretty heavy duty and run on 3 phase.  There is a lesser one about $5 grand that is a pretty good machine.  It will most likley be my next one.  But there is a big Grizzly Store just 100 miles from me.
ARKANSAWYER

pasbuild

Are you after a S4S finish or just skip planed to 15/16ths?  If your after the later I would consider a two sided abrasive planer.
If it can't be nailed or glued then screw it

oakiemac

Ironwood-I'll give you a call.

Arky-can you feed two or more boards through at once if one board is slightly thicker then the other? From my experience the solid feed rollers dont do a very good job of this, but then again my feed rollers are rubber.

Pasbuild-we just did a job where it was only skip planed to 15/16 but a lot of times we need it to 3/4 and some times S4S.
Mobile Demension sawmill, Bobcat 873 loader, 3 dry kilns and a long "to do" list.

sawwood

Oakiemac what do you mean Woodmaster is a toy? I have had my 18" for 5 years now and have planed servial thousand
bf of rough lumber with out any trouble. Last year i upgraded to the spiral head cutter and outfeed table. sure made a lot
of diff's in the sound and gave me more time feeding a new board in. I am now looking for a used 18" to set up as gange
saw unit as we will have our solar kiln going soon. The outher older planers i have seen all had 3ph motors so that left us
out on them. hope you find what you want in a biger heaver planer.

Sawwood
Norwood M4 manual mill, Solar Kiln, Woodmaster
18" planer/molder

ARKANSAWYER


  My 15 inch can do two boards or three at a time but if one is a bit high the others will just wait till the thick one goes on through.  Most of the time it is not a problem.  The larger Grizzlys had split infeeds and seem to feed fine.  We send alot of ours through the Grizzly and then when the pop out they are 15/16 and then we send them through the PH260 and they come out 3/4 on the money.
   I would like to have a G9741 in 480V 3ph.
ARKANSAWYER

oakiemac

Sawwood, maybe toy was not the right word but it is all relative. The woodmasters just arent industrail. They are good for small jobs when time is not a big factor. You said that you have had it for 5 years and planed several thousand feet, what if you had to plane 3000 feet in a few days? I think you would agree that it is not the machine for that job and it is not the machines fault because it was never designed for that kind of work.
I have a job right now to make flooring blanks out of about 3000bf of Hickory. The woodmaster is agonizingly slow-it takes about 3-4 passes for each board to get to required thickness.
Mobile Demension sawmill, Bobcat 873 loader, 3 dry kilns and a long "to do" list.

Ironwood

There is no scarcity of opportunity to make a living at what you love to do, there is only scarcity of resolve to make it happen.- Wayne Dyer

taw6243

Sounds like you just need more power, also remember that if your belts are not tightened properly then you won't be able to use this machine to it's full potential.
I've got a 725 Woodmaster with the 7.5 hp continuous duty motor with the auto leveling extension tables. I just got done planing 4500 board feet of fresh cut soft maple that was 1 and 1/8 th thick to 15/16th on one side only. That's 3/16th of an inch removed in one pass. It took 13 hours it was over six pickup truck loads of planer chips produced. There were two of us feeding boards 5 and 1/2 inch wide each four boards wide going thru the planer the whole time. Definitely not a toy. These were frozen, had ice on them in places and I didn't even have to put on the steel serrated roller on the in feed side. Even though I do have on hand just in case I need it that woodmaster sold me. It's a great machine. I wouldn't be without the auto leveling tables on in feed and out feed. It gives you a nine foot bed but can be folded out of the way if needed. I Bought Every gadget they had to offer so I could do a lot of different things. I already had a vac-trac trailer that is 4' x4' x 6' with an 8 Hp blower that came with my kubota L3010mower. This worked very well with the planer. I started out with my belts being loose directly from the factory. I could not believe the difference when tightened properly. This machine can take off 5/16th in one pass with no problem.
4500 hours on my 2004 LT40HDG28, CBN sharpener and auto setter, 25" woodmaster planer with 9'auto leveling bed and trac vac chip handling system, 1998 L3010 kubota, 2010 L3200 kubota Festool TS75 rail saw with 42", 75" and 106" rails.

oakiemac

I have the 7.5hp motor on my 718. I keep going through feed rollers like mad. I'm on my third set. Seems like the wood just eats them up.
The extension tables might be of some help to support the lumber, but I hesitate to invest more in this planer.  I just replaced the infeed roller and I still cant send through more then one board at a time with out them coming out wavy. The sheet metal decking is bent in places and the constant requirement of having to clean the rubber rollers make this a high maintenance low output machine.
But I'm glad you like yours.
Mobile Demension sawmill, Bobcat 873 loader, 3 dry kilns and a long "to do" list.

Ironwood

Beliveve it or not, try duct tape. One guy in Auburn NY runs several for custom wood mouldings and has his feed rolls all duct taped. He swore by it, and given you have extras, I would give it a try. Just add a few layers over the rubber rolls and see what happens. Can't hurt. He always told me to keep my eye out for more of these machines in the 5 HP or bigger models, I guess some came w/ 3HP.


Ironwood
There is no scarcity of opportunity to make a living at what you love to do, there is only scarcity of resolve to make it happen.- Wayne Dyer

taw6243

I forgot to mention the most important thing about my planer is that I also purchased the polypropylene bed cover (very slippery), that would make a world of difference to me if I didn't have it. As it will for you too, once you order it. If you need the slots that are cut in it for bolting moulding guides, order it from Woodmaster. If you don't make moulding, get the solid sheets, I think I would just order it straight from a company like McMaster-Carr, (supplies products used to maintain manufacturing plants and large commercial facilities worldwide.)
www.mcmaster.com/
That way the slots don't catch the ends of your boards like it does mine sometimes.
Tim
4500 hours on my 2004 LT40HDG28, CBN sharpener and auto setter, 25" woodmaster planer with 9'auto leveling bed and trac vac chip handling system, 1998 L3010 kubota, 2010 L3200 kubota Festool TS75 rail saw with 42", 75" and 106" rails.

oakiemac

I do have the poly board but havent used it too much because of exactly what you said that happens. The ends of the boards catch on the slots.

Where are you located taw6243? I'm near Decatur.
Mobile Demension sawmill, Bobcat 873 loader, 3 dry kilns and a long "to do" list.

taw6243

I'm in Muskegon, Mi.
231 830 7253
4500 hours on my 2004 LT40HDG28, CBN sharpener and auto setter, 25" woodmaster planer with 9'auto leveling bed and trac vac chip handling system, 1998 L3010 kubota, 2010 L3200 kubota Festool TS75 rail saw with 42", 75" and 106" rails.

timbob

Not sure what you decided but I run an older powermatic 180. Pretty stout and heavy. Its same as ironwoods or slightly narrower. If you are looking for a newer one there is a used newer delta for sale not to far from me. Used Delta RC-51 20" Planer+Fully Functional

*Model #: 22460
*Serial #: 2840
*Year: 1989
*20" cut
*9" depth
*240/480
*3 Phase

He has trying to sell it for $2400

Thank You Sponsors!