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Price for sawing

Started by millwright, August 09, 2017, 08:42:19 PM

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millwright

When sawing by the BF, do you charge say 25 cents for 1" thick then 50 cents for 2" etc

WV Sawmiller

   It works out that way but bf is bf whether 4/4 or 8/4 lumber. I charge the same for a stack of lumber 8'L X 2' high X 4' wide whether that is a stack of 12 2X's or 24 1X's.

   I just saw what the customer wants then tally up the height, length and width to determine the bf sawed and multiply by my sawing rate.
Howard Green
WM LT35HDG25(2015) , 2011 4WD F150 Ford Lariat PU, Kawasaki 650 ATV, Stihl 440 Chainsaw, homemade logging arch (w/custom built rear log dolly), JD 750 w/4' wide Bushhog brand FEL

Dad always said "You can shear a sheep a bunch of times but you can only skin him once

millwright

I do the same, that seems to be a fair way for the sawyer and the customer, thanks for the reply.

POSTON WIDEHEAD

I take my Logrite ruler and measure the small end of each log.
If its a good straight log.....thats more lumber for the customer.

If the log is crooked.....then the customer will not yield has much board footage as the ruler indicated.
The older I get I wish my body could Re-Gen.

paul case

I thought you charged $300.

PC
life is too short to be too serious. (some idiot)
2013 LT40SHE25 and Riehl edger,  WM 94 LT40 hd E15. Cut my sawing ''teeth'' on an EZ Boardwalk
sawing oak.hickory,ERC,walnut and almost anything else that shows up.
Don't get phylosophical with me. you will loose me for sure.
pc

Tom the Sawyer

Millwright,

This is one of the most frequently raised topics on the Forum. There are a wide range of methods; you'll need to consider your location, the type of equipment, and several other factors in order to reach the most appropriate method for your situation.

Although it may come down to either charging by the hour, or by the board foot, even then there are variations.  Some charge by the hour; from the time they arrive to the time they leave.  Others may use the hour meter on the mill to determine the number of hours (and many other variations).

In your original question, let's assume that you mill a log that yields 200 board feet (understanding that you wouldn't get the same yield from a log of 4/4 versus 8/4); if you charged .25 per board foot for 4/4 you would net $50.  If you charged .50 p/bf for 8/4, you would net $100 for half as many cuts/boards.  That doesn't seem fair to me.

I normally charge by the board foot, and fees vary by the thickness; thicker boards are less per board foot.  Hourly rate is my "fail safe" for low-yield milling; shorts, small diameter, specialty milling like cookies, etc.  It does take a few minutes longer to figure up the invoice at the end of the day, but I do it on a tablet which calculates the board footage, and the milling fee.  IMO, it is fair for both sides.

I strongly encourage you to get an accurate handle on what it costs you to operate your mill.  Setting your fees before you know your costs can be disastrous.  It certainly is not a one-size-fits-all process.
07 TK B-20, Custom log arch, 20' trailer w/log loading arch, F350 flatbed dually dump.  Piggy-back forklift.  LS tractor w/FEL, Bobcat S250 w/grapple, Stihl 025C 16", Husky 372XP 24/30" bars, Grizzly 20" planer, Nyle L200M DH kiln.
If you call and my wife says, "He's sawin logs", I ain't snoring.

WV Sawmiller

Tom,

   I understand and agree if that works for you. I fear I would chase off many customers if I had different rates for different thickness, length and diameter. In my case I use only bf and hourly. As you discuss specialty sawing is hourly as is short, small, crooked, QS, etc.. that takes too much of my time.

   The analysis you describe is a good idea. Each sawyer should have a decent understanding of his costs and ensure he is profitable IMO. Sometimes the best you job you have is the one you refuse.
Howard Green
WM LT35HDG25(2015) , 2011 4WD F150 Ford Lariat PU, Kawasaki 650 ATV, Stihl 440 Chainsaw, homemade logging arch (w/custom built rear log dolly), JD 750 w/4' wide Bushhog brand FEL

Dad always said "You can shear a sheep a bunch of times but you can only skin him once

Tom the Sawyer

WV,

I agree that three variables would be confusing, I only have one - thickness.  Most clients only have two or three thicknesses; if I tell them that 4/4 is .50 p/bf and 8/4 is .40 p/bf, no one has had any difficulty understanding. 

Understanding the different ways of setting fees should be helpful, no matter which a new sawyer picks.  Fortunately, as independent businesses, we can choose the methodology that best suits our market and philosophy. 
07 TK B-20, Custom log arch, 20' trailer w/log loading arch, F350 flatbed dually dump.  Piggy-back forklift.  LS tractor w/FEL, Bobcat S250 w/grapple, Stihl 025C 16", Husky 372XP 24/30" bars, Grizzly 20" planer, Nyle L200M DH kiln.
If you call and my wife says, "He's sawin logs", I ain't snoring.

JB Griffin

I just charge .30 bdft straight across or $50 hr.
2000 LT40hyd remote 33hp Kubota with 6gpm hyd unit, 150 Prentice, WM bms250, Suffolk dual tooth setter

Over 3.5million bdft sawn with a Baker Dominator.

WV Sawmiller

Quote from: Tom the Sawyer on August 10, 2017, 05:33:19 PM
if I tell them that 4/4 is .50 p/bf and 8/4 is .40 p/bf, no one has had any difficulty understanding.   
Tom,

   You sound like you are luckier than me if your customers have no difficulty understanding.  :D Most of the time I have to give a lesson on what a bf is and how it is computed as way too many of the people I deal with act like they have never heard of a bf. And in all honesty in today's world they may not be taught about it.
Howard Green
WM LT35HDG25(2015) , 2011 4WD F150 Ford Lariat PU, Kawasaki 650 ATV, Stihl 440 Chainsaw, homemade logging arch (w/custom built rear log dolly), JD 750 w/4' wide Bushhog brand FEL

Dad always said "You can shear a sheep a bunch of times but you can only skin him once

POSTON WIDEHEAD

And like the (old saying) here on the FF......Some days you don't make anything.  :)
The older I get I wish my body could Re-Gen.

irvi00

I charge $100 per hour. Logs brought to me. That's from the second I touch the logs to when I load the lumber. Also includes my time with the metal detector.

paul case

I am at $.35 bdft and I say what a board foot is or $75 hour and I pick which.

PC
life is too short to be too serious. (some idiot)
2013 LT40SHE25 and Riehl edger,  WM 94 LT40 hd E15. Cut my sawing ''teeth'' on an EZ Boardwalk
sawing oak.hickory,ERC,walnut and almost anything else that shows up.
Don't get phylosophical with me. you will loose me for sure.
pc

Carson-saws

irvi00...I totally agree.  Per hour has always worked best for me. If your production rate is good and steady than both parties are happy in the end, no matter how thick or long. I know the hourly rate covers the cost, makes a decent profit and have yet to have a person complain.
Let the Forest be salvation long before it needs to be

petefrom bearswamp

Kubota 8540 tractor, FEL bucket and forks, Farmi winch
Kubota 900 RTV
Polaris 570 Sportsman ATV
3 Huskies 1 gas Echo 1 cordless Echo vintage Homelite super xl12
57 acres of woodland

woodweasel

 I charge $70 hr. Starting when I arrive until I get loaded back up. Plus $1.75 a mile one way.

woodman58

My rate is $75 hr. plus $2 a mile trip plus $50 set up fee. Cut 2100 BF (4 big red oak) in 4 hours today. I was happy with $500 and customer was happy with the beautiful large slabs. Mostly 1 1/8th and a fee 1 1/2 inch thick.
i LOVE THE SMELL OF SAW DUST IN THE MORNING.
Timberking 2200

Carson-saws

woodman58 and woodweasel...exactly...if you figure your production against you fee your customer paid $0.23 per board foot.  you made $500.00 and produced 2100 b/f ... 500 divided by 2100 = $0.238 cents per b/f... that is what keeps customers coming back and word of mouth spread. Now take your $500 and divide that by 4..= $125.00 per hour.  So you actually made $451.17... per hour less $48.30 which is what the $0.23 x 2100 equates to. Your total per hour actual charge is 112.92 per hour less how ever you personally figure your operating cost.
Let the Forest be salvation long before it needs to be

woodweasel

Woodman 58 is that $2.00 a mile, one way? Or both ways?

GeneWengert-WoodDoc

In addition to the fees discussed...mileage, set-up, per hour, per BF varying with thickness...
Does anyone charge extra for scanning logs for metal?
Does anyone also charge extra for blades that hit metal? 
What about debarking logs that have stones in the bark or lots of mud?
Gene - Author of articles in Sawmill & Woodlot and books: Drying Hardwood Lumber; VA Tech Solar Kiln; Sawing Edging & Trimming Hardwood Lumber. And more

WV Sawmiller

Doc,

   I charge $25 every time I hit metal. I don't scan customer logs and never plan to as I want that to remain customer responsibility and liability and don't want to take it on myself. I sometimes charge mileage but not as much as I should. I have not debarked customer logs. I do not charge for set up - I list a charge to move the mill but rarely charge  it and should take it out as usually easier and more convenient for me to move the mill than log. We moved it by hand about 15' Saturday as fastest, easiest and safer than moving several big logs without proper equipment.
Howard Green
WM LT35HDG25(2015) , 2011 4WD F150 Ford Lariat PU, Kawasaki 650 ATV, Stihl 440 Chainsaw, homemade logging arch (w/custom built rear log dolly), JD 750 w/4' wide Bushhog brand FEL

Dad always said "You can shear a sheep a bunch of times but you can only skin him once

Carson-saws

GeneWengert-WoodDoc...I give the folks an option...I will scan all the logs, for $25.00 per every 4 logs, and at my discretion as to signal received pull that or those from the pile. Or not scan and should the blade be damage beyond reasonable quality of cut, the client buys the blade.
Let the Forest be salvation long before it needs to be

Tom the Sawyer

Doc,

I do charge for that kind of extra work, a "Site and/or Log Prep Fee".  If they are not ready to go when I get there and I have to drag logs to the loading area (or roll them), trim off limbs, buck to length, scrap off mud or gravel, set up a stacking area, etc..  Currently, $50 p/hr.

I don't mind checking out their stacking setup, checking for flatness, or showing them how to sticker.  If I can get them started on the right path, their lumber will turn out better, and they'll be happier with the whole process.
07 TK B-20, Custom log arch, 20' trailer w/log loading arch, F350 flatbed dually dump.  Piggy-back forklift.  LS tractor w/FEL, Bobcat S250 w/grapple, Stihl 025C 16", Husky 372XP 24/30" bars, Grizzly 20" planer, Nyle L200M DH kiln.
If you call and my wife says, "He's sawin logs", I ain't snoring.

drobertson

Quote from: millwright on August 09, 2017, 08:42:19 PM
When sawing by the BF, do you charge say 25 cents for 1" thick then 50 cents for 2" etc
As mentioned by many folks many times over again,,sawing fees seemed to based on region and market value. To answer the initial question, not getting more involved in any more of your process, I sawed for varying rates from .15 to .50/bdft. All discussed with the customer before the work began.  For me it basically averaged out to about what you are charging. The price was per bdft sawn, regardless of the thickness, size or weight.  And as someone mentioned,, it most often times does mean more lumber for the customer than they were expecting from a log(s). 
only have a few chain saws I'm not suppose to use, but will at times, one dog Dolly, pretty good dog, just not sure what for yet,  working on getting the gardening back in order, and kinda thinking on maybe a small bbq bizz,  thinking about it,

brad918

For those that cut grade lumber AND dimensonal lumber/board and batten. Do you typically have two different board foot prices? Im thinking with grade sawing there may be more turning and studying the log versus getting a cant and sawing straight through.  Hourly rate structure would compensate for this I'm sure but wondered if anyone charged different board foot pricing for the different cutting methods?
WM LT35HDG25 (2017)

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