Stanley plane rehabs

[Dave Shepard]

I found a Stanley No.3C in my garage a couple of years ago. I sharpened it the best I knew how, but there was so much I didn't know about keeping a plane in fine fettle then. I know a little more now, and have better equipment for the project, so I tried a quick rehab tonight. I took some pictures, and I'll give a tour. It wasn't a real finicky reworking, but enough to get it in good working order.


This is the beginning picture. It's got a lot of surface rust. It was somewhat functional, but wasn't ready for any fine work.



I started at the bottom and worked my way up. Remove the lever cap and cap iron/iron,  then the frog.



Since this is a small plane, I wanted to try lapping the sole and cheeks. The cheeks are in tough shape, but the sole is ok. I'd want a larger area to work on than the 4"x10" DMT stone, but it helped some. I may try some large sheets of PSA backed papers at some point for serious lapping.



Next, I worked on lapping the mating surfaces of the frog, both the frog to the sole, and the frog to iron areas. The iron needs to sit flat on the frog.





Now it's time to sharpen the iron. I always start by flattening the back. This can take a lot of time, even with a coarse diamond stone. You have to have all the pits and nicks out of the back before you can hone the cutting edge. This one was pitted, but salvagable. As you can see, initial work showed that the leading 1/16th was in need of work. I honed and polished all the way up to the 8000 grit water stone for a mirror finish.



I used a 220 grit diamond stone for initial shaping of the iron, and then progressed to a 600/1200 DMT and an 8000 water stone for final polishing and micro bevel. I used the Veritas MKII guide with the camber roller.



I also lapped the bottom of the cap iron where it meets the iron, and the bottom of the lever cap where it rests on the cap iron. Everything must be in firm contact to fully support the iron. I adjusted the cap iron (also known as chip breaker) close to the leading edge of the iron, and moved the frog up to keep the opening small. This helps to make a fine shaving, and a smooth cut.

This shot was a little dark, but it looks a lot better with all the dust off of it and it's cheeks lapped. It planed the 1"x3" block of Alford white pine and left a very fine finish. It could use some more lapping of the plane body, but it is in good enough shape to go in my timberframing tool box to clean up tenons.




I used 220, 600, and 1200 grit DMT diamond stones, and an 8000 grit waterstone to do the rehab. It took about an hour and a half to go from garage sale clunker to a very servicable tool. It's very rewarding to me to save an old tool. 8)


Dave

[Radar67]

I've been rehabing a couple of No 5s. One is complete and the other is real close. Although, I spent more time on them. I used a quarter inch sheet of glass and sandpaper to lap the surfaces and do my honing.

[Burlkraft]

Nice Job Dave !!   ;D  ;D  ;D

Planes are something you find in just about every body's shop or garage. Most rusty and hardly used  : : :

They will last forever with a little TLC  ;D  ;D

[WDH]

Wow Dave, that is some transformation.  I got one that I need to send you .

[Dave Shepard]

Thanks for the compliments!

WDH, do I have to send it back when I'm done? :D

My goal was to make the plane serviceable, not restore it, but I would like to be able to clean up some of the rust a little bit better. Sometimes the Japaning is in better shape than you might think, and a really rough plane can be made nice again. For some of the really bad clunkers, a complete strip and paint will be in order. My next big step is to get a better system for lapping the sole and cheeks.


Dave

[thedeeredude]

Nice work Dave! 8)  For lapping I use a granite surface plate and emery paper.  Read about it on the internet woodworking forums and it works pretty good. 

[oldsaw]

That's an addiction that I've put on hiatus.  Been good, not buying any for almost a year, and then just one, a #6 that was in pretty nice shape.  I was up to 70 some odd planes, but have trimmed it down to 50 something.  Still have some that need some work.  Had a buddy in the antique business that would put them aside for me. 

Need to come up with a display case for the oldies, and a real cabinet for the "users".  The #3 is one of my favorites.  I seem to go to a #220, 3, 4 1/2,        5 1/4,  or a 5 1/2 more than anything.  That's probably 90% of my usage right there.  Have a KK 5 1/2 that I need to work on next, and a #7 that needs some work.  Been thinking about it again.

Mark

[Dave Shepard]

I just pulled another derelict off the pile, don't have a working jack yet. Can anyone guess the model?



This one is in much tougher shape than the 3C, we'll just have to see what's left of it. Kind of like opening up a log, you don't know what's hiding in there. ;D I've added a 220 water stone, and a 16 oz. squirt bottle. The water bottle helps keep the excess flooding to a minimum.


Dave

[Dave Shepard]

I've got all the pieces derustified. Looks like the last owner knew a little about plane upkeep, it's been lapped and polished in all the right places. There is a "W. Chandler" egraved on one side, and a small skull and cross bones on the other cheek.  : :-\ I think they will both lap off, when I get that capability. I usually don't mind leaving previous owners marks, it only adds to their value, for me anyway. ;) Means someone cared about the tool. The plane body, while needing a good lapping, is in great shape, and the japaning is in fair enough shape that the plane won't look to bad in service. I was able to get the surface rust off the parts. The process I use doesn't remove it all though, and leaves varying amounts of patina, depending on the amount of initial rust. The next photo will give you another clue as to the identity of the plane. 




Dave

[Dodgy Loner]

Is that a #4 Stanley Bedrock ???  I'm jealous >:( ;D

[Dave Shepard]

Nope! It's a Stanley #5 Bedrock, or more accurately, a 605 Bedrock. That's why I cropped the toe off in the picture. ;) It's going to come out pretty well, I think. Not a restoration, but I just want them to work well. The iron is really taking a while to get in shape, but the rest is good to go. The knob and tote are in good shape, but need refinishing. Anyone have any suggestions for refinishing? Thanks.


Dave

[Radar67]

Dave, I've been scraping and sanding mine down to natural wood and finishing with tung oil. I've got one No. 5 done and am working on the second. I'll see if I can get some pictures soon.

[WDH]

Y'all plane make me jealous .

[Dave Shepard]

Sanding and tung oil, I was wondering if that would work, I'll give it a try. This one is going to come out nice. I don't care about the dull patina, I'd rather have that than to strip it down to bare metal.

WDH, don't you have any planes to fettle?  :(

When I first started on this plane journey, I went around the farm, and my grandfathers and collected up all the old planes I could find. There must have been about a dozen altogether. They are in a pile on the floor at the moment. Before he passed away, my grandfather said he had a No.7 and a No.1 or 2, but I haven't been able to find them. :-\  I'm going to slowly go through them and make them right. I'll probably pass on some of them to friends that are getting into woodworking. One in particular wants to build a TF garage/barn this winter. He's got a Wood-Mizer and his godfather is a retired machinest/tool fixer upper guy, so he's got a fair start. ;D I've got a No.4 that should work just fine for him.


Dave


edit: I at went the tote and knob with some 000 steel wool and the edge of a bevel chisel for the paint dots. Wow! really reavealed the grain, and also put a smooth finish on the wood. I think there is some Tung oil around here somewhere. Should have this one done by tomorrow night. I don't think the wood is rosewood, cocobolo maybe? It's kind of a hot cocoa color. I'd try to describe the other characteristics, but WDH is watching and I don't want to get them wrong. :D I'll have to consult R. Bruce Hoadley and get back to you. Or take a pic. :D

[Phorester]

How did you get the surface rust off, particularily in the stippled (for want of a better term) areas?

[Dave Shepard]

I have a very simple process for removing rust. The problem is, nobody believes me when I tell them. You must try it before you question it's effetiveness. ;)

Take a hunk of 000 steel wool and soak it in water. It will strip the surface rust off and leave varying amounts of patina depending how badly the part is rusted. Dry it off well and coat with Rust Reaper to protect the metal. There is a chemical reaction going on, but I'd have to get my friend Verne to explain it to you. I haven't tried it with coarser wool, or sandpaper, so I don't know if it would take off heavier deposits of rust or not. I had a bunck of chisels and slicks get bad surface rust in the garage this winter. It restored them to their previous patina. You could certainly grind or sand the rust off, but then you are down to bare metal again.


Dave

[thedeeredude]

Bedrocks are neat!  Thats an earlier type too with the rounded and not square sides.  Nice work!  Where are the .001 shavings? ;D

[Radar67]

Here are some of my plane pictures Dave...

This is a cheap Stanley I bought last year just to bevel luan plywood and such. I think it cost arount $12. I did a quick lap on the bottom and sides and sharpened up the iron.


This is a piece of pine 2x4.


This my current project, a No 5 Stanley. I scraped and sanded to 150 grit so far on the tote. I also started lapping, but still have a ways to go. I cleaned this one by using electrolysis. You will notice what little Japaning was left is no longer there.






This was my first No 5 to repair. The iron has a lot of pitting on it and really needs to be replaced, but I sharpened it up anyway. I lapped this one on a 1/4 inch sheet of glass with sandpaper. I only took this one to 220 grit since it will be a worker. The handles were sanded to 220 and tung oiled. I think I ended up hand rubbing 8 coats on them. (0000 steel wool between coats). I used the same pine 2x4 to test it out on. Even with the rough pitted iron, it still rolls the wood off.

[Dave Shepard]

That No.5 really looks good, was it in really bad shape when you started? My totes are the same wood as the set in your picture. Is it rosewood? I've been in here all day working on various planes, framing chisels, and slicks. I've also been taking pictures.

Could you start a thread on how you did the electrolosis? I've been wanting to try it on some of the really badly rusted planes. Thanks.

I've been oiling and buffing the totes. I've never used tung oil before. Do you buff after the final coat? I've been using 0000 wool.


Dave

[Radar67]

You can buff after the final coat, but you get a satin looking finish. I did not buff on my last coat. The plane resembled the 3C you have pictured. I've got roughly 10 - 15 hours in it.

I believe the totes to be rosewood. The sanding dust is red and they have a smell very similar to the rosewood pen blanks I have. The  totes on the finished No 5 are beech.

As for electrolysis, it is pretty easy. You need a 12 volt battery, a battery charger that puts out around 6 amps, some baking soda or laundry soda, a couple pieces of 12 ga copper wire, and a piece of sacrificial metal. I believe Dan Shade has a post on here on how it is done. I can't find his post.

Mix a cup or a little more baking soda in a gallon of water. Use a plastic bucket big enough to hold your parts. Connect one wire to your part and the other wire to your sacrificial metal (I use a 1/4 by 4x4 inch piece of cold roll). Place the metal into the bath and fix it along an edge. Suspend your part in the bath (DO NOT let the two pieces touch) Connect the sacrificial metal to the hot side of the battery and the part to the negative side. Connect the charger and turn it on. Run it on the 6 amp or there abouts setting. You should see bubbles in the bath. You can leave the part in as long as you want, it will not be damaged, only the rust, paint, oil, or what ever removed. The dirtier it is the longer you leave it.

You can do a bunch of parts at once, as long as they all connect to each other and don't touch the hot side metal. You may have to add more soda. You can play with it and see the results. After you are finished, save the solution. You can add more water if needed and strain the dirt out when needed.

Oh, a good steel brushing is needed after you take it out and a good oiling. If you let it set too long after it comes out, it will flash rust (almost instantly).

NOTE: This process is producing hydrogen, so you need to do it in a well vented area, free from sparks and such.

[Dave Shepard]

Thanks, that sounds simple enough. I've seen a few accounts of it on the internet, but never a step by step.

I have finished the No. 605, with the exception of a few more coats of Tung oil. It came out quite nice. Again, it isn't really polished up, but it looks like it just came out of a 100 year old cabinet makers toolbox. Probably have four hours into this one. And for thedeeredude:



The picture is a little blurry, but one might argue that is a .00095" shaving. : :D


The tote on the 3C was split in half, quite common on the planes I see. I glued it, and put a coat of Tung on it. First pic is half stripped and buffed with 000 steel wool. I used the 1/4" chisel as a scraper. The square ground edge and narrow profile allowed me to follow the curves of the tote. Second picture shows the tote back on the plane. You can barely see the crack. Refinishing the wood really completes the job. 8)






Next up: a Stanley No.6 and a Sargeant VBM 24" jointer. Both are in very good shape, so it'll be mostly a sharpen and tune job. I've also got a Sargeant "No.", that is in good shape to work over.


Dave

[thedeeredude]

Dave,
  Do you hand plane your boards?  If ya do could ya give a tutorial, I'd like to see how its done.  
                                                                                     Aaron

Just as I was writing this I saw your new post.  Nice shaving ;)  I wish mine would do that.

[Dan_Shade]

Dave, was it one of these?  I've never tried electrolysis

https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php/topic,15387.0.html

or

https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php/topic,6915.0.html

[Radar67]

The second link is the one I remembered seeing. I thought it was Dan, sorry. It was Larry.

[Dave Shepard]

I've played around hand planing a few things, but I still have a workbench shortage. I have a few boards screwed to the top, and I plane against them. The problem is the bench top isn't screwed to anything. : I'll see if I can make up a tutorial for planing boards, or at least as much as I know about it.

That shaving was off of a red oak part for my boring machine. Red oak doesn't make a nice solid shaving. I spun it up agianst the spring, and got one line under .001". Might be able to do better with a board that's clamped down and the tote back on the plane. (the tung oil was still wet.)


Dave

[Dan_Shade]

i'm getting old and senile, I thought Dave made that post, Stew!

[Engineer]

I've done a few tools with electrolysis, but no planes yet.   It works very well and there are some interesting tricks over and above what you've learned here and on other sites.   One of the things that all of the different electrolysis sites tell you to use is Arm and Hammer Washing Soda.  It is just a weak solution of sodium carbonate.  Now, you can even use baking soda (sodium bicarbonate) but it is just a much weaker chemical solution.  I have been working on a large-scale restoration of a 125-year-old cast iron fountain, that came from a schoolyard, and we have been using HTH pool chemicals for the electrolyte.  There is something called pH Plus that is 98% sodium carbonate, and works extremely well.   We are soaking 400+ pound sections of this fountain in a giant pool made of plywood and sheet plastic, and we use 500 galllons of water and one container of this HTH stuff.  I guess you  could use about a couple tablespoons worth for every gallon of water for a small project.

Another trick is that we use (for the big stuff) sheets of concrete reinforcing mesh suspended above and below the piece.  Anything will work, but the more you can "surround" the piece you are trying to get the rust off of, the better it works.  We are hard-wiring the mesh to a 12-amp charger, and in three days this century-old piece of cast iron is as rust free as the day it was made.  The mesh eventually just gets eaten up.  DON'T use stainless steel or anything else except raw steel or iron for your sacrificial piece.  What I've done for smaller stuff is line the perimeter of a Rubbermaid bin or tote with mesh, or even chicken wire, and put the piece to be cleaned in the middle.  Be patient, leave it for a day or two, more if it's really bad.  When you take it out of the bath, use a Scotch-Brite pad to clean it up and then immediately dry it and oil it lightly, just a thin coat because something fresh out of an electrolysis bath will "flash rust" instantly.   Wire brushes and sandpaper are not necessary and will damage the patina.

For refinishing planes, I just use a high-quality oil-based enamel.  There are places online that you can buy original black japanning, but the process is very meticulous and labor intensive, and you need to bake the pieces, and I don't feel that it's worth it.  In another hundred years when the next person has to restore my planes again, nobody will ever know or care.  I also like to use a different color than black, I like dark green, burgundy, blues, etc.  Black is boring.

Rosewood handles are most common.  Thay can range very highly in color, from almost white to a deep chocolate brown.  I'll bet most plane handles that are original are rosewood.  Cocobolo is not as common but has been used, and the Stanley #40 and some other obscure models used beech handles.  It's best to save as much patina as you can, I usually just get it clean and try to get any paint splatters off.  I have a couple planes that have no handles and I will probably make them out of something interesting, I have some goncalo alves and some large chunks of curly ash and apple in the shop and they proably will yield an interesting plane handle or two. 

Any of you guys that want to really get into this, there is an old tools mailing list that I have been on for close to a decade now, and there are tons of resources (and some really cool auctions) where you can get into it as deep as your wallet and interest will allow.

[Dave Shepard]

Thanks for the extra details on electrolosis Engineer. I definately have a few that will need all the help they can get if they are to be made workable.

I have a friend who makes granite lapping plates, he hass one that is about 8"x20" for me. Will see how that works out. They are actually originally made for a friend of his that makes a proprietary line of sharpening products, and lapping them on the plates is the only way to true them back up.

Here is the 605 Bedrock ready to go in service. I can see a few details that need to be dealt with, like cleaning up the forward tote screw. : I took a few shavings off of the pine block it's sitting on. Doesn't take a full width cut, as the blade has a good curve to it. Don't know if it should have been ground square or not. I was able to take a .0005" shaving, which is almost transparent. I put two coats of tung oil on the tote, and buffed with a cloth after rubbing with 0000 steel wool.



I have two No.4s I want to work on next. A later one that I'm giving to a friend, and one that may be a very early plane. It doesn't appear to have many markings, but does have a Stanley thumbwheel, which should be left handed. Will have to investigate. I also have this 1887-1888 No.10 that I scrounged  :D ;) ;D out of an antique shop for $50.


If anyone else has any planes they'd like to show and tell, feel free, doesn't have to be Stanley either.

Dave

[Dave Shepard]

The old No.4 appears to be a Type 4. 1874-1884. Stanley bench plane dating page


Dave

[Dodgy Loner]

The #605 looks great!  I guess the camber of the iron depends on what you're going to use it for.  I use my #5 for straightening short boards.  It's less tiresome to use than a jointer.  Then again, it ain't a bedrock - it's just an old craftsman, so it wouldn't do a good job of smoothing anyway.  I have a pretty decent camber ground into it.  For my #4 Stanley smoother, I only relieve the corners so I can take almost a full-width shaving.  The smoother is a bailey-pattern sweetheart and works so well I haven't coughed up the dough for a more expensive plane yet.

[thedeeredude]

ok, here are some non stanleys.

This is a millers falls no. 8, equivalent to a stanley no. 3  $8 at the green dragon farm market.




This is a sargent 410 c, equivalent to a stanley no. 4-1/2 corrugated.  From an antique tool dealer.




This is a full size wagon I made over the weekend, I was bored.



Ha, just kidding, it's an antique gruber.  The antique gruber wagon works is about a half hour from me.  Awesome museum with lots of antique tools.  It is described as the door being shut after work one day and never opened again. 

[Engineer]

I don't have pictures of any of mine, I bought a bunch and had a bunch from my grand-dad that are all in storage, waiting for me to do some kind of restoration.  I have found that there are a few brands that were either made by Stanley for others or were based on Stanley designs.  I have some Keen Kutters which are the "K" series (not the 'KK' series) that are Stanley Bedrocks, I have a couple older Craftsman planes, #4 and #6 equivalent to Stanleys that I swear came out of the same mold, and a Sargent 'VBM' (another Bedrock equivalent) also a Winchester #4, and I have a Stanley S4 and S5 which were stamped steel rather than cast iron.  They are tough to restore and have look good.

[thedeeredude]

Pictures engineer   You know how impatient old tool addicts are :D

[Handy Andy]

  Bought an old #5 off ebay, and cleaned it up and lapped etc, planes pretty well, but the rust seems to come out of the pores.  Spose it needs that electralysis done to it, was wondering if maybe that rust reaper would kill the rust back in the pores?  Jim

[Engineer]

The electrolysis will get rid of any rust on a piece, no matter what size the pores of the metal, it will also expose any hairline cracks or other faults that paint or japanning might cover.  What is very important is that after you get the piece out of the zap tank and clean it off, you need to dry it and either paint it or oil it immediately.  I usually will clean something off and then immediately put it in a preheated oven at about 200 degrees to get rid of all the water.  Any flash rust the forms can be wiped off with an oiled rag, or if you paint the item, I have found that a product called "Rust Reformer" sold by Rustoleum works very well.  It goes on like a thin flat black paint and dries almost instantly.  I have tested its' "rust-proof-ness" by spraying parts of my mill - after over a year of exposure with nothing but the Rust Reformer on them, there is still no sign of rust.  You could paint a whole plane with the stuff and then lap the sole afterwards, especially if it's a not-too-valuable plane.  Like I said earlier, gloss oil enamel is a good coating for a user plane, and it looks good too.  The Valspar stuff from Tractor Supply is good.   I bought a can of John Deere green and I think I'll paint all my cleaned planes with it.   ;D

[Dave Shepard]

That 3C in the first thread has been my go to plane for finishing scarf joints and other repair parts in timbers for the last year. I got the hankering for a larger plane and I remembered the 605. It was in the middle of an abandoned sole lapping that was taking forever, so I had to clean it up a little and get the rust off of it. I put it in service last week, and I am really impressed with the plane. It cuts so smoothly and effortlessly. The iron is heavily cambered, as I mentioned a couple of years ago. : I have another iron that I am working on that I will take just a little off the corners. The current iron is almost like a scrub plane. The sole is good enough for the timber work I am doing, but I want to finish lapping the sole and cheeks. Most of the scratching from the name on the side is gone. I don't mind owners marks in the wood, but it doesn't look too good on the cheeks. I've got a No.6 that I want to lap really square so I can set up a shooting board to use with it. I have a regular No.5 somewhere, I'd like to tune that up and compare it to the Bedrock and see how much difference there is.

[dovetails]

Just wondered if I am the only one taught to alway lay a plane on it's side when setting it down? I see all the photos of them setting upright,and grindge,picturing my dad saying "what did I teach you boy!"  To this day,even the rusty plane out in the shop lies on it's side on the shelf,can't remember whan the last time I used it was.

[beenthere]

When the plane is being used and the blade is in cutting position, I learned to lay it on its side. But when not being used, the blade was 'stored' and not exposed for cutting - then store it upright.
Made sense to me.

[clww]

Great thread here. I just found it today while I was surfing. I've collected Stanley planes for the past 15 years and have about 75 of them, so far.

[Dave Shepard]

If I put down a sharp plane, it is parked on a little board under the toe, or if away from the bench, it's on it's side. I've got a special spot for the planes, I'll have to get a clearer pic tomorrow.

[SwampDonkey]

I have a special spot for my one Stanley plane to. In my new tool cabinet, where it slides into a shoe so it can't move. The shoe fits into the round knob and goes all the way to the blade. it looks like your first one Dave. But not the rust and dirt. Shame the abuse that plane suffered. What takes that rust off a might quick is a felt wheel and honing compound. You'll see your reflection. ;D



It is a little dusty, but no rust. ;D I have had this plane 20 years and I think I only used it to plane down a door edge in the old house, where it would catch on the casing. Earthquakes have a tendency to shift door casings. ;) :D

[Dave Shepard]

I really like this Bedrock. As you can see, the cheeks need more lapping, but they are good enough for what I do. Only reason I'd probably finish them is if I was to use it as a shooting plane. For the record, my planes go on a little block of wood, or on their side normally. I will, however, put them on clean wood for a photo op. :D

605 Bedrock on the job: