Anyone use this Amana Flooring T&G router bit?

terrifictimbersllc · January 07, 2011, 09:16:52 PM

Wondering if anyone can tell me what the bearings do on this Amana tongue and groove router bit set. I can't see how the guide bearing works to enable cutting of the profile along machined stock, without using a fence. Especially the one that cuts the tongue. Maybe the picture is a mistake and the bearing is larger? I'm going to call them Monday but FF is at work 24/7. Here's the link if the picture isn't big enough:
http://www.amanatool.com/bits-fv/flooring_routerbit_set-55456.html

Just Me · January 08, 2011, 07:36:50 AM

It is not a mistake. If you look the bearing lines up with the tip of the tongue, the rest of the stock is being removed. Amana's are pricey, but they are good bits.

Larry

terrifictimbersllc · January 08, 2011, 10:05:18 AM

Quote from: Just Me on January 08, 2011, 07:36:50 AM
It is not a mistake. If you look the bearing lines up with the tip of the tongue, the rest of the stock is being removed. Amana's are pricey, but they are good bits.

Larry

So what is this bearing riding on when the bit is cutting the tongue?

Is it used with an L-shaped template, under which the stock is placed and pressed against, so the bearing rides on the edge of the template?

Just Me · January 08, 2011, 11:34:03 AM

Ok, I see your point. I make mine with a shaper, so no bearing, didn't click this morning. Ya, not sure why they have a bearing there and not at the end of the tongue. I just pulled out a Whiteside T&G set I bought for curved work and that is where the bearing is.

My bad. To be fair though, I quit smoking yesterday and my brain is still back there....

D Hagens · January 08, 2011, 01:34:21 PM

My router table has an adjustable guide on it that presses down on the stock and adjusts out to run against the roller bearing. It's mainly used to keep thin pieces flat against the table.
It's not all that useful in most cases because not every piece of wood is the exact same thickness.

terrifictimbersllc · January 09, 2011, 07:19:32 AM

Quote from: Just Me on January 08, 2011, 11:34:03 AM
Ok, I see your point. I make mine with a shaper, so no bearing, didn't click this morning. Ya, not sure why they have a bearing there and not at the end of the tongue. I just pulled out a Whiteside T&G set I bought for curved work and that is where the bearing is.

My bad. To be fair though, I quit smoking yesterday and my brain is still back there....

Curious what shaper cutter you use for flooring and where do you get your uniform width-off the table saw first, or does the shaper cut it? if you have a picture or link to the bit i'd like to see.....maybe i buy one too? :

:

1938farmall · January 09, 2011, 09:47:42 AM

TT - if you click "router bits" on the amana page you will see 2 bits standing up in the left corner that have the bearings located for free-hand router use. they will only make a square profile (or, maybe there is a slight taper), but it is not the fancy rounded corner style you were showing us. happy routing! al

tyb525 · January 09, 2011, 10:16:45 AM

I would be careful using them free hand, I recently got a combo T&G bit with a bearing, and after a few toungue cuts it ripped the piece out of my hands and flung it across the room. I wasn't using a starter pin though, that was probably the reason. (not climb cutting, either)

Now I just use a fence.

Just Me · January 09, 2011, 03:11:44 PM

Quote from: terrifictimbersllc on January 09, 2011, 07:19:32 AM
Quote from: Just Me on January 08, 2011, 11:34:03 AM
Ok, I see your point. I make mine with a shaper, so no bearing, didn't click this morning. Ya, not sure why they have a bearing there and not at the end of the tongue. I just pulled out a Whiteside T&G set I bought for curved work and that is where the bearing is.

My bad. To be fair though, I quit smoking yesterday and my brain is still back there....
Curious what shaper cutter you use for flooring and where do you get your uniform width-off the table saw first, or does the shaper cut it? if you have a picture or link to the bit i'd like to see.....maybe i buy one too? : : :

I have stacks of straight cutters and what I usually do is use cutters of different outside diameters, larger diameters top and bottom with an appropriate ht. smaller diameter in the middle, shimmed to get the tongue I want. When I do the matching side I just use a larger center with smaller cutters top and bottom.

I also have a Freud adjustable width T&G cutter that cuts from 1" to3/8" thick T&G. Not sure if it would be able to be used for flooring backwards, many times the bottom side is cut a hair shorter on factory sets, but it is a very nice little set. I use it for small runs when I want a specific width in cabinet backs so that all the pieces are the same size. That is something you may want to check out as this set is very versatile. Even if the face side was a bit long you could fix that in a heart beat with a sharp plane if it was not production work. Just turn it over and use the back side. Freuds catalog gives exact dimensions for all their cutters.

I buy cutters from Ballew Saw and tool and Nordic Tool in California. Another place to keep an eye out for deals on shaper cutters is Oella Saw and Tool on the east coast. They buy up old commercial tooling and sharpen and resell it. Did I mention cheap! They make all of my custom corrigated back knives as well. Do a very nice job.

On running to width, I actually use my planer to size with a roller jig I invented to hold them square. I have a fairly large planer with about 4.5 feet of bed and it acts a bit like a jointer at the same time. I tried sizing with the shaper at the same time once and it was a near disaster. From what I learned never have a fence in front of the spindle so the piece is between it and the cutter! Even with a power feed in place it sent a piece flying right through the wall in my pole barn.I tend to learn things the hard way, self taught with the missing finger to prove it.....

SPIKER · January 09, 2011, 03:26:03 PM

Just thought I would post this as I saw it today. Menards has T&G pine 6"? I think by ? was 14BF per box buy one get one for 11 some bucks per box. Thought it was pretty good price.

hope it might help

terrifictimbersllc · January 09, 2011, 05:22:29 PM

Just Me,
see if I understand, you have your T&G shaper setups slightly sticking out of the fence, and you run uniform width stock against the fence to cut each profile. Your shaper setups don't have any bearings that the stock is riding against. (??)

Just Me · January 09, 2011, 08:07:01 PM

Quote from: terrifictimbersllc on January 09, 2011, 05:22:29 PM
Just Me,
see if I understand, you have your T&G shaper setups slightly sticking out of the fence, and you run uniform width stock against the fence to cut each profile. Your shaper setups don't have any bearings that the stock is riding against. (??)

Correct. I don't have a production shop, just custom stuff so my runs are never very long. I thought about buying a molding machine, but that is not what I want to do for a living.

If I have a bearing that works in a setup I will use it but don't really worry about it with power feed. If it is round work, or any work fed by hand I prefer a bearing to keep it from diving.

If you have a shaper you could just invest in some straight cutters which are inexpensive with a difference of 3/8" or so in outside diameter and you will have those cutters for all kinds of other projects, and not have any more money in them. Get some shims while you are at it, and those too will always be handy.

Wish I was smart enough to post pics, I'd draw you a sketch of how I stack them.

If you want PM me a number and I will give you a call....

Larry

terrifictimbersllc · January 09, 2011, 09:20:25 PM

Got it, right now I just want to make about 150 sq ft of 2-1/4 to 3-3/4" wide T&G oak flooring and I like the profile of the router bit above. I think it is meant to be used with a uniform width template somehow fixed to the top of the board (thus the bearing riding on the template), or it could be used with a router table fence with stock that is already sized in width (like your shaper setup). I'll call them tomorrow and take it from there. I don't have a shaper (yet) but it would be nice. Appreciate your story of the stock between the fence and the bit. I had a creepy feeling just thinking about that option, even with a router table, even though I've never tried it. That situation is one of the reasons for left-tilt table saws. Once the stock starts vibrating a little, which it surely would, it's all over except picking up the pieces.

terrifictimbersllc · January 10, 2011, 05:12:31 PM

Got the answer. The bit set is mostly intended to be used with a fence, in the router table. The bearings are there in case someone wants to make a jig in which case the bearing could ride on the jig.

ps. ordered it this morning from Dynamite Tool Co, $79.95 plus about $5 USPS shipping. First time order from this outfit.

laffs · January 28, 2011, 09:20:38 PM

:P

Just Me · January 31, 2011, 03:21:06 PM

TT

Saw your name in the finewoodworking reference guide. Just thought I'd let you know that someone saw it. ;)

terrifictimbersllc · January 31, 2011, 09:00:55 PM

That's great! thanks. I've had some calls from that listing. Peter is there too (PNyberg). Just reminded me that I need to update that I'm now registered for business in NY.

ely · February 01, 2011, 10:34:51 AM

looks like you guys hashed out your question, so at the risk of hijacking, i will ask...i am wanting to make alot of wall covering . in the past i have been doing this with a dado blade on a table saw. i just make it half lap and put it up mostly face nailed with a brad nailer.
i am wanting to know if it would be easier ,faster, more productive... to buy a shaper and tooling to make this with. it could be half lap , t&g either one.

im not buying a shaper just for this wall covering, i will be making kitchen cabinets with raised panels in them. so really its just more tooling.

terrifictimbersllc · February 03, 2011, 05:55:30 PM

The idea of having the saw free to size boards after jointing them, then going over to the shaper is attractive. You wouldn't have to re-configure the saw.

I don't have a shaper, but I do have a router table in my table saw extension. Trying to imagine cutting shiplap on a shaper seems like a toss up vs. the table saw & dado head. I guess the tooling is so basic and versatile that if you're going to get a shaper anyway you might as well try it out.

Just Me · February 04, 2011, 07:17:45 AM

For the price of a router table setup you can buy a good used shaper with a 3/4" spindle, and you will wonder why you ever messed with a router table. Cutter diameter is the biggy. Your angle of exit from the cut is so much less severe with the larger outside diameters of the shaper cutters that you will have much less blowout. Figure on picking up a power feed at the same time, its safer and does a better job you can do hand feeding, not to mention a lot less work.

I have twenty eight routers, and no router table.

ely · February 04, 2011, 09:29:00 AM

i have several routers and tables and have made raised panels with them before... thats why i am looking at getting the shaper, it would kill us to do the kitchen with the routers.

ljmathias · February 04, 2011, 05:39:21 PM

Just me: you really have 28 routers? Wow, you really make me jealous! I only have a couple... but then, I also have a handful of old trucks and cars... which I can't use to make anything useful out of wood with.

Lj

terrifictimbersllc · February 04, 2011, 06:00:18 PM

Quote from: Just Me on February 04, 2011, 07:17:45 AM
For the price of a router table setup you can buy a good used shaper with a 3/4" spindle, and you will wonder why you ever messed with a router table. Cutter diameter is the biggy. Your angle of exit from the cut is so much less severe with the larger outside diameters of the shaper cutters that you will have much less blowout. Figure on picking up a power feed at the same time, its safer and does a better job you can do hand feeding, not to mention a lot less work.

I have twenty eight routers, and no router table.

If one has a table saw with extension (I have a Unisaw with 50" Biesemeyer) and a router, then a router table is a no-brainer, especially from the standpoint of space, and when starting out. I didn't buy a router table. It's perfect for the quick small bit things. So far I have 3 PC 690 routers and a bunch of Lexan bases . I can swap these in and out without losing settings like for the router bit setup which is the title of this thread. I'd have a shaper and may still get one but something has to go first, in my shop, to have room.

Just Me · February 04, 2011, 06:25:36 PM

Quote from: ljmathias on February 04, 2011, 05:39:21 PM
Just me: you really have 28 routers? Wow, you really make me jealous! I only have a couple... but then, I also have a handful of old trucks and cars... which I can't use to make anything useful out of wood with.

Lj

Ya, its a living.... I'm jealous because I only have one old truck.

I hate changing bits. ;)

I just went to your photo thingy to see if I could spy your old iron and I have something else to be jealous of. Grandsons. Very cool. I have three daughters, and one grandaughter. All these wood tools and no one to leave it all to.

I do have a son in law but he is out of luck.

ljmathias · February 05, 2011, 07:03:59 AM

Yeah, the grandkids are a fantastic blessing- as we say in the South, if I'd known they were so much fun I'd have had them first... ???

Anyway, what parts of MI are you in? We lived there 5 years while I was at UM... great place and loved the UP, especially canoeing the Rifle.

So, your routers are certainly worth more than my old trucks- anything that actually works trumps rusting steel and pine-sap encrusted windows...

Lj

Just Me · February 05, 2011, 07:59:35 AM

I live 30 miles south of the bridge, wish I was on the other side, but I like to eat. Not much in the way of construction up there, and not many people that can afford my woodwork. Kind of ironic, those are my kind of people up there but I ended up doing something that keeps me down here. Theres always the lottery.....

My youngest daughter just started at State this year. My oldest graduated from Purdue, and the middle one is too much like me and is just floating around.

I wouldn't worry about the routers, you have a sawmill! ;)

Half the reason I have so many is when Porter Cable was bought out I figured that Dewalt would screw them up so I bought up a lifetime supply of the ones I really like. I do a lot of curved work in Azek[plastic]that can't be done on the shaper easily in the small runs I end up doing so I use a lot of routers.

Some day I'll update my computer so I can post pictures.

Larry