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Log Loading Arch out of timbers.

Started by firefighter ontheside, July 18, 2018, 09:00:54 AM

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firefighter ontheside

Has anyone builtor seen one built out of timbers instead of steel.  I feel like I could mill some yellow pine 4x4's and put together a V shaped loader.  I would make it fairly tall(8feet) to avoid having to lower it down so far.  I would possibly even hang a chain hoist from it so I could raise or lower the log independent of the winch that's pulling on the loader.  I'm a woodworker/carpenter and not a metal worker, so I'm just thinking of something I can build and not have someone else weld it for me, plus I can cut timbers, but I'd have to buy steel.  Thanks for any input.
Woodmizer LT15
Kubota Grand L4200
Stihl 025, MS261 and MS362
2017 F350 Diesel 4WD
Kawasaki Mule 4010
1998 Dodge 3500 Flatbed

firefighter ontheside

I've got most of a plan worked out.  I bought bolts and just milled some yellow pine 5x5's so I'm gonna go out it together.  Hopefully pics later.
Woodmizer LT15
Kubota Grand L4200
Stihl 025, MS261 and MS362
2017 F350 Diesel 4WD
Kawasaki Mule 4010
1998 Dodge 3500 Flatbed

firefighter ontheside

I have more work to do, but I have the arch together and had it on the trailer.  I'm just gonna use load straps to hang the chain hoist.



Woodmizer LT15
Kubota Grand L4200
Stihl 025, MS261 and MS362
2017 F350 Diesel 4WD
Kawasaki Mule 4010
1998 Dodge 3500 Flatbed

Firewoodjoe

Why not. Back in the old days of cutting with cross cut and horses they used big wood cranes and yarder towers.

711ac


firefighter ontheside

This was proof of concept, but my little 1 ton winch didn't have the guts to do the job.  So, tomorrow I will go get a bigger winch, instead of going to get logs on the trailer.


Woodmizer LT15
Kubota Grand L4200
Stihl 025, MS261 and MS362
2017 F350 Diesel 4WD
Kawasaki Mule 4010
1998 Dodge 3500 Flatbed

Ljohnsaw

If you put a snatch block on the arch you would have doubled your winch power.  Might even need to do that with your new winch depending on what you spend.
John Sawicky

Just North-East of Sacramento...

SkyTrak 9038, Ford 545D FEL, Davis Little Monster backhoe, Case 16+4 Trencher, Home Built 42" capacity/36" cut Bandmill up to 54' long - using it all to build a timber frame cabin.

firefighter ontheside

I talked about a pulley, but if I do that I lose half of the length of my cable which is only about 30 feet on my little winch.  The cable wouldn't be long enough.  I'm planning to pick up a harbor freight 9000 winch tomorrow.
Woodmizer LT15
Kubota Grand L4200
Stihl 025, MS261 and MS362
2017 F350 Diesel 4WD
Kawasaki Mule 4010
1998 Dodge 3500 Flatbed

Ljohnsaw

IF the measurements work out, you extend your cable all the way and have a little (5-10'?) past the snatch block.  Then use more cable or chain to come back towards the winch.  You need the most lifting power at the beginning and the snatch block will give you double.  If the winch hook starts to catch when the arch is at the top, that's ok since you don't need much power at that point.  Make sense?  Also, the less wire rope on the winch spool, the better.  The winch rating will give you a table that says the winch is good for the rated amount for the first wrap layer.  Then it drops off considerably for each additional layer of wire rope.  My cheapo HF 1,500# winch dropped down to less than 800# when it has 3 layers.
John Sawicky

Just North-East of Sacramento...

SkyTrak 9038, Ford 545D FEL, Davis Little Monster backhoe, Case 16+4 Trencher, Home Built 42" capacity/36" cut Bandmill up to 54' long - using it all to build a timber frame cabin.

firefighter ontheside

Thanks John.  I'm pretty well familiar with mechanical advantage systems.  We have to know how to build all kinds with rope and pulleys and other hardware on the FEMAtask Force I'm on.  

I'm gonna go ahead and get the 9000 so I don't have to deal with more setup.  I'm trying to save time when I'm picking up logs on site.  I'd really like to be able to load a 20' log in one fell swoop instead of cutting it in sections.  At home I can use my tractor to move stuff around.
Woodmizer LT15
Kubota Grand L4200
Stihl 025, MS261 and MS362
2017 F350 Diesel 4WD
Kawasaki Mule 4010
1998 Dodge 3500 Flatbed

Ljohnsaw

OK, good.  Meant no disrespect to your knowledge.  I didn't know your background.  A 20' oak is going to be mighty heavy!!!
John Sawicky

Just North-East of Sacramento...

SkyTrak 9038, Ford 545D FEL, Davis Little Monster backhoe, Case 16+4 Trencher, Home Built 42" capacity/36" cut Bandmill up to 54' long - using it all to build a timber frame cabin.

firefighter ontheside

None taken John.  Thanks for your suggestions.
PS....I've been following your build.  Hope you're safe from fires.
Woodmizer LT15
Kubota Grand L4200
Stihl 025, MS261 and MS362
2017 F350 Diesel 4WD
Kawasaki Mule 4010
1998 Dodge 3500 Flatbed

firefighter ontheside

I decided to get the 5000 lb winch and not the 9000.  I'm glad I did, because I saved myself about $100 and it worked perfectly today.  I loaded a silver maple log that was about 13' long and 24" diameter.  Didn't even slow the winch down.  Here's a video of loading a smaller elm log.
https://youtu.be/Rkp9_STWaYg
Woodmizer LT15
Kubota Grand L4200
Stihl 025, MS261 and MS362
2017 F350 Diesel 4WD
Kawasaki Mule 4010
1998 Dodge 3500 Flatbed

Crusarius

are you just grabbing the log on the frame then using the winch to pull the frame?

Doesn't the frame slam to the bed like that?

mike_belben

Praise The Lord

Ljohnsaw

That went nice and quick.  What winch did you end up getting?  From HF?
John Sawicky

Just North-East of Sacramento...

SkyTrak 9038, Ford 545D FEL, Davis Little Monster backhoe, Case 16+4 Trencher, Home Built 42" capacity/36" cut Bandmill up to 54' long - using it all to build a timber frame cabin.

firefighter ontheside

Crusarius, yes that's what I'm doing.  On small logs that can happen.  I only pick up one end of any log so that the other end drags, but the small logs don't have enough friction to slow it down.  On those, I stop the A frame at vertical and then just drag the log the rest of the way with the winch.  
On large logs there is enough friction that the winch has to pull the frame down.  Definitely don't want the frame slamming down.  Might even make some kind of support that stops the frame at about 45 deg.

John, I got the 5000 lbs winch.  It was on sale for 179 I believe and with a coupon I paid about 145.
Woodmizer LT15
Kubota Grand L4200
Stihl 025, MS261 and MS362
2017 F350 Diesel 4WD
Kawasaki Mule 4010
1998 Dodge 3500 Flatbed

Crusarius

ok here is an idea that may be hard to explain. Put a set of legs off the back side of the frame. but instead of making them rigid to the frame connect them using something that acts like a hinge. then get a pair of gas charged shocks to connect to the frame and the end of the leg. Cheapest Monroe ones you can get. then as it cams over the leg will make contact with the trailer then start to compress the shock and slow the fall. The leg setup should look like a triangle when your done.

wammo. Fix to camming over and slamming the deck. Just make sure if you want to lay it down flat again you have some type of quick release. Or you need to figure the geometry out to make it lay flat.

and when you figure it out I want pics and measurements :) save me the time of engineering it. :)

After thought, you may need more than 1 shock but I would start with 1 per side.

Ljohnsaw

Quote from: firefighter ontheside on August 02, 2018, 11:20:30 AMMight even make some kind of support that stops the frame at about 45 deg. John, I got the 5000 lbs winch. It was on sale for 179 I believe and with a coupon I paid about 145.

Great price.  My old Propane log arch had an ancient winch on it.  Slow and kind of strong.  Might have to upgrade to this one.  Let us know how well it keeps performing, or not.  Does it have a free spool so its easy to let out?  Mine doesn't. :-\

I forget who, but they used a chain on both sides.  Leave enough slack to stop the arch at about 45 degrees both over the trailer and over the tail.  Maybe a little higher over the trailer.  He had the winch cable running free through a snatch block on the arch.  He would let out his line to retrieve the log (if he couldn't back up to it all the way) and chain/choke the log.  Then, retrieve and when the hook hit the snatch block, the arch would raise - never had to stop and re-hook between the retrieve and the lift.
John Sawicky

Just North-East of Sacramento...

SkyTrak 9038, Ford 545D FEL, Davis Little Monster backhoe, Case 16+4 Trencher, Home Built 42" capacity/36" cut Bandmill up to 54' long - using it all to build a timber frame cabin.

firefighter ontheside

Interesting idea Crusarius.  I'll see if that's a possibility.  I'm afraid the legs will land right on my fenders.  I'm not sure if that will be a good thing.  They are fairly strong, but I don't want to smash them.  

Johns idea with the chains could work too.  Could attach a spring and also cushion the landing if it falls.

The HF winch seems we'll made and does have free spool option that is nice for resetting everything.  After a while I could feel that cable was warm as I pulled it out telling me the winch was heating up.
Woodmizer LT15
Kubota Grand L4200
Stihl 025, MS261 and MS362
2017 F350 Diesel 4WD
Kawasaki Mule 4010
1998 Dodge 3500 Flatbed

Jack S

One thing about the harbor  freight winches that I checked out and I have the 3500 unit is they only have a 15% duty cycle at full load which translates to only 9 minutes of hard use per hour. Mine seems to work great but I do keep a check on the motor temperature. 

firefighter ontheside

Thanks Jack.  I read that too.  I think that'll be fine for me as I will usually only be picking up one or two logs at a time.
Woodmizer LT15
Kubota Grand L4200
Stihl 025, MS261 and MS362
2017 F350 Diesel 4WD
Kawasaki Mule 4010
1998 Dodge 3500 Flatbed

mike_belben

Keep the freewheel/disengage lever lubed.  Underneath it is a spring and detent ball.  If it rusts, no detent.  So when the winch jumps out of engage under load a chunk breaks off into the planetary.

Tractor trailer repair shops throw out 11" airbags that still work pretty often.  Not much that they wont cushion.
Praise The Lord

John Mc

Looks like the DanG Deadheader loglifter - except yours is made out of wood. Search on that term here and you'll find some pictures of them in use. One of them used check chains tied to the rear of the trailer to keep the arch from flopping all the way over. Quick, simple, cheap.
If the only tool you have is a hammer, you tend to see every problem as a nail.   - Abraham Maslow

Crusarius

yea. you definitely do not want to use the fenders. It may be ok the first couple, but eventually they will start to deform.

If I didn't have so many other projects going on I would be rigging something up just like I explained. I have had plenty of times I have used a hi lift and my 5x8 trailer picking up logs that were offered to me.

I still have 24' long trunk that is about 22" diameter of black walnut I need to go rescue from my buddies driveway. Thats going to be fun to load on the trailer. especially by hand.

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