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Building a house with a sawmill

Started by Jmiller160, August 16, 2017, 12:08:39 PM

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thecfarm

And I forgot to post,I tried to clean up each tree too. I cut the brush into short pieces and hauled out each top for firewood. That added alot of time too.
Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

Banjo picker

cfarm I leave a place for the rabbits to hide. ;)  It all melts into the ground in a couple of years around here anyway.  I do get out the good firewood but the tops stay.  Banjo
Never explain, your friends don't need it, and your enemies won't believe you any way.

Jmiller160

I've already got my trees cut back in the winter, I've been milling for about a month in what time I have available.. I'm building a 32x50 log house with 6x8 logs, Appalachian style.

rjwoelk

buuilt this 22x26 ft cabin all cut on a lt15


 
Lt15 palax wood processor,3020 JD 7120 CIH 36x72 hay shed for workshop coop tractor with a duetz for power plant

rjwoelk

after staining and more work done on it.


 
Lt15 palax wood processor,3020 JD 7120 CIH 36x72 hay shed for workshop coop tractor with a duetz for power plant

78NHTFY

Yup, lots of satisfaction in doing it yourself--kinda like raising kids: you forget most of the tough times & remember only the good.  I look in my woods and say to myself: this wood came from there--chainsawed, dragged, bandsawed, stickered, selected, chopsawed, circular sawed, radial arm sawed, some planed, built with, stained.....how many times did I handle each piece of wood? I forget but I think that's good :D.  Took me two years to build my barn, last 9 months to put on this kitchen addition to the house.  On the addition, every piece of wood that I could make I used: 6 x 12 x 20 sill beams; 2 x 6 wall studs; 2 x 10 floor joists; 2 x 12 rafters; all the exterior trim; 1/2 clapboards (not tapered).  Started project in Dec '16 so had to buy 5/8"  4 x 8 roofing and 1/2" sheathing.  Had a week on and off of help but basically did it solo.  Pics below are barn; addition; soon-to-be kitchen table.  All the best, Rob

  

  

  
If you have time, you win....

TKehl

Sounds like you have time on your side and several half size helpers available.  If you can swing the rest of the budget for the house (wiring etc.), I'd go for it. 

If you want some planning ideas try this site (no affiliation): 

http://countryplans.com/

Don't know your experience level, but they have house plans that a complete novice can build.  Plus a helpful forum with build threads etc.
In the long run, you make your own luck – good, bad, or indifferent. Loretta Lynn

MbfVA

Our designer tells me that by specifying #2 grade, and with PE approval of the sizing taking that into account, that we then effectively have no grade requirement and can use "ungraded" lumber so long as it is big enough.  That is in VA--is it true elsewhere where grading is required?

Yes, it would mean larger stuff, but wood is abundant for us.
www.ordinary.com (really)

ljmathias

I've built four houses and in the process of building a fifth, plus 5 barns or out buildings. I'm of two minds about using all self-cut lumber (and two minds is better than one, no?). First is price: once you have the tools (and it's not just the mill, it's the backhoe/tractor plus planar plus table saw plus ...) then you can win on price. Problem is, as others have said already, it's incredibly labor intensive and uses up huge amounts of time. If you have those in plenty, go for it.

Biggest problem for me is quality. In trying to save time and effort, I tend to use trees and the lumber I get that are marginal: bad idea as the boards warp and bend during drying and even in the framing. Had to hand trim a number of framing studs because of that. Frustration factor is also something to consider: do I throw this board out or try to make it work? Do I resaw all my studs because I underestimated shrinkage and half of them are 1/8 to 1/4" too wide?

For framing, I've come to the conclusion that time is more valuable than money. Also, last few houses have used trusses for roof and attic/upper story and this only makes sense when you buy them. Making my own holds zero attraction for me. So in the future, I'll just buy commercial framing studs pre-cut to length plus trusses for the top half.

Having said that, I LOVE the live edge siding we use. That's evolved from 1" to 3/4" plus I use fresh cut trees. Did one house with lightening and beetle kill: bad idea! Hate how it stained and went up with some punky areas in almost every board. Now the fresh cut boards air dried for a couple of weeks retain pale yellow color (no blue stain) so that the stain color chosen is what you actually get. That plus the fact that I can do lap siding by myself (not easily and with my shoulder right now, not at all, but can be done with careful planning). With two people it goes up fast but ideal is three: one to cut and two to hang. I always use screws in building now, both for framing and for siding, facia and soffit hanging. Last longer, don't pull out, and if you make a mistake, zip the screws out and fix it, no big deal. Cost more? Yes, but I'm building for kids and grandkids to live in, so...

Anyway, my two cents worth...

LJ
LT40, Long tractor with FEL and backhoe, lots of TF tools, beautiful wife of 50 years plus 4 kids, 5 grandsons AND TWO GRANDDAUGHTERS all healthy plus too many ideas and plans and not enough time and energy

bandmiller2

As stated early on the big problem is local codes. You may have to buy load bearing stamped lumber for rafters and floor joists. Post and beam and log construction can be an option. Talk to your building inspector some are sports and will work with you if you won't hang them out to dry. Frank C.
A man armed with common sense is packing a big piece

Don P

Exactly, do find out from the building official before you start what he is going to require.

MBF, here is the wording in the VA code, and many other states this is straight from the ICC model code. Timberframe actually falls under the engineering clause as well, this is referring to dimensional lumber.
This clause is at the beginning of every framing chapter and calls out the structural lumber used in that part of the house as needing grading, so this was from the floor chapter, the roof chapter will call out rafters and ceiling joist as needing grading for instance. What I'm saying is they are waving this in your and the inspectors view multiple times. (I've had them sympathize heavily but point this out)
QuoteLoad-bearing dimension lumber for joists, beams and girders shall be identified by a grade mark of a lumber grading or inspection agency that has been approved by an accreditation body that complies with DOC PS 20. In lieu of a grade mark, a certificate of inspection issued by a lumber grading or inspection agency meeting the requirements of this section shall be accepted.
Enforcement is another matter, I can get entirely different answers from a building official in another county. Do consider insurance, ungraded you are building outside of state law, will they honor a claim? I don't know. In my county the BO will let an engineer grade. He's rightfully remarked that I'm using him as an insurer of last resort. I've joked back that I'm paying enough that no matter what it is, his lawyer will surely prove it is my fault  :D

Before you get too deep a visit with the building department to clear that up would be a good idea.

  ljmathias makes a good point, that desire to make use of a board full of personal labor takes more than most people have to reject it. I've watched grade change upon need in every way necessary, I've seen other people do it too.

MbfVA

 Law is the law, but like you say enforcement varies.   I guess I'm fortunate, the PE who told my designer about bypassing lumber grading and the chief inspector where we will be building are personal friends.

Really, has anyone on this forum had the experience of their licensed engineer, PE, being overruled by a building inspector?    Rare as snow in July in Florida I'll bet.   I get that the engineer who told me that a PE could without a doubt overrule, was wrong by the statute, but I'm talking about practice.

Oh, and by the way, in our county, the County Board of Supervisors appoints the head building inspector, and he reports to them.  They can overrule him if a citizen appeals to them.   I can't speak for statewide, but that's the case in Goochland County.    But again, unless there's a professional engineer pleading the case to them, I can't imagine they would overrule their inspector.  In my four years on the Board here, we never had it come up.   I did personally go to the inspector one time and tell him to stop being a jerk to a particular contractor.   He later got fired by a subsequent Board.

I do regret that we appointed him.   Our county administrator at the time, who also later got fired, picked him from an adjoining county and we rubberstamped his recommendation.  We did not do our homework or properly question the guy.

Kind of like what Congress is getting ready to do on that tax bill, that hasn't even been fully written yet.  Yes, fellow FF members, our Congress (Senate) is about to vote on a bill that's not even fully in writing yet.  If you're not appalled by that, what will it take to get you appalled?   As a CPA, I can tell you that some of the stuff that IS for certain in the bill already is as stupid as h--.  I'm still getting over the Medicare drug "coverage" donut hole incredibility. Rant mode off.

I would have to review what is called the Dillon rule before I could say for sure how firm the ground is that our county is on.  That rule has to do with the supremacy of state law over local law;  it is pretty much a nationwide thing,  but as with everything in the law, interpretations rule.
www.ordinary.com (really)

MbfVA

On the point of cost versus benefit, I don't plan to do my own 2 x 4's. Unless I suddenly become blessed with a lot more time than I have now.  Now if I were in the wilds of Alaska, and Home Depot or Lowe's was a long ways away, the mileage might vary.

I also can see that it would be a lot of fun to be able to say that every stick of lumber in a house came from one's land.

My main concern with this issue is the big timber framing timbers.   I recall Don saying something about a knot in a big beam that got overlooked. No matter what your designation is,  or how many tests you have passed, stupid or careless or both is still stupid....

Or, just accidental.  Or maybe I should say, accident-causing?   Our world is totally completely full of..."no guarantees".
www.ordinary.com (really)

starmac

Well I am in Alaska, but it is probably only 3 miles to a lowes or home depot. It is worth it to me to cut a 2x4 out to keep from going through a whole bundle of theirs, looking for a straight one, then only to bring it home and have it split from end to end while driving the first nail.

I know I am exaggerating, but they do handle a lot of lumber that I call junk.
Old LT40HD, old log truck, old MM forklift, and several huskies.

Southside

Personal experience is that I can not saw small dimensional lumber cheaper than I can buy it, and that is from pine growing on land I own.  Now start getting into 2 x 10, or 2 x 12 - 16' and yes I can save a bundle.  Perfect example is a pole barn kit we bought, 36' x 48'.  20' treated 6 x 6 posts, engineered steel trusses, 2 x 6 #2 spurlins, delivered to us from a facility in Florida and it was cheaper than I could produce it, and I can get treating done at a plant 25 miles from here. 

As the others said, flooring, trim, siding - all places to save big money and end up with quality beyond anything you can buy.  One thing to really be careful with when using your own lumber is the potential for insect issues.  Air drying will not kill everything that may be lurking in a stick of wood, and if said stick becomes a framing member behind a wall when the pregnant creepy crawlie wakes up, well you see the potential. 

If you could devise a cheap way to replicate heat treating to be sure you have killed off anything you can't see in the wood then you really reduce the potential for issues down the road.   

Not trying to discourage you at all, I have put up multiple buildings using rough sawn lumber that we bought and have produced ourselves, just want to give you as much information as possible so you can invest your time the best way possible. 
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starmac

Op has stated at least twice that he is cutting logs for a log house. They may have them, but I personally haven't seen any d logs at our local home depo, except for landscape timbers.

Another way to look at it though, lets say a guy is temporarily unemployed, or even employed, but it takes every nickel he makes to keep the kids clothed and fed.
Now same guy has timber, even already felled, he also has his own sawmill and wants to build a house.
Now lets say where he lives he needs no permits and there is no restrictions to keep him from using his own rough cut lumber.
He doesn't have to have a slab foundation, so can even cut his foundation.

Is he better off sitting back, looking at the weekly flyer on Sundays from the local lumber yard, with the mindset that it is not worth my time cutting framing lumber, or start a cut list of what he needs from the logs he has already cut instead of letting them rot?
Old LT40HD, old log truck, old MM forklift, and several huskies.

Ianab

QuoteMy main concern with this issue is the big timber framing timbers.   I recall Don saying something about a knot in a big beam that got overlooked. No matter what your designation is,  or how many tests you have passed, stupid or careless or both is still stupid....

In a "production" situation things like that can slip through because the "grading" guy has gone for coffee or something. Was doing computer work at a local company, and the Office Girl comes in complaining that she's making up an order for customer of X 4x4 fence posts, and some of them broke in 1/2 as she was stacking them. OK they got that under control, checked the stack, and sorted out the good ones. Now that's just fence posts, they aren't technically graded, but if you buy one, you don't expect it to fall in 2 if you drop it. So their internal "grading" had slipped and let useless posts through.

But running a small mill yourself you tend to watch things better. From the log going on to the mill (or even the tree it came from), the boards coming off, and the beam you end up with. You can read the log and see there is a freaking big knot on that face. So you decide how to best deal with it.

So if you have looked at the log, you are running the mill, you are checking the beam, and it's your house... What are the chances you are going to use a defective beam?

All these building code restrictions actually come about from the actions of "Professional" builders, that sometimes DO cut corners and buy the cheapest lumber they can. We have the same issues locally, and they bought in stricter building regulations about licensing builders, that made it almost impossible to build your own house. Of course that created a bit of fuss, the powers that be agreed that "Owner Builders" were NOT the main problem, and the law was amended to allow for Owner Builders and "Alternative Timber". A few more inspection hoops to jump through, but at least there is a way you can do it again.

So it's usually a matter of finding out what your local laws actually are. While you may be told " All structural timber must be grade stamped", and sometimes that's true, in many places there are some "Unless" clauses.

Like if an engineer approves the plan for #2 rough sawn, usually means bigger timber and/or more of it.
Or a 'Native Lumber" exception where you can use wood harvested from your own property to build with.
Or some other loophole...

But you may not be told about those exceptions up front, so finding out the actual law, then making friends with the local building inspector is the way to go.
Weekend warrior, Peterson JP test pilot, Dolmar 7900 and Stihl MS310 saws and  the usual collection of power tools :)

MbfVA

 I would say something similar to that, that achieving a comfort level on present & future is the average inspectors' hearts desire.  If you can help reach that comfort level with them, so that they trust you, a lot of things are possible, with no dire consequences.  At the end of the day, they want building to go on without drama, during inspections or down the road.
www.ordinary.com (really)

Magicman

I have sawn the complete cutting list for framing lumber for something around 20 homes.  (I lost count)

1.  The blueprint has to specify #2 and/or rough sawn lumber.
2.  The city, county, or whatever jurisdiction has to approve and issue the building permit if required.
3.  The lending institution has to approve it.
4.  The insurance company has to approve it.
5.  The builder/contractor has to know and approve it.

If you fail to meet any of the above requirements you could very possibly end up with building materials that you can not use or a partial building that must be dismantled.  I carefully go over these items with a potential framing lumber customer during our initial conversation.  Some never call back, but then there are those that do.
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

MbfVA

 That condenses the entire discussion pretty nicely in my humble opinion, thank you MM.  The keystone is full disclosure.  It's amazing how the truth will set you free.

BTW about how many of those jobs did you do on the customer site?
www.ordinary.com (really)

Magicman

All of them.  The framing lumber is usually stickered under a shed but still relatively close to the building site.  I sawed for two homes being built by the same contractor/carpenter at the same time.  He brought me a cut list for the next day every evening and picked up what I sawed that day.  Both homes were framed with green/fresh sawn lumber.
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

MbfVA

Green lumber for regular stick framing?  Don P is going to declare war.

I'm still hearing the sound effects in my mind from the machine gun he described.  Remind me to wear a bulletproof vest when he introduces me to his wife on a job site.

Anything to share on any problems that occurred with warping or shrinkage etc.?  You did both for a contractor, so it wasn't like he didn't know what he was getting into.

This forum never fails to astound me with what I learn, with the breadth of discussion.  Every single day.
www.ordinary.com (really)

Magicman

Yes, stick framing.  I could not believe it either but my job was to saw...not to opinionate.  I guess thankfully framing lumber at least has some time to air dry before it is completely closed in. 
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

Magicman

 

 
Here is a picture of some of the framing lumber that was sawn on the Goodwill Sawing Project
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

starmac

I would imagine that there have been literally thousands, if not hundreds of thousands of houses built right off the mill, stick frame or otherwise.
Old LT40HD, old log truck, old MM forklift, and several huskies.

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