Tire Store Airwrenches

[Magicman]

I started to rotate the tires on my Toyota Rav4 last week.  I finally had to get the 4-way to loosen the lugs.  Stretched threads.  I quickly saw that enough were ruined that I just ordered a whole set of new nuts.  They came today.

One wheel bolt wrung off.  A trip to the auto parts.  I also found that the tire store had replaced a couple of lug nuts.  Guess what?  Different size.  If I had been caught with a flat on the road, I would not have been able to change it with the vehicle's lug wrench.

The spec. says 83 ft.lbs. torque.  If my tire store can't torque them properly, another one can.  No more air wrenches tightening my lug nuts.

[isawlogs]

Had a wheel on my nephews truck cause us issues after 5 of the 6 studs boke off while on the road . Not too happy with the use of air wrenches by airheads at the shop .  >:(

[Warbird]

They are supposed to be using a special torque socket on those air wrenches when putting the tires back on.  I've seen a lot of them that don't and I simply don't go to them anymore.

[Larry]

About 3 years ago I needed new tires for my truck.  Popped into the local tire store where I had bought both tractor tires and auto tires.  I knew the owner and was always treated with courtesy.  They didn't have what I needed...made a smart ash remark about they could get them in a few days and don't worry about the cost.  Same place that broke my plastic hub cap and repaired it with Super Glue.  They told me they had broke it, but it wasn't there fault as it was surly a manufacture defect.

Anyways...I pulled into Walmart for a look-see and bought tires.  Amazed...one guy put the tires on and torqued, then another employee re-torqued them to insure the nuts were to the proper standard.  And no these were not air wrenches.  One employee told me they would be fired on the spot if they didn't follow proper procedure.  They had an unbeatable policy of tire rotation and flat repair that went with tire purchase.  Not that good anymore...but the independent guys were taught a lesson about customer service and I'm back with them...just not the one I first wrote about.

[WH_Conley]

Local tire shop tightened lug nuts on my wife's Jeep so tight I had to use a 24" breaker arm and jump on it to get them to break loose. I weigh 260 lbs. No sense in being that tight.

[Dave Shepard]

My local shop uses "torque-sticks", which are color-coded 6" extensions that limit the amount of torque you can apply. Different color, different max. torque. They seem to work well.

[Warbird]

Those are what I was talking about, Dave.  Didn't know the name of them.  Quite a few years ago, I looked into buying a set but they were ridiculously expensive.

WH, when they are tightened down like that, is causes the rotor/wheel to warp, which can lead to 'jerky' and uneven braking.  It actually damages the vehicle.

[pigman]

When I arrived at the pig roast I had a low tire because of a nail in the tire. Wildflower recomended a local tire store in Harrison named Haskels. They repaired the tire and ran the nuts back on with an air wrench lightly, but then used a torque wrench to tighten the lugs. 8)  That is the first time I have seen a tire store use a torque wrench and with these aluminum rims I think that should always be a requirement.

[pineywoods]

With alloy wheels, you best use a torque wrench for the final torque. When the alloy wheel heats up, it will expand faster than the steel lug bolt and may actually stretch the bolt, then when it all cools off, the lug nut will be loose. been there, done that...

[Brad_bb]

First, lug nuts should never be installed with an impact.  Why?  Cross threading and over-torquing, which causes stretching of the studs, and can damage the lug holes of the wheel.  Removing lug nuts with an impact is fine.  Also, I always apply a drop or two of oil on the threads of each stud before installing the lug nuts so that your torque reading is true.

Steel rims (especially on classic cars) were very susceptible to deformation from over-torquing.  When I restored the rims for my 55 Chevy, I didn't realize that one was deformed too bad to use.  My second trip, the nuts backed off and I snapped a couple studs and ended up stuck on the side of the road with a wheel that wobbled.  The deformed lug holes in the rim would not allow the nuts to tighten against the rim, but rather they contacted the hub/drum, leaving slight play in the wheel that was unnoticeable, but quickly grew as it was driven.

[tyb525]

At the tire store where I work part-time, it's myself and another guy doing the tires and oil changes. We have been told numerous times to just snug them with the impact. In fact I stop when the "impact" starts to kick in. We then check them all with a torque wrench.

However, half the time no one at the shop follows that rule and just rams them on with the impact, and also many times they don't use the "star" pattern when tightening them.

Our impacts can torque up to 650 ft-lbs, obviously if someone is trigger happen they can over torque real fast, and/or strip or break a stud. Not using the star pattern can lead to warping, just like too much torque. And then we wonder why we get so many people with tire/wheel vibrations.

We have torque sticks but no one bothers to use them. Of course since I am the youngest there noone listens to my suggestions. >:(

[Captain]

Torque sticks are rated for a single hammer impact wrench at 120psi.  Neither of which you will find at the typical auto repair facility.  They are better than just using a socket, but do not work properly when used on a double hammer impact at 150psi, which is more typical.

Hand torque is the BEST method as previously stated.

Captain

[easymoney]

i went to a locol tire store to have some tires mounted on my truck a couple of days ago.they was not really busy but the workere was working like the house was on fire.
maybe they did not like it that i brought my own tires in. they had a problem getting one of them to go over the wheel and started beating on the tire with a hammer and tire tool. they punched a hole on the sidewall of that tire. he just threw it down on the floor and said i am not going to charge you for mounting that one. if you get alother tire i will not charge you for mounting it. i will not be back there. and yes they have those super strong air wrenches and they dont have a clue as to the torque they are applying.

[tyb525]

easymoney whereabouts are you located? Sounds like my coworker, he is always running around like a chicken with his head cut off for no apparent reason.

[easymoney]

i am in a little town in middle tennessee called hohenwald.

[tyb525]

Ah, well then I guess our shop isn't the only one like that

[ErikC]

 We go to the little place here in town, and they use the air and hand tighten with a torque wrench to specs. I have had to fix a lot of flats and they were never too tight. None have backed off either. Several different guys around the place, but all seem to follow the procedure. You've got to watch for that kind of thing alright though.

[sandhills]

For the most part I do all my own tire repair and like isawlogs says it's usually the airhead not the air wrench, but have to admit I've done it a time or two to myself :(  Alloy wheels are a must to be torqued right, ruined a very expensive one by not checking, learned my lesson. tyb525, wish you were closer, garuntee I'd ask for your work!

[SwampDonkey]

Mine are always torqued and can be rechecked after 80 km for free. I believe that is a self regulated procedure by members of the Atlantic Tire Dealers Association.

[T Red]

I had the opposite problem on our cab over Isuzu.  Had some new tires installed a few months ago.  Last week two lug nuts were missing.  I went to a different store this time for two more tires.  Had the guy check all the lugs and found them just snug.  He had a 3/4" impact and tightened all of them.  After reading this I hope they are not too tight.  It does take a 41 mm socket so I'm not too worried.

[tyb525]

I know at first it seems counter-intuitive, but sometimes "snug" is all that is required. Now, for big trucks I know they can run above 200 ft-lbs, so it is harder to over tighten those. It seems to be instinctive to get them as tight as possible, however that can cause more damage than good. We torque all of our car wheels to 80 ft-lbs, after spraying a little wd-40 if they are rusty at all. We have never had a wheel come off because of that. On the light trucks, we have a chart we refer to and they range from 100 to 160 ft lbs.

I remember the 2nd day I worked there I was torquing the lugs on an Impala and broke one off  :-\, it was so stressed from previous over-tightening that it didn't get to 80 lbs before it broke. I felt pretty bad about that one, but I learned my lesson and now know what it feels like when a stud is about to break. :

[jamesamd]

If You know what it "feels like" before it brakes,its too late.

Alert the customer that the studs need replacing,because of what You intutively "felt".If need be have them sign a waiver,or advise Your supervisor,that it would be good business to replace the studs and not charge the customer but advise them of what You found and HOW it was remidied. Jim

[Magicman]

now know what it feels like when a stud is about to break. :  

Yup, when you are tightening or loosening something and get that "easy" feeling, your gut tells you what just happened.  I wrung one of mine off removing a lug nut.   :-\

[tyb525]

Yes, it is too late, and breakage or not it needs replaced. I'm always amazed at how messed up some of the studs are on some vehicles, mostly due to crossthreading/stretching.

A guy came in the other day with a small car with 4 studs per wheel, well he rotated his tires himself and while putting one of the lugs on he crossthreaded it. Of course, instead of stopping and backing it off, he just forces it on as far as it will go, and by that point the threads were gone. He then proceeded to drive 50 miles on 3 lugs on the driver's side front wheel :. We replaced that stud, and made sure to point out how to prevent that in the future. ;)

[Gary_C]

Well, it's not completely the fault of the guys with the wrenches. Ford has created it's share of mischief with their aluminum/mag wheels that corrode and stick on so hard that you have to carry either a six foot long pry bar or a maul to get one off on the road.

Of the seven wheels on my 2002 F-350 dualy, there were four mag wheels and I only have two left that are still on the truck. Two have gone bad and since they wanted almost $400 apiece for replacements, I bought two new steel wheels for $75 ea. One of them cracked around the valve stem and started leaking air and the other one was cracked around the bead area, probably from the Ford dealer beating that one off with a maul one day.

The day I found the leaking rim, I had taken the truck into a tire store to fix what I thought was a leaking tire and when they told me it was not fixable I told them to just swap it with a tire off the dual rears so I would temporarily not have to worry about it going flat. The mag wheel they put on the front was so corroded around the hub that it did not seat properly even though they torqued it according to specs. I drove about seventy five miles to a job and the wheel was flopping around and had broken off one wheel stud. I tightened all the wheel nuts about a quarter of an inch, they were that loose. When I went back to the tire store later and complained, they said I was supposed to retorque the nuts after a hundred miles and when I told him I only got 75 miles before it was loose, he walked away and would not talk to me about it anymore.

This is a real problem for everyone.  :

This pickup has just been a nightmare for tires and rims. Besides the problems with changing those mag rims, six out of the seven General tires that came on the truck when new failed by blowing up on the highway. The worst one was a left front that blew when I was in the left lane on I35 and going about 70 MPH in heavy traffic. Boy did the other cars clear out away from me when that happened and it sure was hard to control that with a blown front tire. Then I think I spent almost two hours on the side of that busy interstate trying to get that rim off the truck. I finally walked the roadside and found a four foot long 2x4 and managed to get in in behind that rim and pry it loose.

All my previous pickups had all Firestone tires on them and I never had even one fail. I even filed a complaint with the NHTSB about those General tires, but never heard anything more about the problems.

And the junk yards will not even sell you a used mag rim for those Fords or they just don't get any good used ones in. Some of them will sell reconditioned mag/alloy rims, but they want almost $400 for them.

[tyb525]

Mag/aluminum rims can be a pain to deal with, due to the corrosion and lack of strength. Many times a car will come in for a tire repair, only to find that the bead is leaking due to it being terribly corroded (alum rims)