You have ZERO freedom of speech here.!

[Smokey]

This is what I received from the owner of this forum in regards to my comments in defense of my comments in a post that was full of slander to wards a manufacturer product that was not part of the forum sponsorship.  I stated my opinion and agreed with another forum member's comments on the privileges of the sponsors on the left( I have nothing against the sponsors) 

I question the integrity of the forum and is censorship, there was a clear double standard that was being shown, When I question the owner of the forum about it this because he demanded an apology for my comments yet none of the other members had to do so for there remarks, here's what he wrote me

Jeff
Lead Administrator
Administrator
*****

   
Re: (No subject)
« Sent to: Smokey on: Today at 12:57:28 PM »
   Reply with quote Reply Save PM Remove this message
I guess that's what you dont understand, so let me make it clear. You have ZERO freedom of speech here. NONE. This is my private property that I give you permission to enter.

I wish I could show you all the pm responses that I wrote to show you how this came to be(if anyone can tell me how to get them I would love to show them to you all so you can see how childish and ridiculous this hole thing is)

What do you think of this? I used tho think that this forum was great but it's clearly a dictatorship in which if you don't go along with the status quoe your not welcome here and not allowed to freely post your opinions.

What do you member think of this crap!

Sincerely,
Jason Ashenhurst.
(Smokey) 

[stonebroke]

I think Jeff is right.

Stonebroke

[Mark K]

I think we have plenty of freedom. Sometimes things get out of hand and Jeff steps in. I stand behind Jeff.

[bull]

You have the freedom to hang yourself with admins, go to far and they will reign you in..   Try it again and the boss will hang you out to dry!!!
Jeff is in charge !!!
Its all about respect and responability..... you have the responsibility to show respect, if you fail its your loss !!

[John Bartley]

It's a private forum. We can either abide by the forum owners wishes and play by his rules or we can leave...

cheers

John

[olyman]

just like you have the right to tell someone to get of your property if trespassing--same here--hes allowing you in--by PERMISSION. end of story

[Norm]

I think Jeff has shown far more restraint than I would.

I've meet him and shook his hand, he's a good guy and what he says goes.

[Samuel]

Interesting conversation but here is my 2 cents...

This is a forum not a country so the same rights may or may not apply.  If you offend someone, slander a company,etc. the tribe can speak and vote you off the island.  A fairly simple concept in my mind, although I perhaps have crossed or came close to crossing before and with a gentle reminder, brought myself back in line.  No one is forcing anyone to be here, and there are no membership fees.  With that said, I suggest mind your P's and Q's however reading Jeff's quote without the proceeding comments... does sound a bit cranky like   :D...but that is why he is the lead admin. 

[red oaks lumber]

if this is a private forum why can the general public look at it? we should all be entitled to voice our opinoin( respectfully) not every sponsor on here has the best equipment or products ,and as wood people we should be able to give our honest feed back on things, good or bad. there are plenty of other forums out there that dont sensor your dialog, which are really more benifical far as info goes.  

[Raider Bill]

MAybe this should be put in the Full Membership section?

That said......

It's Jeff's house Jeff's rules. We may not always agree but in the long run this IS the best run forum I have ever been on populated by a bunch of great people.

You guys should maybe reconsider your position, take a breath and enjoy The Forestry Forum and what he's built here.

Like Norm said I've shaken his hand he's a stand up guy.

[D Hagens]

If the pm's were so childish and ridiculous then why wouldn't you stand up and be the bigger man and admit that in all reality that you and you only instigated the whole thing by going up against the owner who works his butt off keeping this place the way it is and understand that maybe you pushed the wrong buttons with him?
I'm thinking that with his powers he could have booted you from the start but he gave you a chance and now look how you treat him by bringing it here to air.
I'm sorry but I can hear the sarcasm in Jeff's post and maybe you should have too!

[jamesamd]

Not being a full member yet,I've no idea what other boards are waiting for Me to browse.
What I do know,is this is one wonderful source of information and a very large population of great individuals that almost always play nice.

Your feelings of being,stifled or limited by THE OWNERS of this place,to Me,just means You probably don't really belong here.

Find a board where flaming and teenagers rule.This Board IMHO,is for Men & Women that try to encourage fellow members and help them,find the solutions to thier questions.

I am not allowed to view the topic Jeff MOVED,yet but I would easiley guess,You were wrong.

Speaking from the outside!

Jim

[florida]

Smokey,

One of the things I appreciate the most about this forum is the lack of friction. Everybody here understands the rules and pretty much gets along with everybody else. I'm sure everyone here has moments when he or she would like to blast another poster or post but sits on it anyway. Every forum you go to has rules, you broke one and got called out. Let it go and no one will ever think about it again.

[Patty]

I cannot believe you are still here!  We are so narrow minded and mean, why would you want to be here in the first place?  :

[jim king]

I think if your temper is that short you should find another forum to pith and moan about.

[Captain]

With our son, who has ADHD and tends to run blindly into situations, we try to encourage him to live by the S.T.A.R. principle.  Stop, Think, Act, Review.  Sometimes catch myself over-reacting and do the same thing.

Just try to understand the viewpoint of the administration here at the Forestry Forum.  They are all a group of fair-minded individuals who give far more to the Forum than they receive.  Many, many people all over the world have been the benefactor of their time and talents, and in Jeff's example, his entire existence for the last several years.  

I'm a proud member.  I like a spirited discussion like anybody else.  But when it stops being good-natured, a referee needs to step in and sometimes feelings get hurt.  Stick around and you'll find that we are easy to forgive and forget just like beloved family members.  Hang in there Smokey.

Captain

[logwalker]

Smokey,

It took you 13 posts to upset the apple cart. Has this happened to you in the past?

I read the the whole thread that Tom sent to the woodshed and I was offended by several posts in it, not all yours. I do know what Harbor Freight normally sells and represents in the way of quality and it goes against everything I strive for in my life.

It is too bad you were so offended. If it is so terrible why don't you just leave us to our petty and close-minded little world.

But then it would be a little less interesting without you.

Joe

[CLL]

I think that there has been times that I, probably along with others have disagreed on other posts, however I will say this,"" If I had the knowledge of equipment and business wises of most of the moderators, I probably wouldn't being looking stupid as I have many times". Jeff has moved some of my posts, due to my ingnorance in putting them in the wrong place. I appreciate all the friends I have found on here and the wealth of information. My dad always said, don't bite the hand that feeds you!!!Enough said.

[Warbird]

What do you think of this?

Sincerely,
Jason Ashenhurst.
(Smokey) 

Well Jason, are you sure you want to know what I think of this?  I think a man's character is defined by how he acts around others.  And you sir, are acting like an ass.  Jeff is a good man, as has been demonstrated countless times, to many folks, over the course of quite a few years.

Now then, if you wish to stay in these parts, which is an extension of this man's home, then I suggest you stop disturbing the peace, lest Jeff closes the door on you.  Like Norm, I would have had far less restraint than Jeff has already shown you.

Good day.

[Patty]

You know, I am not normally one to gush all over the moderators. I do think they do a great job, and I do appreciate all their hard work. Especially Jeff.

I have been hanging out here for many years and I hope to have the privilege to stay many more years. Only here can I count on my friends to pray for me if I am in need. Only here do folks drop gifts in the mail to surprise me, or to help celebrate an anniversary, or to place my dad's memorial flag into for my mom. Only here can I honestly say I have friends all over the world, who would even play host to me if I decide to visit their side!

It is a nice place, and for that I am very thankful. I am even more thankful that Jeff and his moderators keep the forum just as it is, and you are not welcome to come in and disrupt what we have created.

Now, be a good boy and go crawl back under the rock, Mr smokey.

[stumpy]

I have seen many posts that criticize manufacturers both sponsors and not.  Never once have I seen someone get scolded for stating their opinion.  It is when that opinion changes to an attack that Jeff or the admins get involved.  By attack, I mean comments that are based on singular incidents and the author is slamming the company  while giving only one side of the story. in those cases, I believe it is fair to call fowl.  When one hears those kind of comments in conversation, it's easy to take it with a grain of salt.  When it's written on a forum with thousands of readers, it can easily become a firestorm with the manufacturer unable to defend themselves.  I agree this sometimes is a fine line, but that's the way it is.  As far a freedom of speech, this forum is owned by Jeff and as such, I look at it as if I were standing in his garage shooting the bull.  At any time, Jeff may ask me to leave.  Remember, You don't pay to get in here, You are welcomed in until such time as you "pi** off the cook"

[isawlogs]

  Last thing one needs do is air his dirty laundry, you have two solutions, suck it up apoligise and help us be better at what we do , or  leave, wich I think is a poor way out . Nothing can't be fixed unless you is already with Mickey  ;)
  Eather way , I will stand by Jeff, I also have shaken his hand and will do it again 

[scsmith42]

Jason, I've been a member here for a long time, have met Jeff personally, and have nothing but respect and appreciation for how he manages this forum.

There has been a lot of good advise offered to you by others on this thread.

On a private forum, we do not have the right to "free speech", because it's not ours.  It is incumbant upon us to respect the rules of the forum if we wish to benefit from it's priviledges.

[timberfaller390]

I have been a member here for a few years. There is no better place to exchange info on everything from logging and milling to farming and politics. I have not always agreed with posts on this forum by members and admins including Jeff but this is jeffs forum and he can run it the way he sees fit. I stand behind Jeff and his descisions because when it comes down to it all Jeff has to do is get tired of handleing what I am sure is a huge workload keeping this forum going, pull the plug then nobody gets to play. Jeff, my hat is off to you sir.

[Dave Shepard]

One point not mentioned, is that even where free speech is allowed, it can come with consequences if it is not employed with tact. You can insult that 400 pound biker in the bar, but there's nothing saying he won't flatten you. :D

[Lud]

I've  taken my wife to a Piggy Roast and she was impressed by the kindness and the quality of folks we met.  That they all fit together as diverse as the group was.

There's family and then there's the rest of folks.   Looks like you're in the second group........

[Tim/South]

There is nothing free about this forum, or any other forum. Someone pays the bills every month.
We agreed to the rules when we joined up and were granted the privilege to participate.
There is nothing in the Constitution, Bill of Rights or the Bible that says we have a right to speak in any manner we desire on a forum.
Being able to create this thread, and it stay up, proves that those who operate this forum are an open minded lot. Most moderated forums would have banned your account before anyone had a chance to read or reply to this thread.
I have not met Jeff, Tom, or any of the Mods here, probably never will. I can say that this is a well run forum. That is why I come here.

No one forces any of us to log in. If we don't like the music, we can dance somewhere else.

[woodmills1]

I have at times inadvertanly tested this forum, mostly by my goofyness.

But I will say this

at all times the responses have been directed only at preserving the wonderful integrity of this place

I stand in the solid line behind Jeff

there is much to learn here, unlike much of the rest of the net, we share

[DonT]

I have been a member for awhile,not as active as some but a devout reader.I think jeff does a great job of driving the boat.

[Brad_S.]

I ran a sawmill business for 16 years. The Forestry Forum didn't exist when I started out so I did all my learning the hard, expensive way....through trial and error. I freely share my hard gained knowledge here on this forum because of the environment of fellowship and sharing not found on most other sites. That environment exists only because the forum administration runs a tight ship. It is normally free of the strife, flaming and negative trolls that inhabit most internet forums and full of knowledgeable, sharing people. I challenge you to find any other site with a membership that has as broad and deep a knowledge base that shares information with virtual strangers so freely.
I have no empathy with your gripe. If you don't like the parameters Jeff sets down, move on.

[Brucer]

This is what I received from the owner of this forum in regards to my comments ...

Note the word I underlined.

What do you member think of this crap!

If I didn't agree with Jeff's policies, I wouldn't be here.

[Meadows Miller]

Gday

I dont recal reading the thread that got this one started Smokey  ;) :D but all ill say is that the replys that have been posted are true to what the Forums About  we are like one Big Family and the reason for that is all the Hard Work and ground rules Jeff as the founder and all the admins have put into it sice day one  ;)  ;D 8) 8)

He's giving you free speech right now Mate  ;) he Is  basicly giving you a chance as we say down here  ;) to Pull your bloody head in and get with the program mate  ;)  :D this is his place and your not the first and wont be the last bloke to have a topic sent to the woodshed Mate  ;) there is a reason why we have it but i havent had a chance to visit yet ;) :D :D :D

Ive spent since the time I could walk soaking up all the information i could about this industry and have been putting it into practice sice the age of 13  ;) all hard won and I felt like i was one of very few people who felt the same way untill i joined this Great Place acouple of years ago  ;) ;D ;D 8) 8) ive joined a couple of forums and lost intrest quickly due to there being too much free speech w/o any rules  : ;)   :D and there is no other place i would share my experiance ,ideals ,thoughts and point of view so freely than with this group of Fine People of which theres a fair few i feel lucky to call Good Mates now  ;) ;D ;D ;D 8) 8)

Theres one thing about a family is that most of us wont hold this against you in the long runn if you stick around get in there and contribute and not rock the boat too much Mate  ;) :D  ;) :D ;D 8)

Regards Chris

[sparks]

The neutrality of the forum is what draws people here. Jeff does not play games with the forum. As a sponser I have full confidence in Jeff and his decisions to maintain the forum as a friendly place where folks feel like a family. Though like a family, there will be bickering and things will get said, Papa Jeff is the head of the family and what he says goes.

[Ga. bow-man]

Thanks for the forum. Jeff you are the head man. Just
keep on keep'n on.

[Roxie]

I think it's hilarious that you are asking folks that have been here for years what we think of it?   :D  What answer did you expect?  We hang out here because we enjoy a dictatorship?  I hang out here because courteousy is enforced and swearing is kept to an occassional DanG (our official forum cuss word).  These folks are the salt of the earth, and I'm very, very proud to be a member.  

[Cedarman]

Kids need parents to set the line.  Some kids feel the need to see if the line has moved.  Others ignore the line.  Same results  here on the forum as when my kids cross the line .  Jeff, good job on keeping the line.  (Well, some adults do act like kids)

This is a very nice place to hang out.

[Gary_C]

Well I guess enough votes are in, we all back Jeff 100 per cent and you get no sympathy here. So I guess you need to do some self examination as to your attitudes.

[Sprucegum]

  smiley_horserider  Goodbye Smokey   smiley_horserider   smiley_horserider




Edited: Sorry about that , sometimes I can't resist being childish myself in response to another's foolishness  :

[dnalley]

In all reality I have found that the most important censor of my posts has got to be ME.  My post count would be much higher if I didn't stop sometimes and ask myself "do I really want to post that? or am I just trying to stir the pot"?  Many times I disagree with some of the posts, but as I keep reading I find that there is always someone who actually knows more about most things than I do!!  Imagine that!  And they have a broader vocabulary with a better understanding to express themselves.

I must say I am just basically a "freeloader" here.  I don't have that much to offer in the knowledge department, and really this forum helps me much more than I could ever add to it.  BUT, I have met some of the nicest friends that I would never have had the opportunity to do so without this board.  Lord willing I intend to make a few more!

I can only imagine standing in one of my friends' yard (or especially Jeff's), and having one of them tell me "Hey look my friend, you're about to cross into my personal space, and if you don't straighten up and fly right I'm going to have to ask you to leave".  That would be a sobering event for me.  I spend too much time here I know but I am a guest, just thankful that Jeff allows me to be here.  I don't make the rules.  Maybe it's time to man up and decide if you've crossed that line and move on------or apologise like the man has asked.  As the old saying goes--"the boss may noy always be right, but he's still the boss".

[trapper]

I mostly saw for a hobby.  Met Jeff once in Madison WI.  Treated me like a friend.  Like the others said HE DA BOSS  and I like what he provides here
Marv

[Modat22]

Been visiting the forum for a long time, learned a bunch. I don't agree with a few opinions posted here and there and others don't agree with mine but I've generally been treated with respect. I think the admins do a fantastic job here.

[old joe]

JASON,
      Get over it!!

Joe

[oakiemac]

Like Red Oaks pointed out, it is frustrating that a full dissucssion is not always permitted. But it is private property/forum so ya have to play by the rules.

[Mooseherder]

That one hurt.  And I disagree with both of you. :

smiley_brick hits_hardhat

[Woodwalker]

I've sit here reading all this and just remembered I'm kind of hungry. Smells coming out of the kitchen ain't helping none.

[isawlogs]

  Road here continues into our laneway , so technicaly puplic has access to it ..... that dont mean they can come and pith on my front lawn .  smiley_fused_bomb
     Just because one has access to a place sure as dang dont make it public .

[zopi]

Ok...so, guy with 14 whole posts comes in, acts stupid, trolls, then gripes because the guy who OWNS the place poke him in the eye for it?

wow...

I like the fact that pretty much everyone who came in here to stand up for Jeff has hundreds if not thousands of posts...:D

[bd354]

  While I don't have many posts on this forum I belong to quite a few others and this one is probably the best run outfit I've come across. I'm not a sawyer or even own a mill yet but I've been treated just as well as anyone else. These are the kind of people I want to be associated with and that's why I stay. The people, the info avaliable, and the moderation is top notch in my book. Thanks Jeff.

[J_T]

Yep been here a long time .  8) Jeff does a great job and the other adm's too . And it has got to take lots of time and effort on lot of folks part . Thanks  8) 8)

[woodmills1]

did ya notice, even though woodwalker tried, this is one of the few threads that didn't get hijacked toward food............... :D :D

[Husband]

I have to be honest here and say I dont know what this is all about. ???

What I do know is that Jeff and I have had differences and only that, I respect his opinion along with many others here. And I am sure (hope) it is returned as so to myself.

I have meet Jeff and others from this forum and have only great things to say about them and the way they treat others...even if we are from the other side of the world and upside down (still under debate might I add). ;D

I have never meet you myself or read the post that is in question so cannot and will not try to form an opinion on you in any way. 

However, I am sure that if you can reconcile your differences with Jeff you will find this forum to have a fantastic bunch of people who will do more than bend over backwards to help you in anyway they can. It has happened to me more than once. (from way over here)

So on that note I shall go and enjoy the rest of the forum and its posts.

Husband.

[Dakota]

I think everyone has covered the feelings we have for the Forum and Jeff very well.  I'm going to hit the PayPal button and contribute.
Dakota

[Bill]

I have not met Jeff but have exchanged a few  private messages with him - I told him what I thought and he told me his thoughts - turns out I agree with him . I have also seen other sites on the web that are basically worthless. My conclusion

1> Jeff and crew are doing a great job
2> FF is a great resource
3> I relate to FF more than other web sites - the members and crew make it

Maybe you need to look around for something more to your liking ( or realize what a good thing is right under your nose )


Think I'll get a sandwich and keep browsing FF . . .

[timberfaller390]

Doesn't look like smokey has had much to say since his original post.

[tree-farmer]

Yes Virgina there is a Jeff
He exist a cetainly as sawmills and chainsaws....

No seriously, coming to this forum is one of the best things on the Web. Jeff does as awsome job of keeping it on a even keel and informative without all the nasty back sabing, slander that goes on in a lot of forum sites. I have never met any of the memebers in person but feel that I know some of them very well from the shared stories. I have learned a lot from the fix it posts as well.

Good job by Jeff and other administratiors. I look forward to many more years of coming here, may even yet make  it to the pig roast.

[P.A. RESHARP]

I am new here also, (compared to most of you guys ) But in the short time i have been here, it is like you all have become friends. I totally apreiciate everything that jeff does here.

[Toolman]

Been here on forum for a couple years. I have zero complaints. I've been scolded once by a moderator and deserved it! The fact that Jeff allowed you to express your greivance on this thread says alot about him. You need to accept the rules or hit the pike. Simple as that. The use of this forum is a privelege, not a right. It is private property and we are the guests. I've never personally met Jeff, but, I suspect him to be a good fella from what I hear. He provides a good service here and I appreciate and thank him for that.

Tom

[chain]

I could show Mr. Smokey  a forum where freedom of speech is very limited; straying off subject, or commenting from heresay, or saying 'I guess', and a hundred other rules will get you kicked off. :D

The owner[outdoor sports forum] runs a tight ship and dares anyone to slip up, he has a hatchet man as his dirty deed mod, who has no sense of humor at all. I lasted about a year until one bright and shiny day, after they had hired and added on a new mod..from Nebraska...I promptly smacked him with a 'husker joke. Bam! just like that, I was gone!

[Texas Ranger]

Those dried up corn huskers have no sense of humor, they were really unpleasant in my day at Mizzou, we would go out there to compete in drinking and other sporting events, and they just couldn't wait for us to leave.  I think it has something to do with having no contours in their state.

[LeeB]

I been coming around here just about as long as anybody. There are a few been here longer. Sometimes I don't agree with the powers that be, but I do like the freindships and information gained here and will gladly keep my mouth shut about what very rarely rubs me wrong. Well, at least I try to anyway. I like the fact that I can come here and not be berated for a dumb question or have to put up with foul mouthed idiots even though I can and do curse like a sailor. It has it's place and this ain't it. This is really the only forum that I go to and it suits my needs quite well. As long as Jeff and the rest kepp welcoming me into thier homes and lives, I'll keep coming. If I get out of hand, please let me know so I can make ammends. I'm not a social person and you folks are my answer to that deficiancy.

[Norm]

Amen to that Lee. I'm not a social person either and if Patty and my job didn't make me somewhat of one I'd be pretty much a hermit. I was never one to join a group for morning coffee or socialize in the evening. Now I know this is going to surprise you guys on here but I'm actually a quiet shy person....no really I am! :D

[Roxie]

I'm actually a quiet shy person....no really I am! :D

Pictures don't lie.   

[Bro. Noble]

What Picture is it that you have on your mind, Roxie? :D :D :D

There's lots of new members that are unaware of that,  and better off for it.

[Patty]

I am guessing that BBQ Boy made quite a lasting impression on ol' Roxie  :D

I know it is one of Jeff's favorites too.  ;)

[Paschale]

What do you think of this? I used tho think that this forum was great but it's clearly a dictatorship in which if you don't go along with the status quoe your not welcome here and not allowed to freely post your opinions.

What do you member think of this crap!

Sincerely,
Jason Ashenhurst.
(Smokey) 

Well, as a member here since 2002, there's no question what I think.  I've seen people such as yourself come and go.  Jeff is kind enough to have created one of the coolest forums on the web.  Sadly, I looked at your posts, and you seemed to be enjoying yourself here, and seemed to be fitting right in.  I'm not sure what made things go south so drastically, but it takes a lot of hubris to think that after only 14 posts, you'd have some sort of traction with other members.

Jeff does a bang up job, and quite honestly, his vigilance over the years in keeping things friendly and amicable is one of the large reasons why people come back again and again.  I'm busier than I've ever been, and am not on the forum as much as I would like, but I still enjoy coming to hear what's going on--it's sad to see that one of the busiest threads was initiated by someone who didn't appreciate the bang up job Jeff and the other admins are doing.