First investment

[ArcFault]

Howdy guys, I am going to make my first investment into the forestry game. I need a saw and have no idea where to start. All I have is a little 14"bar husky and it does not work very well. I believe it is nearly ready for retirement.

The person who used to do the wood here used to have a much larger saw but it is MIA. The family does not know where it is.

Also, what other infortant gear is needed... (For a newbie)


Thanks a lot for any help.


Brandon.

[Ianab]

How about a brief explanation of what you will be doing?

Weekend firewood cutting in small trees needs a lot less saw than dropping 36" hardwood.

Ian

[celliott]

Regardless of what you are going to be cutting or using the saw for, you should have personal protection equipment- kevlar chaps, helmet with faceshield and earmuffs, gloves, and safety toed boots.  It is a personal choice to use this equipment, but it definitly can save your life. running a chainsaw is dangerous.

[John Mc]

ArcFault -

As Ianab said, it would help to know a bit about what you are cutting. Hardwoods vs softwoods, diameter of the logs. Are you mainly felling and limbing, or are you bucking up short lengths for firewood use, etc.

For example, what I cut is mostly 8"-12" diameter hardwoods, I do get up to 16", and rarely over that. I have some neck and back problems from an old wrestling injury, so I tend towards smaller and lighter saws, especially since when I do go out to cut, I tend to make a day of it (rather than just going out for a couple of hours here and there). I'm cutting for my own use, and working with a landowner cooperative to get firewood for the group of us. I'm not doing this for a living, but I do have an interest in getting the job done efficiently. I'd also like to avoid having to take a trip to the chiropractor after a day or two of cutting (the "Weekend Warrior Syndrome").

I have a "semi-pro" 50cc saw (Jonsered 2152, similar to a Husky 353) which I use for felling and limbing. It's lightweight, well balanced, and I can carry it around the woods all day, cover a lot of ground, and easily maneuver it for limbing. Do I wish it had more power sometimes? Sure, but the light weight keeps me coming back to it. (I did replace the catalytic muffler with a non-cat one, which made it run cooler and gave it more power. The catalytic muffler is pretty restrictive. That modification was well within my limited chainsaw mechanic skills.)  I run a .325 pitch chisel chain - threw out the safety chain that came with it. I have a 16" bar which handles most of my needs. I'd rather go at the occasional larger tree from both sides than carry around a heaver saw or longer bar all day.

I also have a Husky 357XP (a pro saw which is basically a 60cc saw) that I tend to use for bucking the trees to firewood length. It weighs more than the 2152, but has noticeably more power. Since I'm not running all over the woods with it, the weight for power trade off was worth it. I make a lot of cuts when bucking, so the extra power saves some time. I run a 3/8 pitch chisel chain on this, still with a 16" bar. (I do have a longer bar, which I might put on if I know I have a day of cutting bigger wood.)

On both of these saws, I tended to stay away from the "homeowner saws" of similar size/power. Soe of these are fairly well made, and would hold up OK for the amount and type of cutting I do. For me, however, the extra weight of a lot of these saws as compared to a similar powered pro or semi-pro saw was not something I wanted to deal with. It doesn't seem like much, but even an extra pound can make a difference.

I could probably get away with just one saw, if I had to. In reality, I tend to use them interchangably a good bit of the time (which did I leave closer to where I am... which one happens to have a sharp chain at the moment, etc.) I'd have a hard time deciding which to get rid of now that I have both.

I offer the above more as an example of the kind of things that went into my decision-making, than to convince you to run out and by one or both of these saws. Your situation is probably different than mine: you might be cutting different sizes or types of wood. You might be in a lot better shape, so lugging an 80cc saw around all day may not bother you. I would urge you to match the saw to the type of work you are going to be doing most of the time. You don't need to run out and buy the biggest saw you can afford (or lift) with the longest bar it can handle just because you might run into a couple trees a season that can really put a saw like that to use. If you only have one saw, match it to the job you will be doing most of the time. You can still use it on bigger wood, it just might take a bit more doing. The trade off is that you'll probably be better off at the end of the day, and less fatigued. Fatigue makes you think and react slower, and that's not something you want to push your luck with when running a tool like this.

Sorry for the long ramble. Hope this helps. Please fill us in on what kind of work you'll be doing, how much of it, and whether you have any other considerations: making a living at it vs personal use or something in-between, age/condition (the typical 20-something year old's body can take more abuse than those of us who are getting up there in age a bit). Are there dealers in your area who have a good reputation for supporting their customers?

Good luck with your decision.

[chucker]

  !! HI, AND WELCOMTO THE SITE!! since you already like the jonsered saws the next best sized choice from my view would be the 2159 .......2159 matched up with a 18" bar and chipper chain in 3/8 should handle all your needs.its just a little more in weight and bulk then the 2152.... plenty of power for this saw! take care in personal protection equipment and learn from the mistakes all our members have shared with everyone!! again "WELCOME TO FORESTRY FORUM".....

[ArcFault]

I am for the most part cutting poplar and white pine. The pine is quite big 20" or so.. The poplar is slightly smaller. Not much hard wood that I can get too. A lot of nice maple but it's to much for my old Fergusson. For now.


I went and bought a face shield/ hardhat combo.  And some pants. I already own the safty toed boots.

There is one dealer here he sells husky's but I was told he just rings the cash. Not much of a help.

[Randy88]

I'd recommend finding a dealer who knows sometihing and can fix it and buy a saw from him along with some plastic wedges to help you out an axe, gas and oil mix, bar oil, spare chains, I prefer two saws anytime I'm in the woods in case you get one pinched and can't get it out, but the wedges and ax can help out as well, a log chain and clevis if you've got the tractor handy or pickup, saw files, chainsaw wrench with screwdriver to adjust the chain tension, spare chains, all the above mentioned safety protection equipment, including ear plugs, if your not a seasoned sawyer take along a cell phone and keep it on your body at all times in case of a problem and you need help, if you don't have a cell phone take along a friend,  always tell someone where your going and when your getting home and be home by then or make sure they come looking for you, accidents can and do happen.    I run the pro series stihls, a 660, 460, 361, anywhere from 16- 28 inch bars all interchangable amoungst saws.   

Remember the most important thing ever, life is whats important not equipment, never sacrafic safety to save equipment, equipment can be replaced but not body parts or human life.   Don't try to save a saw and get killed doing it, abondon the saw to save your ass.   I've seen it happen where someone gets focused on thier equipment and not wanting to have it damaged only to get injured or killed in the process, never let it happen to you, I tell my kids and family that all they have to tell me is "I'm safe and unhurt but the saw didn't make it" and as long as their safe and unhurt I don't care what it cost for equipment I can buy that new tomorrow but I can't replace them.  They get the lecture every time we head out for the day, that was ingrained in me from little on and now I'm the one telling it and over the years only a few bars have been damaged but in those instances someone could have been killed trying to save the saw, its just instinct I guess to protect your equipment and forget about safety for even a second, expecialy when your new and the stuff costs a lot of money and you don't have it to spend.

[John Mc]

As Randy88 pointed out, two saws is great to have when working in the woods. you can cut one saw out if the bar gets pinched and you can't free it.

If two saws is not in the cards for you right now, a spare bar and chain is the next best thing. If you get stuck, just remove the powerhead fro the stuck bar and chain, put in your spare, and cut the first out.

John Mc

[ArcFault]

As Randy88 pointed out, two saws is great to have when working in the woods. you can cut one saw out if the bar gets pinched and you can't free it.

If two saws is not in the cards for you right now, a spare bar and chain is the next best thing. If you get stuck, just remove the powerhead fro the stuck bar and chain, put in your spare, and cut the first out.

John Mc

Yeah I never thought of that. Does a saw getting pinched happen a lot? Or is it a freak accident type thing?

[JohnG28]

Pinching a bar is not exactly a freak thing, and happens to the best pros and the beginners alike.  Being as your still pretty new Im sure you will get a taste of it sooner than later.  Having 2 saws or a spare bar/chain is a good idea, as well as a few wedges.  These can get you out of a jam pretty well.  The info already given here is a very good starting point, these guys have ya on the right track.

[ArcFault]

Pinching a bar is not exactly a freak thing, and happens to the best pros and the beginners alike.  Being as your still pretty new Im sure you will get a taste of it sooner than later.  Having 2 saws or a spare bar/chain is a good idea, as well as a few wedges.  These can get you out of a jam pretty well.  The info already given here is a very good starting point, these guys have ya on the right track.

Well, when I go out I generally bring my current saw. Two weges and a maul.

[chucker]

  worst case you will find your self in is felling a tree with the bucking spikes set in a tree on the face cut and pinched!! pinched with no room to remove the bar an chain from the power head. slack is needed to remove the chain and with out your in for a work out!! i would never think of heading to the woods for a days work with out a second saw at hand. lucky to have the 2054 stuck once to the hilt, and lucky again to have a jonsered with a e clip on the driver for a easier removel....  best of luck!!

[beenthere]

Pinching a bar is not exactly a freak thing, and happens to the best pros and the beginners alike.  Being as your still pretty new Im sure you will get a taste of it sooner than later.  Having 2 saws or a spare bar/chain is a good idea, as well as a few wedges.  These can get you out of a jam pretty well.  The info already given here is a very good starting point, these guys have ya on the right track.

Well, when I go out I generally bring my current saw. Two weges and a maul.

If not an extra saw or bar/chain, then at least have an axe along. Will/may save the day. Sometimes can go a long time without a pinch, then all of a sudden it happens. Tugging and pulling just doesn't work very often, and can break things (so I've heard  ).

[Randy88]

I've always got an axe along even with two saws and its been years since I've used it but its along, and I have always got several wedges, mine are steel and those haven't been used in decades but again they are in the truck, as they say one of these days I might need them and I"ve got them.  As for pinching I've got one of my sons who can't run a saw for five minutes without getting his saw stuck and one who's never pinched his ever, its just how you run them and study the tree and limbs and figure out how things react, everyone's different. 

[John Mc]

As for pinching I've got one of my sons ... who's never pinched his ever

At least not that he'll admit to?

[Okrafarmer]

I am for the most part cutting poplar and white pine. The pine is quite big 20" or so.. The poplar is slightly smaller. Not much hard wood that I can get too. A lot of nice maple but it's to much for my old Fergusson. For now.

Arc, there's a lot you can do with your old tractor that you may not be aware of. If it runs worth beans you should be able to pull out maple trees. My dad's '48 John Deere B would pull out two 16" maples tree length together at the same time. If the tree is too big, cut it into logs you can handle. Even a quite large diameter tree you should be able to pull in short pieces, 8-12 feet long, or whatever. If your Massey's running right, you should be able to do it, if you have good tires. If not, you might consider getting some chains for it, if you can find some used (on internet, or whatever) or they'll cost less than new tires and you'll be able to bite in. Make sure your individual rear wheel brakes work, too, as you can use them to help control rear wheel slippage, especially in situations where one wheel gets on ice but not the other one, etc. Use your 3-point hitch to lift the front end of the log off the ground A LITTLE. This will put your traction on the rear wheels and also help keep the front of the log from snagging on stumps and stuff. [For smaller, lighter logs, it is ok to lift them higher off the ground, 2 or 3 feet if they're not very heavy for the tractor]. Go slowly when you have a big log on like that, no faster than about 2 mph (3 k) unless you know you are on a smooth skid trail where you are not going to hit any bumps or stumps. If the front of your log hits a stump dead on it will most likely cause the tractor's front end to lift off the ground-- sometimes lightning fast. When skidding large logs you must drive with your foot hovering on top of the clutch  pedal ready to plunge it in instantly if the front end comes up. Also, drive very carefully through terrain where there may be stumps, rocks and other obstructions, avoiding hitting them with the end of the log. If you are traveling on a known skid road where you know there are no obstructions, you can feel free to go faster depending on the terrain, the load, and the condition of the tractor. Just know those old beasts can upend themselves in a hurry and if you don't have a roll-bar and seat belt you could be crushed instantly. Use common sense. Don't ever stop thinking about what's happening, and think safely. Don't drive a tractor or operate a chainsaw when you are angry or really preoccupied or upset about something. Take time to calm down and let it pass. Some time I'll share my full aspen pinch story with you. Never lose track of what's going on.

I wish you good fortune with your enterprise, buddy! Keep us posted as to how you do.

Jim

[Randy88]

John Mc, read it and laughed, thats about right, that ones has enough common sense to either get himself out or go get another saw to saw himself out anyway I don't have to go and help him or worry about him getting hurt or doing something stupid.   A couple of my other kids, now thats a whole different story, lets say the woods isn't where they call home or being in their element to say the least.   

Reminds me of a comment my father-in-law told me one day many years ago, my kids were pretty little and were getting into trouble doing the same things repeatedly and I made the off hand comment of "do they ever grow up and learn" and he looked at me and said "are you talking to me and asking me" I said yea maybe and he said " how the h*ll should I know my oldest is only 56 I"ll let you know if it ever happens", I've thought back on that over the years and I guess he's right no matter how old they get they are still just my kids. 

[ArcFault]

I am for the most part cutting poplar and white pine. The pine is quite big 20" or so.. The poplar is slightly smaller. Not much hard wood that I can get too. A lot of nice maple but it's to much for my old Fergusson. For now.

Arc, there's a lot you can do with your old tractor that you may not be aware of. If it runs worth beans you should be able to pull out maple trees. My dad's '48 John Deere B would pull out two 16" maples tree length together at the same time. If the tree is too big, cut it into logs you can handle. Even a quite large diameter tree you should be able to pull in short pieces, 8-12 feet long, or whatever. If your Massey's running right, you should be able to do it, if you have good tires. If not, you might consider getting some chains for it, if you can find some used (on internet, or whatever) or they'll cost less than new tires and you'll be able to bite in. Make sure your individual rear wheel brakes work, too, as you can use them to help control rear wheel slippage, especially in situations where one wheel gets on ice but not the other one, etc. Use your 3-point hitch to lift the front end of the log off the ground A LITTLE. This will put your traction on the rear wheels and also help keep the front of the log from snagging on stumps and stuff. [For smaller, lighter logs, it is ok to lift them higher off the ground, 2 or 3 feet if they're not very heavy for the tractor]. Go slowly when you have a big log on like that, no faster than about 2 mph (3 k) unless you know you are on a smooth skid trail where you are not going to hit any bumps or stumps. If the front of your log hits a stump dead on it will most likely cause the tractor's front end to lift off the ground-- sometimes lightning fast. When skidding large logs you must drive with your foot hovering on top of the clutch  pedal ready to plunge it in instantly if the front end comes up. Also, drive very carefully through terrain where there may be stumps, rocks and other obstructions, avoiding hitting them with the end of the log. If you are traveling on a known skid road where you know there are no obstructions, you can feel free to go faster depending on the terrain, the load, and the condition of the tractor. Just know those old beasts can upend themselves in a hurry and if you don't have a roll-bar and seat belt you could be crushed instantly. Use common sense. Don't ever stop thinking about what's happening, and think safely. Don't drive a tractor or operate a chainsaw when you are angry or really preoccupied or upset about something. Take time to calm down and let it pass. Some time I'll share my full aspen pinch story with you. Never lose track of what's going on.

I wish you good fortune with your enterprise, buddy! Keep us posted as to how you do.

Jim

I meant more that I can't get to them. I know the tractor is tough. I've seen some stumps of what this thing has pulled out before.

[JohnG28]

I am for the most part cutting poplar and white pine. The pine is quite big 20" or so.. The poplar is slightly smaller. Not much hard wood that I can get too. A lot of nice maple but it's to much for my old Fergusson. For now.

Just curious, is the pine that you are cutting for firewood?  I recall that you said in another post that you are helping out your girlfriend's family with maintaining a firewood supply.  I realize that you said the hardwoods are more difficult to get to, however the hardwoods are what you would be looking for if your cutting for firewood.  I know that pine can be used as firewood, but it is not a very desirable wood to burn.  Just a thought.

[ArcFault]

I am for the most part cutting poplar and white pine. The pine is quite big 20" or so.. The poplar is slightly smaller. Not much hard wood that I can get too. A lot of nice maple but it's to much for my old Fergusson. For now.

Just curious, is the pine that you are cutting for firewood?  I recall that you said in another post that you are helping out your girlfriend's family with maintaining a firewood supply.  I realize that you said the hardwoods are more difficult to get to, however the hardwoods are what you would be looking for if your cutting for firewood.  I know that pine can be used as firewood, but it is not a very desirable wood to burn.  Just a thought.

I know, all I can get to is poplar and pine. LOTS of poplar. So I just rediulous amounts of it. They go through a lot of wood here. At the far back corner and just on the other side of the marsh is where all the maple is. I can't get to it. I tried pulling it through the swamp. Lost it. It sank. I also tried putting it on a little slay type thing while pulling it across the swamp. I still lose it.


What type of wood is burch? I can see a bit of a hill and it looks like there may be some yellow and a decent number of white on it.

[Okrafarmer]

Birch is a hardwood and quite good for firewood. Yellow birch burns well, but is much harder to split than white or gray birch. White and gray birch burn fine too and are easier to split. If you use a wood splitter you should be able to handle the yellow birch better, it will still take longer to split up than white birch, aspen, pine, or maple, but it will burn much better than aspen or pine and will be worth the time to split it if you use a splitter. If you split by hand, cut your firewood logs really short if you have a hard time splitting them. The shorter they are, the easier to split. And the fewer splits you have to make on them. Check on the commercial value of birch in your area-- if you have any large straight ones they might be worth selling as saw-logs. But they do make good firewood, maybe even better than maple or about the same.

[SwampDonkey]

Your yellow birch is just as good as sugar (rock) maple and beech. It'll put out a lot more heat than that aspen (poplar). It will be like.......hey I'm warm now for 6 hours instead of 20 minutes with a nice 16" wide slab in the furnace along with a couple smaller sticks. :D :D You'll have to think ahead and get the wood seasoned well to get good heat. Burning green wood looses a lot of BTU's to getting the moisture out of the wood. Aspen as I remember will dry fairly quick, but it's still like burning kindling, that's about all anyone around here uses it for in NB. I'd freeze to death with the stuff. :D You might even find some bur oak around that swamp and that would be even better heat. Even white ash would be better than poplar. Oh and the trick to splitting that yellow birch or sugar maple is split it in the winter when it's frozen. Splits a lot easier before it begins to dry. I've taken 6 foot long yellow birch bolts and split them down the middle by axe in the winter time to make canoe paddles, so it's not that hard to work with at the right time. ;)

[ArcFault]

Interesting, but I could never get any of the wood near that swamp. I don't own anything that can do it.


We get down to 40-C somtimes and they've aparently never been cold. But I don't doubt they go through more wood then people who have better wood.

[JohnG28]

One though on that hard to get wood in the swamp is to wait it out until it freezes up good in the winter, then get in there cutting and dragging out.  I know it doesnt help right now, but you wouldnt be using this wood this year anyway.  Get a good saw in the meantime, then cut and drag all ya can while its froze over.  Once ya got a good pile you can buck into stove length and split at your landing area. 

[ArcFault]

One though on that hard to get wood in the swamp is to wait it out until it freezes up good in the winter, then get in there cutting and dragging out.  I know it doesnt help right now, but you wouldnt be using this wood this year anyway.  Get a good saw in the meantime, then cut and drag all ya can while its froze over.  Once ya got a good pile you can buck into stove length and split at your landing area. 

Man, am I an idiot or what... Why did I not think of that. I wonder why my girlfriend's dad never did that. Well, those trees are mine this winter then.