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little help please (Update)

Started by orion388, January 14, 2014, 10:59:06 AM

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orion388

I have a gentleman I have sawed for five times for a total of 11.5mbf of red oak. The first three times payment was made at the completion of sawing as agreed on by our signed contract. At the completion of time 4, he said he didn't get to the bank. Resonable enough as we agreed to saw on a Saturday friday night.  Time 5 when I show up he pays me for the previous sawing, but when we are done no cash. Now I'm sitting here waiting to meet him and I get a text. He not coming ... options???

Thanks in advance

John
LT35HD, Kubota L4330, Stihl 361, 026, Massey Fersuson 55, Ventrac, Grasshopper, Small dumptruck and a huge yearning for knowledge from this forum.

Chuck White

If you both signed a contract, you could take the client to small claims court, but if it were me, I'd try and hang in there in hopes of getting my money without legal action!
~Chuck~  Cooks Cat Claw sharpener and single tooth setter.  2018 Chevy Silverado and 2021 Subaru Ascent.
With basic mechanical skills and the ability to read you can maintain a Woodmizer  LT40!

Jim_Rogers

Don't saw again until you work things out.

Ask him what's up? maybe he will pay you soon and it may not be a problem.

As this has happened twice, you may want to ask for a deposit up front. When he says why? tell him you need to get paid when the job is done, to cover your time and expenses.

Jim Rogers

On a multi day sawing job I ask for $500 at the end of the first day as a deposit towards the entire job. This gives me expense money to buy fuel and other things during the job.
Whatever you do, have fun doing it!
Woodmizer 1994 LT30HDG24 with 6' Bed Extension

orion388

Thanks for the replies...

I do have alittle concern about the contract as he is in a neighboring state as my business license is in VA and he is in WVA. Virtues of living so close to state lines.

He swears he will pay me, however this has been dragging on for two weeks now. I just don't understand agreeing to meet someone when you don't have the cash in hand and then calling at the agreed meeting time with "can't do it today" .. Yes I'm frustrated but really trying to be patient and give the man the benefit of the doubt.

He sent me pictures of another ~2500bf he needs cut yesterday. HA like that's gonna happen till we are settled up... Thanks Jim for the advice on a deposit! I had not even considered that in the past, seems like a "no brainer now" ..

John
LT35HD, Kubota L4330, Stihl 361, 026, Massey Fersuson 55, Ventrac, Grasshopper, Small dumptruck and a huge yearning for knowledge from this forum.

Magicman

You both should be able to talk openly about this because both of you know the agreement and the fact that he has been "slow" paying.
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

beenthere

John (orion388)

If he has another 2500 ft to saw, that is your trump card.
Assuming you are going to his place with your saw, I'd maybe arrange for a sawing date (he'll get his logs together and likely some cash) and show up without the saw. Expect to get paid for what is owed and then say you will be back with the saw at a later arranged day. Leave the shoe on the other foot for a while and if you go back, then say their is a deposit up front. Surely he can't expect you to saw without being paid.
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

dgdrls

Quote from: orion388 on January 14, 2014, 10:59:06 AM
I have a gentleman I have sawed for five times for a total of 11.5mbf of red oak. The first three times payment was made at the completion of sawing as agreed on by our signed contract. At the completion of time 4, he said he didn't get to the bank. Resonable enough as we agreed to saw on a Saturday friday night.  Time 5 when I show up he pays me for the previous sawing, but when we are done no cash. Now I'm sitting here waiting to meet him and I get a text. He not coming ... options???

Thanks in advance

John

Good Morning John,

Always an unfortunate situation when sawyers are not paid for services.

I like Jim_Rogers system and have read others systems here on line
where sawyers receive payment for work completed at the end of each day and require
a deposit before starting.

Hope you were able to square-up.

DGDrls



drobertson

I am thinking he will pay you, it just stinks to be put off, he could very well have a valid reason, don't help you any but it sounds like he is satisfied with you,  hope it all works out for you,    david
only have a few chain saws I'm not suppose to use, but will at times, one dog Dolly, pretty good dog, just not sure what for yet,  working on getting the gardening back in order, and kinda thinking on maybe a small bbq bizz,  thinking about it,

giant splinter

Set up the next round and show up ready to work, remind him of the prior invoice and collect the money for the unpaid invoice.
Then begin with a few questions about the sawing project at hand and simply explain that you cant fund his project and need a to be paid upon completion for the work you are about to perform, if he has any problem with that approach come back with the idea that he could advance you a partial payment to cover your expenses and then pay the entire invoice upon completion at the end of the days work. If he shows any sign of these ideas not being acceptable you might want to see if he would be interested in paying an additional fee for funding and interest on the work you are performing for him, work out a different agreement that might work for everyone in other words ............ if he refuses to understand your point, thats the ideal time to bid him a fond "adios amigo" and bail out with your payment in hand for what you had already completed.
There are people that will never understand no matter how things are explained to them, it may be by design in many cases and for any sawyer to be dragging a payment because a client just thought it was ok is not acceptable. It's always best to keep all options available but if you get to the end of your rope and you can feel a fuse about to blow just jump in your truck and book, leaving the client spinning in the dust ........ surely this will put things in perspective. ;D
roll with it

orion388

Thanks for the advice and encouragment men.

I'm not hounding this gentleman, in fact he's contacted me twice to set up payment since the original post. And guess what both times he's failed to show up, always with an excuse way late in the day.

Going back on the pretense of sawing again is out of the question for me. I can't stand a liar and to me saying you are going to do something and not doing it makes him a liar in my eyes. At this point I'm just going to try to be patient, civil and professional in my actions in hopes that the 800+ dollar payment is made.

Nice lesson learned :)

John
LT35HD, Kubota L4330, Stihl 361, 026, Massey Fersuson 55, Ventrac, Grasshopper, Small dumptruck and a huge yearning for knowledge from this forum.

schmism

I like the idea of showing up to saw,  and not setting anything up till you get paid for the first job.  once that bill is settled, then say "due to being late on the last 2 jobs, ill need to be paid up front for todays sawing else I'm going home"

If he has cash to pay you for that days work then paying you up front should be a non-issue especially given how much work you have done for them in the past.   If he balks at paying up front.   walk.
039 Stihl 010AV  NH TC33D FEL, with toys

orion388

Last message from the gentleman. "I'm not going to pay, I suggest you contact an attorney".

I guess the ball is in my court now.

After that message I did contact the Kiln owner where the lumber was taken too and gave him a heads up. He was appreciative of the call. Maybe only one of us will get stiffed, although he has the advantage of holding the goods.

John
LT35HD, Kubota L4330, Stihl 361, 026, Massey Fersuson 55, Ventrac, Grasshopper, Small dumptruck and a huge yearning for knowledge from this forum.

thecfarm

That is mighty nice of him. People like that you want to tell them to contact a hospital. But you can't
Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

beenthere

Small claims court I'd think.

Especially if you have it in writing (i.e. emails) that he said he would pay, and/or some other documents of the various phone calls or contacts that identify his offers.

Seems an attorney wouldn't be needed to file in small claims court but don't really know that.

Get all your paperwork in order and visit the court.

Wish you luck.
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

rph816

Small claims usually doesn't permit a lawyer (let alone require one).  My advice would be that you also look into lien statutes.  As long as someone other than the debtor has possession of the goods, you may have a shot at enforcing the lein by holding the goods (it appears as though you have a decent relationship with the kiln operator).  Worst case scenario, you may be permitted to sell the goods to cover your loss.  If you have an attorney, now wouldn't be a bad time to call, but $800 get's gobbled up pretty quickly in attorney's fees.

It's really too bad when stuff comes down to this.

Jeff

After a little conference with orion388, come to find out, this is the same guy that bid up the Forest Axe support auction, then disappeared after winning the auction. He was also banned from the forum. His forum name was hillbillyhogs. You can't find him via a member search as he was banned quite some time ago. orion388  didn't meet him here, but discovered he had been a member here.

Beware of doing business with anyone with the first name of "Russel" or "Rusty"  from Martinsburg, WV 25404  If you think that this guy may have ever contacted you, and you want more info, I can always give it to you privately. I have his address.
Just call me the midget doctor.
Forestry Forum Founder and Chief Cook and Bottle Washer.

Commercial circle sawmill sawyer in a past life for 25yrs.
Ezekiel 22:30

thecfarm

Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

jcbrotz

Quote from: Jeff on January 28, 2014, 04:51:10 PM
After a little conference with orion388, come to find out, this is the same guy that bid up the Forest Axe support auction, then disappeared after winning the auction. He was also banned from the forum. His forum name was hillbillyhogs. You can't find him via a member search as he was banned quite some time ago. orion388  didn't meet him here, but discovered he had been a member here.

Beware of doing business with anyone with the first name of "Russel" or "Rusty"  from Martinsburg, WV 25404  If you think that this guy may have ever contacted you, and you want more info, I can always give it to you privately. I have his address.

FYI I have been scammed by him also. Didn't get any of my money or lumber but none the less. I talked this with Jeff shortly after the Axe auction. So as always be careful out there.  I Feel bad cuz I know this guy does this crap, but he probably found you via craigslist like me. Which is hard to police.

I would talk to the local cops since it sounds like you have contract they could atleast speak with him, never know it may help.

I believe I still have  2 of his phone #'s and 2 email address's he contacted me with if you need/want them Jeff.
2004 woodmizer lt40hd 33hp kubota, Cat 262B skidsteer and way to many tractors to list. www.Brotzmanswoodworks.com and www.Brotzmanscenturyfarm.com

Jeff

He never actually got anything out of me, other than my time. I think I'd talk to the police if I was you. If he is using the internet to find people to scam, there are all kinds of neat things they could scare him with that might get him to cough up your money. It is clear to me what the guy is because here we have 3 different stories going. How many scams has he committed we don't know about?  Yea, I think the police might be interested in the guy. Odds are, they already have had some contact with him.
Just call me the midget doctor.
Forestry Forum Founder and Chief Cook and Bottle Washer.

Commercial circle sawmill sawyer in a past life for 25yrs.
Ezekiel 22:30

orion388

UPDATE..

I attempted to contact the Martinsburg Police Dept. However the Chief has the same last name.. Backed off that real quick. :) Blood is always thicker than water. Currently awaiting a call from WVA State Police scam division.

In the event anyone here local to the area needs his contact info, PM me and I will provide name, address and phone numbers. This guy is a real piece of work. I feel lucky now that he only stiffed me for one sawing.

John
LT35HD, Kubota L4330, Stihl 361, 026, Massey Fersuson 55, Ventrac, Grasshopper, Small dumptruck and a huge yearning for knowledge from this forum.

MAI

orion388,
I think I would contact an attorney now.  At least get some feedback from them.

I had good success in small claims court.  I initially started by sending a Certified Letter (Signature of Receipt Required) to the person who owed me money and basically stated that I was going to take him to court if payment wasn't received by a certain date.
Of course, he didn't pay so I took him to court.  He did appear and was flat out scared and real nervous. I brought all my documentation, invoices, payment receipts, emails, the contract and stated my case.  The judge had some unkind words for the individual and we came to an agreement that I was to be paid a set amount on the 1st of the month for the next 6 months.  I was paid off in 6 months.  The court fee was $30.00.   It's worth a shot.

Jim_Rogers

QuoteI attempted to contact the Martinsburg Police Dept. However the Chief has the same last name..

Well, that could be a good thing. If he is related then he could put more pressure on this guy to straighten up his act and pay you off before you move further to put the "family" name in more hot water.

If he isn't related then it good be a good thing as he would/could put more pressure on this guy to straighten up his act and pay you off before you move further to put the "common family" name in more hot water.

I would call in and ask whomever answers the phone if they know if he is related or not. Then you can know and form your questions to the Chief based on that.

The Chief may not like the guy because he is dragging the family name down.

Worth a try at least.

Jim Rogers
Whatever you do, have fun doing it!
Woodmizer 1994 LT30HDG24 with 6' Bed Extension

orion388

Thanks all...

Talked to the state police. that was an eye opener. the officer knew him by name and even said "I have arrested that drunk several times" . He's referring it to the District Attorney for review since he had paid for services rendered previously. Also suggested small claims court, which I will do.
I hate dragging this out but, At this point all I'm after is to prevent this "person" from scamming another member of this forum. I know he will attempt it again as I have pictures of logs staged to be milled after I finished his last pile.

BEWARE OF MILLING REQUESTS FROM MARTINSBURG WVA FOR ANYONE NAMED RUSSELL OR RUSTY M###ER

John
LT35HD, Kubota L4330, Stihl 361, 026, Massey Fersuson 55, Ventrac, Grasshopper, Small dumptruck and a huge yearning for knowledge from this forum.

Jeff

Good for you John! And thank you for thinking of your fellow members. :)

(As I suspected on the cops already knowing him)
Just call me the midget doctor.
Forestry Forum Founder and Chief Cook and Bottle Washer.

Commercial circle sawmill sawyer in a past life for 25yrs.
Ezekiel 22:30

beenthere

south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

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