Totally Confused (quarter sawing question)

EZ · October 22, 2003, 04:28:34 PM

On another site a guy post, If he would saw flat sawn boards in half, would they be considered Q-sawn. And everyone said yes. I always thought when you Q-sawed it was for the beauty of the grain and the stability of the board. But now after reading about these postings, I'm all screwed up.
EZ

Texas Ranger · October 22, 2003, 04:32:32 PM

Only the edge grain, the board doesn't change

Tom · October 22, 2003, 04:38:32 PM

EZ,
Think "vertical grain".

Quarter sawed relates to a method of obtaining verical grain boards.

Go to this link- Wood Handbook -and look for the description of Quarter-sawed and flat-sawed in chapter 3-2. It gives a pretty good explanation.

JoeyLowe · October 22, 2003, 04:57:27 PM

Hi EZ:

Tom would do well to post those pics on the woodweb board too. What they guy was saying was that if he takes a center cut flatsawn board and removes the center of the board, would he end up with two quartersawn boards? The answer is yes and no. The only thing for sure is that he would definitely have three boards. One of the boards would be flatsawn and the other two would be somewhere between quartersawn and riftsawn.

Jim_Rogers · October 22, 2003, 05:03:51 PM

I've heard it said that if an annual ring ends in one face and then the other end isn't in the same face it could be called quarter sawn, but for me that's a stretch. In other words take a flat sawn board and cut it down the middle would be quarter sawn.

It should be that both ends are in opposite wide faces, not an adjacent face regardless if it's wide or narrow.

Jim

Tom · October 22, 2003, 05:37:46 PM

The example given in the Hand Book is a board cut from the very center of a log such that it includes the pith. They consider that a Quartersawn board. Y'all should really read the description because definitions as described in the Hand Book sure come in handy when you have to explain something to someone who is trying to be contrary. :D

fencerowphil (Phil L.) · October 22, 2003, 06:43:58 PM

It is easy to get confused. I have noticed myself saying this:

"Take a look at the flakes in this nice quartersawn
white oak and red oak." :

What I am really saying is that these boards have grain patterns, as if they were cut by the quarter sawing method, giving the vertical grain pattern. Technically, a board can qualify as "vertical grain", if the growth rings cut through the face at an angle greater than 45degrees, on up to 90degrees.
As we have seen ourselves, however, the optimum ray patterns for Sycamore, and the oaks are visible when the growth rings cut through at the perfect 90 degree angle. Thanks to Tom for the end view sketches of the three main grain patterns.

Quarter sawing is something I, technically speaking, never do, but I do deliberately use methods at times to yield cants which can be sawn in such a way as to yield vertical grain boards.

So, the term "quarter-sawing" can indeed mean the method of quartering a tree, then alternately sawing off the two flat faces of each quarter, until gone. When this is done, the boards are really sawn "quartersawn". When I use the term, I should really be saying "vertical grain", since I plan for these slabs and cants in early cuts to produce the same result by a different means.

More good references: :P
Understanding Wood by Bruce Hoadley
The Encyclopedia of Wood by ? (I forget)

Phil L.
P.S. To make this even worse, the terms "quartersawn", "radial grain", "vertical grain", and "edge grain", can all mean the same thing. The first two terms refer to how the board's position lies in a log. The second two terms refer to how the grain looks, when you look at the end of the board. :-/

Tom · October 22, 2003, 07:15:09 PM

If you really want to complicate a conversation, the term vertical grain and edge grain is softwood terminology and quarter-sawn is a hardwood term.

A real smart fellow once told me that the purpose of language is to communicate. If you didn't communicate then you just said a bunch of words. :P

fencerowphil (Phil L.) · October 22, 2003, 07:30:29 PM

Gosh, I was so confused about the oak,

   that I must have ended up right,... in the first place

  by,... er..., ACCIDENT!
   :D

Phil L.

   Yabba, dabba, dooooo. 8)

Minnesota_boy · October 22, 2003, 07:33:25 PM

Tom,
I thought the purpose of language was to obfuscate. You know, words like secure, and insecure or flammable and inflamable.

Tom · October 22, 2003, 07:43:17 PM

:D I believe obfuscation is a social dilemma brought about by insecurity and ones' inability to believe in his own knowledge. Another smart fellow once categorized this inability as being "educated beyond ones intelligence". :D

Minnesota_boy · October 22, 2003, 07:52:23 PM

Is that related to the Peter Principle? The one that states that in any organization, one will be promoted to the level of one's incompetance?

Brian_Bailey · October 22, 2003, 07:56:08 PM

Another term for quarter sawn is,"Standing Years"

.

mhasel · October 22, 2003, 08:18:24 PM

Tom,

Thanks so much for the pictures, which really helped me, I had the same question about quarter sawing the day they delivered my Woodmizer. It was explained and in the materials there was an article but it seemed to click tonight after reading and seeing this post.

As for the comment "educated beyond his intelligence" I couldn't agree more with that sometimes plus it doesn't hurt that is one of my dad's favorite descriptions:) Until today I hadn't heard many other people use it, pretty kool huh!!

Mike

Tom · October 22, 2003, 08:32:25 PM

Thanks Mike!
:DYour dad must be a pretty smart fellow :D :D

ARKANSAWYER · October 22, 2003, 09:39:44 PM

Well DanG it! I was going to rip all of my flat sawn boards in half and sell it as Qsawn lumber. I have been having a problem with keeping the quarter on the mill when I saw to produce them qsawn boards. Then yous start talking smart and I got confused and forgot what I was a doing. Next Tom tells me I can not quarter saw my pine any more. Iam going to bed.
ARKANSAWYER

EZ · October 23, 2003, 03:34:37 AM

Thanks Tom and all. For a moment I was way out of this world. Pretty simply once I got back to earth, maybe I should hear with my eyes instead of my mind. Thanks again.
EZ

oakiemac · October 23, 2003, 06:38:04 AM

Thanks Minnesota Boy for the defination of Peter principle! Boy howdy, is it prevalent in modern corporate America ;D

fencerowphil (Phil L.) · October 23, 2003, 08:36:58 AM

Gosh,

I hope we never get into which version of the Bible
is our fave.

We'd be even hopelesser than we already are.

(Since "obfuscate" qualifies as a word, then "hopelesser" has to!)
:D

Phil