Lucas mill slabber ruffle pics

Seaman · December 13, 2012, 09:54:19 PM

After dressing the bar, my slabber cut smooth for a couple of logs, then started the ruffle pattern again. Various sharp chains produce same effect.
Could the leading edge of the bar being higher or lower than the trailing edge cause this? do you shim to adjust, and where do you measure from?

Saw also cut on an upward angle in one log, bout one inch in six feet.Caused bar to bow upward in center. Pulled log out and put in another softer log which cut almost perfect. Put in third log, maple like the first, and cut an even slab. Could tension in log #1 cause problem?
In kind of a bind cause these are customers logs and I need to get it right.
Any help appreciated
Frank

Okrafarmer · December 13, 2012, 11:09:49 PM

If it's the same customer I think it might be, now I don't feel so bad about my band blade dipping a little bit in the pecan crotch I did for him last week. :-\

Hope you can get it figured out, Frank, that has got to be aggravating. I had a lot of trouble like that with the band mill I used before the Woodmizer, though I eventually figured out a lot of the problems and worked through them one by one.

Hopefully the Aussies will be online soon and can help you "suss it out" as they like to say. It's "brekky" time over there right now, I reckon. They're probably pouring another "cuppa" and trying to get their eyes open enough to check the FF before heading out for another day at the mill. ;D

sigidi · December 14, 2012, 04:30:41 AM

Well I've finished for the day now, didn't have time to check in this mornin - have to move my whole millsite :'( but that is another story.

Frank, I tend to get this pattern when I've taken the rakers back, have a really nice sharp chain and/or push too hard, is it only showing up on the entry side of the cut and sorting out by the time the chain exits the log? That is from operator position the washboard is on the right side of the log but eases out on the left side? I've also got quick cut speed and this rough 'washboard' when I took the chain closer to 15 degrees.

With the one log giving you trouble and a softer log being ok, I'd be inclined to say on the harder log either its tension or trying to force the chain through by 'pushing'

Have you seen how to 'level' the bar using a straight edge, tape measure and the mill carriage (front and back)? Having said that if its cutting fine in 2 out of three logs, I'd say your bar is level just an issue with either tension in the log or choking the chain pushing too much.

With the washboard effect, try leaving your rakers for the next 3 sharpens and then see how its lookin and/or bringing your file angle closer to 5 deg (it will slow your cuts a little but will give a much better finish)- let us know how ya go

This is the typical finish I get on my slabber....

I tend to file a little less than 10 degrees, but pretty close to 10 degrees (definitely not more than 10) and use a Carlton File-o-plate exclusively to set rakers. This timber is our Queensland Ironbark, it runs at around 1,250kg per cubic metre (or 6.5lb/bft) and no problem goin through the crotch grain of this fork either

terrifictimbersllc · December 14, 2012, 05:07:44 AM

I've seen it too occasionally. In very hard wood, or when rakers (depth gauges) are too low, or once when trying out a 30 degree top plate chain which was later taken to 15 degrees. Very light version of it here and there is common in very hard wood. My chain is 15 degree top plate angle, with grinder set at 75 degrees from horizontal (15 degrees from vertical). Lately I've used Oregon 404/063 harvester chain (it's stamped with a 16 on the drive link). Can't comment on whether bar condition aggravates this, I keep the bar square by filing off the burr with a Pferd bar dresser from Bailey's.

Seaman · December 14, 2012, 07:36:15 AM

Thanks fellas, I haven't filed my rakers at all, and sharpen at about 12 deg. or so. I am going to try a gauge on the file to keep the deg more consistent. I have a 40 tho gauge for the rakers but have been afraid to use it.
I will look at the bar real close today and try to find level. Can you push too hard? I just lean on it with my body weight sorta.

Seaman · December 14, 2012, 07:50:36 AM

Sigidi, It is all across face of log, but not straight across, which doesn't make any sense. It does make a difference which side you push from. I had the settup on a pretty good downward angle, let it feed itself, and still got washboard.
Thanks, Frank

shelbycharger400 · December 14, 2012, 10:06:47 PM

That pattern looks very familiar !
I dont have a Lucas or Peterson, but I have/built my slabber
I run a 3/8 chain, 36 in bar. Rakers set at 25-30 thousandths. I had ran full set and that didnt work out but that was before a auto tensioner. Best grind I did have was pair of cutters, skip 5, pair. The skip 5 set I modified so the tails were cut off , making them into Modified rakers. It cut very nice, surface was nearly planed with very little chatter. Latest grind I have now is I cut the modified rakers off, so its just pair, nothing for about a foot or so then a pair. I had to put in a auto tensioner on my belt drive, its jumpy and wants to tear the log out of the clamps. It cuts about the same speed, seems to want to stick in the cut more so than before If I feed it too hard. I don't have anything to compare it to, but I did saw a walnut that was half dry at 11 to 12 in dia and didn't chatter too bad on one side cutting close to the pith, but did when shaving an inch off the outside. I have a few cottonwood slabs at 15 in wide that match the chatter you have in the photo.

I have bent the bar in the cut, cutting a boxelder that was 20 something wide, lots of dirt. The chain was dull. You can feel it having more resistance. If you have to push hard something is wrong! I tried sawing a banana once, trying to saw the arc off the back. I broke a clamp and a 7 foot neat prospect mantle sturned to rubble, after 2 attemps to cut and dived, clamp broke, then I "cleaned" up the damage with the chain saw to burn my disaster.

Seaman · December 14, 2012, 10:23:02 PM

Checked my bar today, it was down in the leading edge. Took it off to redress the edges with the proper tool.
Curious thing tho. Set the rails dead nuts level, then checked the carriage, they don't match. Looked at all the wheels and they look fine. So when I put the bar back on, I am going to level it with the rails rather than the carnage.
Of the list of things which can cause washboard, all were wrong with me and my saw. Going to pay a lot of attention to reassembly of bar and sharpening, then not push so hard.
Will let you know how it goes.
Thanks for all the advice form you slabbers!

Frank

Okrafarmer · December 14, 2012, 11:31:58 PM

Never underestimate the problem of pushing too fast. Probably, that goes for any type of saw in any type of material. I know for bucking logs with a chainsaw, I've always found that it is best to "let the saw cut its way through", ie, don't push it hard. If it won't cut, something is wrong-- probably needs sharpened or some other sort of attention.

hackberry jake · December 16, 2012, 12:33:09 AM

That happened on a Osage orange log I had milled. I thought I was because the frame rails were rocking side to side.

sigidi · December 16, 2012, 04:02:11 AM

Frank!!! I am confused, how can your carriage not be level with your rails? can you take some pics of it to show us? cheers mate

Okrafarmer · December 16, 2012, 11:40:16 AM

Quote from: sigidi on December 16, 2012, 04:02:11 AM
Frank!!! I am confused, how can your carriage not be level with your rails? can you take some pics of it to show us? cheers mate

Maybe we're finally getting to the real problem!

sigidi · December 16, 2012, 05:07:41 PM

Yer I'm rather confused by that one ???

Axe Handle Hound · December 16, 2012, 07:49:59 PM

I stopped in at the commercial mill/lumber shop yesterday and they had some large slabs of elm, walnut, and willow for sale. I noticed they all had at least a little of this same ruffle pattern on them. It wasn't consistent across the slabs, but it looked like it was more prevalent at knots and areas where the grain switched up. Unfortunately the man who cuts them wasn't there so I wasn't able to ask his opinion on what causes it, but clearly you're not the only one with the issue.

Seaman · December 17, 2012, 09:24:12 PM

Sigidi, it isn't off enough to see in a pic, but when the rails a level using a 4 ft level, I put the level on the carriage, bottom side and the bubble is a little off. Shows the front of carrage a little high. I looked at the wheels that ride on the rails, and all looks good. No adjustment to these wheels, so I am not sure .
I will take some pics all around, maybe something you will notice that I don't, I've never been around another Lucas.

sigidi · December 18, 2012, 05:09:48 AM

Hopefully that DVD will help on this and a heap of other things, in the mail tomorrow

Seaman · December 18, 2012, 07:54:25 AM

You are the MAN!

Seaman · December 18, 2012, 07:14:49 PM

Got to cut a perfect slab today . Guy who sharpened chain said my 10 deg filing was good, and he took 30 thou off rakers. So it looks as if the whole problem was rakers being too high, which someone mentioned in an earlier post.
Thanks for all the help, I will keep you updated.

sigidi · December 18, 2012, 08:29:01 PM

Quote from: Seaman on December 18, 2012, 07:14:49 PM
Got to cut a perfect slab today . Guy who sharpened chain said my 10 deg filing was good, and he took 30 thou off rakers. So it looks as if the whole problem was rakers being too high, which someone mentioned in an earlier post.
Thanks for all the help, I will keep you updated.

GREAT NEWS!!! good stuff Frank, I only use a carlton Fil-O-Plate for rakers, you'll love how simple they are

logboy · January 11, 2013, 08:33:32 PM

I take the rakers down on all my chains to .050. I never had a problem with it until a month or so ago cutting a real wide pine. The angle was 15 degrees on the grind and was cutting great. Too great actually. It kept loading up the cut with sawdust to the point the bar was climbing in the cut. I started cutting forward a few inches, then pulling the mill back to clear the sawdust before progressing forward again. The downside to doing this is it leaves a line every time you start and stop, but it cuts straight and true. I ran it by Warren Lucas and he said they had a similar problem with their super slabber when cutting an 8' wide walnut. No two logs are the same. What works great on one might be terrible for another. I may make another chain with the rakers at .035 for the rare occasions I'm cutting stuff like that.

shelbycharger400 · January 11, 2013, 10:38:47 PM

logboy...
I had similar issues such as what your saying. I run 28-30 thou on everything for now. 50 thou loaded up too much, but that was before I put in an auto tensioner for the belt. I kept changing things and trying new things, seems a real fine line im closing in on. Removing my teeth with the legs removed, grinding them down to the chain gone, was a step back . It dosn't cut any faster than the chain ground pair, skip 5 set, where the 5 set was ground to a slasher tooth. I also have a lot more break- out at the end of the boards or the edges.
Check that chain, Let me know if find that the bottom cutters are slightly duller than the top cutters . When I cut a 24 in wide red cedar I had this go on. A 9 foot pass, resharp, one pass, resharp ect.

To sum up my rambing, the heavy modified chain, works better in wider stuff, seems to want to bind up in 10 in wide pine and cedar. It cut a 10 in cracking dryer walnut log just fine and it was 33 deg out doing it.

I need to get a tach on it, so I know my exact chain feed rate. Its in the neighborhood of 6000 rpm. Sawdust flys!

Im considering going to carbide empregnated chain, but reading even erc is abrasive on full carbide . 114 link isnt too bad considering.
I havent ran the mill cince the 2nd week of dec. Its been too cold for me and not worth it.