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95 Rottne Rapid SMV

Started by danbuendgen, June 16, 2016, 06:48:39 PM

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danbuendgen

I decided to start a new post for my 95 Rottne we were discussing. My last post was "thinking about a grapple skidder" but I ended up with a forwarder instead so it seems to make sense to get a fresh start..

Its a 95 Rottne Rapid SMV with a 6 cylinder Ford engine. It seems to start, run and drive back and forth well. Loader has good power, has a few leaks but noting bad, and the a/c does not work. The worst leak is one of the swing cylinders, it has a steady drip at the end.

Just got it today, had to drive it 20 minutes down a gravel road to the job site, wicked rough ride with the good corked up chains and tracks.

I ran the loader at the landing, practicing and sorting the wood, and the wires under the seat kept falling out shutting off the boom. So I cut off the worn out spade connectors and put on new ones, guess I forgot to turn off the power, and blew a fuse in the process. Went into town and got fuses, came back, replaced the burnt up fuse and the boom worked again.

Then, after a half hour or so of playing at the landing, the hot engine light started flashing, the temp gauge was about 95* Celsius. I just did a conversion and that is about 203F, which to me does not sound too hot. Warm but not hot. Perhaps the gauge is not accurate? I shut off the machine anyways, and the coolant sounded like it was boiling. I checked the level and it had plenty of water. The radiator did look a little bit clogged. I could not see through it, it also seems to have a small radiator for the size of machine/engine... I did not see a over flow hose anywhere which seems weird. Any thoughts on the overheating? Maybe the radiator is a little plugged with dust, and machine grime. I will try to blow it out tomorrow. Or the thermostat is stuck, how do I test that? The fan seems to spin fast, but it is sucking in, not pushing air out. All my forestry machines had/have pusher fans and not suckers, could I reverse the fan so its not blowing hot air on the motor and into the cab?

I have some general Rottne questions also:
1, What does this machine use for the transmission oil?
2, Will any hydraulic oil work for the hydraulics?
3, The motor oil only has 10 hours on it, but it is almost 2 years old! Should I just change it out anyways, especially because it was getting hot today? The oil looks very clean not dark/black. How much oil does the 6 cylinder Ford hold? I assume 4 or 5 gallons. I could not find a drain plug, so I guess I will need to drop the belly pan. How does that system work? I saw some bolts that hold it on, but it also looks like there is a jack to get it back up? It looks wicked heavy... I suppose I will figure that out soon enough...

Any info or tips would be good. THANKS!!!
Husqvarna ~ TimberJack ~ Dodge Cummins

snowstorm

46 for oil bolth hystat and crane if the heater for the oil tank is on shut it off. valve may be on the rite side of motor. if the swing cylinder is leaking look for a broken bolt. 4 for each cyl. with an oring. i bought every one heavy m achines had but they will get more. like i said before dont spend money on fixing the factory ac. if you dont belive me then go to it. easiest way to drain engine oil is with the air compressor drain line. take it off and put it in a 5 gal pail. radiator must be clean. dose it have the oil cooler beside it? it will cool better with the fan pulling. if you want it to push. push the fan blade in and turn half a turn. do the brakes work?? if so you have the only one that dose

danbuendgen

Ok, Gotcha 46 for both transmission and hydraulic. I am not sure about a oil heater valve on the right side of the motor, for the on and off, I will look into it tomorrow. Are you saying at the end of the swing cylinder there is just a O ring? Could I just use RTV sealant or equivalent? It does not have a broken bolt. They all seem ok. I will take the bolts off and see what I looks like in there soon. Can you give me more details about the air compressor drain line? Sorry, This is my first Rottne so I am learning as I go here... I will try to clean the radiator with air tomorrow, and try to blast out that crap. It does have the oil cooler beside it. The oil cooler looks fairly new, and radiator looks original. I will keep the fan pulling if it works better. I think the brakes work, but I haven't left the landing yet so time will tell.... I guess if they don't work, I will use the blade. I will look into fixing the a/c when the money starts to flow in. It's not easy now, I am on a job heavy into firewood, and I can't seem to get rid of it, and don't want to let it go for pulp quite yet. Until I am desperate.
Husqvarna ~ TimberJack ~ Dodge Cummins

snowstorm

4 swing cyl. 4 bolts each. heavy cast cap. that goes over the barrel that is where the oring is. never use rtv on hydraulics. the oil tank heater used engine coolant. follow the heater hoses on the motor should be a shut off there. to change motor oil. drop the belly pan. 2 bolts in the front. 13\16 socket and there is a latch left side. the drain hose on the compressor is on the bottom that goes to the engine oil pan. its a small line so it drains slow oil needs to be warm. 

danbuendgen

SnowStorm, thanks for the info.
After dinner I am heading back to the job site and will start working on the machine. I want to try to blast out the radiator, hopefully its just got machine grime in there plugging up the fins. And pull the thermostat, I hope it has a part number stamped on it. Change engine oil. Check hydraulic heater, and shut off. And take the leaking swing cylinder apart. Grease all the universals. Check all oils. I am sure I wont get it all done before dark....But I will at least get a good start.
Husqvarna ~ TimberJack ~ Dodge Cummins

danbuendgen

Snowstorm, at normal operating temperature what does your water gauge say?

Last night I blasted out the radiator with my air compressor and got a lot of dust out, but I still cant see through it. I think I need to try a pressure washer. I removed the thermostats, just to run it and see if it still gets too hot. I did reverse the fan blades just to see how hard the fan pushed through the radiator, and it seemed to have plenty of air passing through it, but not as much as the newer looking oil cooler. Also, I was looking at the plastic coolant reservoir and it has a hose on the top that goes back to the top of the radiator, is this how yours is set up? If this is stock, what does the system use for a overflow vent? If the cap is the vent, why did it not blow coolant out when the overheating light was flashing??

Basically I did all this stuff and ran it for a half hour or so, and the water gauge was at like 80 Celsius and the flashing overheating light was not flashing, but when I shut the motor off I was hearing a bubbling/gurgling sound from the motor... So I guess the issue is I not my thermostats, and possibly my gauge is off. And its still getting too hot.

My buddy let me borrow his infrared gun, and I will check things out with that today, and I can see how accurate the gauge is. And will see if I can pressure wash the radiator, hopefully that land owner will let me use a hose, and not mind the mess too bad.

How can I tell if the water pump is working properly? And how can I check to make sure the radiator is flowing coolant properly? I know I can just flush it with a hose, but this would be a better project to do at my place or in a shop, and not at the land owners, leaking some coolant and blasting a greasy machine in their dooryard.... but I am not going to pay to move it 2x for this.
Husqvarna ~ TimberJack ~ Dodge Cummins

snowstorm

80 c is 176 f . what i have found is with the fan pushing the cab is cooler an the motor runs hot. the plastic tank is the overflow. what you hear after you shut it off dose it sound like oil dripping back in to the oil pan?

danbuendgen

At first I thought the sound was oil dripping back to the oil pan too, but it sounds more like boiling, and continues for 10 or 15 minutes. I did the conversion (temp C x 1.8 + 32 = temp F) , and 80 Celsius seems perfect temp, but the other day it was at 95C (203F +/-) and the hot water light was flashing. I think 203 is hot, but not ready to overheat...

Time will tell, like I said, I have the infrared detector and will test things with that today, and I will know exactly what is going on.... I hope.
Husqvarna ~ TimberJack ~ Dodge Cummins

snowstorm

with the iveco its oil running back dont know about the ford motor. heavy machines is your only parts source. good luck. there are getting better

danbuendgen

Quote from: snowstorm on June 18, 2016, 07:05:24 AM
with the iveco its oil running back dont know about the ford motor.

I think you are right about the oil running back to the sump. I started the machine and let it idle for about five minutes, and shut it off, and I could hear the same sound.

The engine is running hot though.... I got about 1/2 a wagon load together, and the water got up to 100*C and the hot engine light started going off again... So I parked it for a long time and when it cooled off, I took it straight back to the landing. This is with out the thermostat in, so the saga continues. The land owner was out of town today, so I couldn't ask about using a hose for the pressure washer to give the radiator a good cleaning. I hope a dirty radiator is that's wrong. Other then that I do like the machine. It gets excellent traction and the visibility in the cab is very good.
Husqvarna ~ TimberJack ~ Dodge Cummins

allaboutsawdust

Hi guys, longtime onlooker first time poster on the forum. I see your new to the rottne's and after being in your shoes not that long ago and having to learn on the fly without a lot of help I felt I would I would try to help you out the best I can. One thing I would try with the bubbling in your engine is start your engine and build air pressure then drain your air tank and see if the symptoms go away. As a rule it's a good idea at the end of the day to drain your air tank anyway to drain any moisture collected, especially in the winter. I know in my rottne I had an instance where the check valve in the air regulator stuck open and with the engine off the air would over power the valves in my compressor and pressurize the oil pan and that's where the bubbling was coming from. The whole air system in these machines can be a big pain to keep working right that's for sure. Hope this helps with your question.
A father son cut to length team with a '00 rottne smv harvester,  and a 2010 rottne smv forwarder, '74 664 clark ranger skidder.

danbuendgen

allaboutsawdust, thanks for the tip, Good idea to drain the air tank. I assume the valve is on the bottom of the air tank? I saw a valve on the left side of the motor with a air chuck for a air hose, do I drain it there? Or do I need to lift the cab to access it? Like I said before, this is my first Rottne Forwarder, and I am learning on the fly.... I really need a operators manual for it. Any info or tips would be great!

Also, how do I lower the belly pan? I removed the 2 bolts today, and cant figure how it lowers. I see there is a jack set up for it. Is that to lower it or raise it back up? The 2 springs for the belly pan look stretched right out....

I just spoke with the land owner, and he said I can use a hose for a pressure washer. I hope that will work out to clean up the radiator. The radiator looks very small for the size of motor in this thing.Otherwise I may need to get it re-cored, and its plugged on the inside...I was wondering if it (like the a/c system) is not designed for hot summer weather use.

THANK YOU
Husqvarna ~ TimberJack ~ Dodge Cummins

allaboutsawdust

To drain the air tank on what I consider the passenger side of the machine at the base of the cab near one of your hood latches There should be a little ring to pull that goes to the tank.

To drop the pan loosen the two bolts first and then on the air compressor side of the machine there should be a latch. That jack you are talking about is to lift the cab (make sure to loosen the two cab bolts before jacking) and that's where your air tank, fuel tank, pumps and batteries are located. As far as your overheating issue I would really start at the radiator, we have never had any issues with coolant heat issues on either of our rottne's.
A father son cut to length team with a '00 rottne smv harvester,  and a 2010 rottne smv forwarder, '74 664 clark ranger skidder.

danbuendgen

Ok thanks,

On my machine, there is a jack under the cab and and second jack by the motor on the "drivers side".

I did see the ring attached to a small cable on the "passengers side" today, and wondered what it was for. Thanks to you I know what it is!

I agree, the over heating issue is most likely the radiator plugged up on the outside and not letting enough air past, or plugged on the inside, not allowing coolant to flow... I hope its the first.

Has anyone had any luck with those DIY coolant flush cleaning kits? I have never had a over heating issue with any truck or equipment that I have owned yet...
Husqvarna ~ TimberJack ~ Dodge Cummins

allaboutsawdust

Ok the jack under the cab is a little bit of a mystery to me I have not seen that before. Usually you just see the one jack on the side of the motor which is for the cab.
Not to try and derail your thought process on the over heating issue but now that I think of it when my father first got his forwarder he had a similar situation and it turned out to be a gauge. It never got as hot as what your saying  but we finally got wise to it when the machine went over a bump the gauge would fluctuate, we did also use an infrared thermometer to double check before fully blaming the gauge. I know the company that makes the gauges vdo has a distributor somewhere in pa where you can order gauges and sending units. I know a friend of mine just had a custom gauge and sending unit made up by them for his buncher and was pretty happy with the price and results.
A father son cut to length team with a '00 rottne smv harvester,  and a 2010 rottne smv forwarder, '74 664 clark ranger skidder.

danbuendgen

Oh, Maybe I forgot to mention this already... My buddy loaned me his infrared gun and I used it today, when the gauge was around 100*C the back of the block was at around 220*F, the upper radiator hose 212*F, and the lower hose was around 200*F. The thermostat housing was around 210*F, so I feel like the gauge is more or less correct. The motor was running hot....
Husqvarna ~ TimberJack ~ Dodge Cummins

allaboutsawdust

Ok sounds like it's a little warm then. Good luck on your troubleshooting and if you run into any real technical problems having Rikards phone number from heavy machines is a must. He will be able to walk you threw most any problem you encounter on that machine, I know he was a lifesaver when I first got my harvester. As far as parts go I have to agree with snowstorm that so far heavy machines has been a bit dissapointing so far but they do seem to be getting better as of late.
A father son cut to length team with a '00 rottne smv harvester,  and a 2010 rottne smv forwarder, '74 664 clark ranger skidder.

danbuendgen

This is a bit off topic, but how do you like the Rottne harvester? How big of tree can it handle cutting and processing? I see your out of Winchester NH not too far from me, just over the border, how does it do on un-level ground? Is it 6 or 8 wheeled? Once I get some things paid off, and more work ahead of me, I want to get some kind of harvester...This Rapid SMV is the first step for me. THANKS AGAIN!
Husqvarna ~ TimberJack ~ Dodge Cummins

North River Energy

Running without the thermostat will probably get it just as hot as with a faulty thermostat. The coolant can't dump it's heat through the radiator if it's moving too fast through the system. The point of a thermostat is to control the flow, which then affects the rate at which the coolant can absorb/ dissipate heat.

I'd be hesitant to blast away at the radiator with a pressure washer, unless you've done so before and not damaged anything.
Maybe try oven cleaner or similar degreaser, then low pressure water from the hose. It doesn't take much grime/debris to insulate the cooling fins and impair radiator function.

Fan belt tight and in good condition?

danbuendgen

Yes the fan belts are good, and very tight. I will re-install the thermostats today. Just tested them in a pot of hot water and they work well. My plan with the radiator cleaning was to spray some degreaser on it from both sides, and wash it off with the lowest pressure setting on the pressure washer. That way it wont crush the cooling fins. I have seen that happen before at a logging out fit I used to work for...
Husqvarna ~ TimberJack ~ Dodge Cummins

teakwood

I think Your radiator is reduced in the inside, and you can not pressure wash that. I have tried those radiator flush chemicals with more or less satisfying results. Maybe others had better experience with other brands. But give it a try, they are cheap.
National Stihl Timbersports Champion Costa Rica 2018

Plankton

I've had good luck with washing soda and water cycle and flush a few times to clean out oil and gunk in the radiator used it on a few tractors and the skidder oily gunk that comes out when drained is impressive. Never tried any commercial blend maybe they work as well or better but washing soda is cheap/free if you already have it in the house.

barbender

     One other thing- it is amazing how quickly airborne debris (pollen, dust, pine needles) can plug up the front of your radiator.  On my Ponsse forwarder, there is screen mounted in front of the radiator to keep all that stuff out of it. One spring when it was in for a service, the mechanics pulled my screen off for something and didn't replace it. I was having to blow my radiator out with a leaf blower at least once a week or my engine and hydraulics would start to overheat. The screen just looks like a metal mesh window screen, the mesh is small enough that most debris tends to fall off when you turn off the engine.
Too many irons in the fire

danbuendgen

Today, I pressure washed the radiator (with low pressure setting), the crap that came out was mind boggling... And re-installed the 2 thermostats and it still runs too hot. Guess I need to re-core the radiator or clean it from the inside with chemicals.....bummer. The radiator has no leaks, so I guess its plugged up on the inside...

Allaboutsawdust, I did what you said: started the machine and ran it for about 5 minuets, and shut it off and draining the air tank, and when the air was drained the bubbling sound quite immediately, so how do I fix this issue again? In dummy terms. I am a visual/hands on learner, not too good at reading things and understanding them. I assume this has nothing to do with the overheating issue I have.

How do I find the check valve and air regulator?
Husqvarna ~ TimberJack ~ Dodge Cummins

danbuendgen

Quote from: Plankton on June 19, 2016, 01:17:20 PM
I've had good luck with washing soda and water cycle and flush a few times to clean out oil and gunk in the radiator

What do you mean by "washing soda"? Like Borax or equivalent? I may as well try it out, before doing any radiator repair work... How do you do it? Drain coolant, add plain water and "washing soda" and run the machine, and drain it. And do it again, again and again, until the water coming out looks clean???
Husqvarna ~ TimberJack ~ Dodge Cummins

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