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trees and bees, can it pay to plant cover crops in young forests?

Started by eastcoastbeek, September 23, 2017, 09:05:38 PM

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eastcoastbeek

I don't think the noise will bother your prospective bees at all.  They will be fine near your mill.  But the 3/4 acre of new forage will not tip the balance to feed your bees.  A hive forages up to 8-10,000 acres and the amount of flowering trees or wildflowers in that big region is more crucial to hive health than a new small meadow.  Every bit helps and I don't want to rain on anyone's enthusiasm, but I want to be realistic.  Put up your first hive and see how much honey it collects, then you know whether your bees have the food resources to expand in the future.  Often one beehive collects lots of honey when another one just 5 miles away collects very little.  Regions vary greatly.

eastcoastbeek

Quote
I also have limited knowledge of bee keeping and have tried no treatments but will be using various treatments in the future. i have been told to not use the same treatment more than two years in a row so the mites do not become immune. ideally one type per year.
In general this is good common sense.  There is an effective treatment method using oxalic acid which been used widespread for 15 years without losing effectiveness.  But wherever you can, it is a good policy to vary the type of treatment to prevent resistance.  Some of the treatment methods take more skill and experience so another factor to consider is what type of treatment you can make without harming your bees. 

eastcoastbeek

Quote from: Southside logger on December 23, 2017, 09:04:17 PM
I am going to send you a PM right now.  I would be very interested to speak with you about working together on our land in southern Virginia.  On our land I am actually doing something very similar with silvaculture as the goal.  I have played with bees for a couple of years with no degree of lasting success, mites got me two years ago, not really sure what happened a few weeks back when I lost several hives, but I have zero background with bees and nobody to mentor with.  For what it's worth we use zero herbicide or insecticides at all on our property.

I got the PM and have enjoyed the conversation. 

DDW_OR

Quote from: PA_Walnut on December 24, 2017, 05:14:51 AM
.........Any comments about how much/large of a bee colony this may support and will the noise from the mill irritate the bees. The spot which I'd place hives is 250-300' from the mill.

Thanks!

Place the hives in an area that is not used much so they do not get disturbed.
I agree the noise from the mill will have little effect on the hives.

use a motorized radial extractor to get the honey out of the frames.
"let the machines do the work"

DDW_OR

I got my first hive off of Craigslist 12/07/14. it turned out to be a weak hive so i had to baby it through the winter. fed it sugar and installed a 3 foot heating tape on the bottom board.

the first year, 2015, i had two swarms move into my empty hive boxes, that made 3 hives total
in its first summer i got 12 frames of honey using the hand crank. as my mentor stated as he inspected the hives "no body gets this much their first year"
the reason is i am almost in the middle of nowhere. and there are very few beekeepers near me
and lots of blackberry.

2016, got 27 quarts of honey from 18 frames using the electric motor. my extractor is a 9 frame from http://www.brushymountainbeefarm.com/Advanced-Extracting-Kit_2
had to buy the motor separately

this year, 2017, i started with 4 hives. one died, one got drowned when the lid blew off during a rain storm. and the wet spring delayed honey production. so i could only get 3 frames safely

so in 2018 i will be splitting my remaining 2 hives to make 4. since i have 166 acres i will move the splits to the other end of the property. and install a solar electric fence to protect them from predators, bear, raccoon, skunk, and people.

lessons learned:
rise hive 2 feet off of ground
heavy brick or block on top of lid
hive medications to treat honey bee parasites
MOTORIZED extractor. it is like having an extra helper
in my area i have to worry about humidity in the hive more than the cold

tried putting a long heat tape around the extractor to add heat to make the honey flow better. it worked great. had to re-wire the tape so it would work at temps above 45 deg F
tried adding a water heater blanket, but it was a mess to clean
"let the machines do the work"

eastcoastbeek

DDW, it sounds to me like you're doing everything right.  Depending on how long your honey flow is in the spring, you might purchase a couple of queens and split your hives early in the year, when your flow is beginning.  Often these splits fail because the bee population is too small to keep warm, but in your part of the country that is less of an issue. 

I only suggest this because I get the impression that you have more hives when you wrote that you had a couple of empties laying around to attract swarms.  If you're out of hive bodies, no need to make more splits.  Also, with your acreage, you might do some selective plant growing to help your bees along your fence lines or any land that is not being worked for a higher purpose.  You're right, blackberries are a very good source of food for bees.

Most people say that your plantings will make no difference but I think an acre of good bloom during the dearth will keep your hives alive and could still work with the other goals you have for your land.

eastcoastbeek

Oops, upon re-reading your post I see that you have already decided to make a couple more splits.  Nice to see an alignment of thinking. 

DDW_OR

the Douglas County Beekeepers Association sent out this news article.
further study is needed but outcome is promising. unless the Varroa mites develop a resistance.
___________________________________________________

Accidental Discovery Could Save Bees From Their Greatest Threat

They've found that a tiny dose of the compound lithium chloride kills Varroa destructor mites without harming bees.
https://www.realclearscience.com/quick_and_clear_science/2018/01/15/accidental_discovery_could_save_bees_from_their_greatest_threat.html
"let the machines do the work"

mike_belben

I have read sourwood trees produced exceptional honey.  It definitely grows in the southeast and is otherwise useless.  Unless you like to make arrows, it is the most prolific coppicing tree i have encountered and the shoots are very straight. 

Deer will eat on the first year of shoots but will prefer gum ir maple sprouts (which also coppice great) over sourwood by the second year.  I have clumps of sourwood shoots that grew from zero to 7ft in one season.  Nothing else here grows that fast.

http://mtnhoney.com/types_honey.htm
Praise The Lord

Southside

Quote from: mike_belben on January 21, 2018, 08:30:44 PM
I have read sourwood trees produced exceptional honey.  It definitely grows in the southeast and is otherwise useless.  Unless you like to make arrows, it is the most prolific coppicing tree i have encountered and the shoots are very straight. 

Deer will eat on the first year of shoots but will prefer gum ir maple sprouts (which also coppice great) over sourwood by the second year.  I have clumps of sourwood shoots that grew from zero to 7ft in one season.  Nothing else here grows that fast.

http://mtnhoney.com/types_honey.htm

Don't y'all have kudzu down there?   ;D
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mike_belben

Ive seen it on my roadtrips along a lot of interstate but not anywhere in my area yet.
Praise The Lord

Kbeitz

I hate Crown vetch. It almost ruined our Christmas tree farm. You can't kill it.
We have lots of problems in my area with bears stealing our honey.
Collector and builder of many things.
Love machine shop work
and Wood work shop work
And now a saw mill work

TheRidginian

How about sweet clover? 
I like it.  Years ago everyone was worried about the coumarin (sp?) that forms after flowering as it can kill livestock.  It tolerates a wide range of soil types, is cheap and can be frost-seeded.  I use it for a long term-cover crop (2 years or more before plowing down) or in the hog pasture after they have done their worst) :D and grazing before it flowers.  It flowers a little later than a lot of the trees and native plants.    Buckwheat might be an option the first year, though it doesn't fix N.  Crimson clover is nice, but I don't think the bees can reach the nectar.

From a soil erosion standpoint, I think the cover crop would be worth it even without pollinator benefit, or even helping the trees get started.

If you are already mowing between the rows, white clover seems to be beneficial to the bees, though the fellow that keeps bees on our place doesn't put much stock in it.  They work it pretty heavy, though.  Busy bees and all that...  Of course it shades out easily.

I am converting some acreage of poor woods into silvopasture slowly, so we are sort of going in opposite directions, but with some shared goals.  I hope to read more about your endeavor!


ESFted

Just in case you have not yet checked them out, let me suggest Ernst Seeds as a source for native seed mixes tailored to a variety of needs.  I've been retired for a while, but used to use them all the time.
https://www.ernstseed.com/products/
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