I am starting to incorporate some finished products in my business..
One of the products I want to make will require a dovetail run length ways on a planed 4x4 I'm thinking a 1" dovetail...I need someway that I can run several thousand lineal feet at time
If I understand, you are wanting to join shorter 4x4's at the ends to make longer 4x4's, using a single dove tail?
Or making a corner joint?
For me, would need a bit more explanation...
Good question....I am running them the length of the 4x4 preferably longer lengths that will be cut into shorter pieces....
I want to put planking that matches into the into the Dovetail
For what product?
U looking for a tool bit to make the dove?
What will power the bit?
:) More good questions.,.... I guess what I want to know no is what piece of equipment and or tooling should I buy to do this.... I'm thinking a normal routor wouldn't hold up long. I'm am going to do this in Cedar....Would a shaper be the best way or a overhead type routor or a bit in a drill press ... Or is there a better way ????
So...... to summarize.... I am going to make a Dovetail type joint running the length of a 4x4 that will then be cut to length.... the Dovetail will be having a 5/4x6 piece inserted into it hopefully with matching angles....
I want to know what is the best piece of equipment to buy to make these matching joints..... and possibly a brand that would be recommended.... I am hoping to be doing this on a seasonal high production type level... :P
Hopefully you have made some trial runs to test the strength of what you are going to make, before investing a lot into the equipment end. Several passes on a table saw will make the dovetails to test.
Strength of a dovetail along the grain isn't very good as wood splits easily.
A drawing of what you have in mind will help visualize the intent here. Not sure I fully understand what the plan is, but a drawing will help sort some of that out for others as well. And others may have experience doing this and can offer good advice.
I would try a Delta 3HP shaper or similar with a router bit spindle. They were a accessory with the Delta. You would probably have to get a custom router bit made but there are folks that do things like that. I don't know if you could feed it fast enough for production but it might be a place to start.
You might also call a few shops that make custom tooling and machines for there ideas. Try Bobby at Woodworkers Tool Works first and also try G G Schmidt. Those guys are the real experts.
From a production standpoint I would see if you could make the dovetail using a moulder. You would need to run the board through vertically and cut the tenon with cutters from each side.
Cutting the mortise is another challenge though, as I don't see a way to do so with a moulder. A router table would be the tool of choice for smaller (non production) use, but I'm not sure how well it would work hogging out a mortise that's 1" wide. Since it's in cedar, it may be ok.
It sounds like you e cutting a rabbet like the Dutch did for threshing floor planks. A shaper would do that on small stuff. I did a bunch of them on bigger timbers. 3" deep and 4" wide by 43' 3" long.
I'm not sure how to put a drawing on here..... But what I'm hoping to make is Raised Garden Beds with 4x4 corners and 5/4x6 sides...I would like to 5/4 x6 to slide into the 4x4.... I hope that helps.... I did look at shapers last week.....
QuoteBut what I'm hoping to make is Raised Garden Beds with 4x4 corners and 5/4x6 sides...I would like to 5/4 x6 to slide into the 4x4.... I hope that helps...
Wish you would have said that in the first place. ;D
Well there..... ;D I operate a Cedar Mill .... I have just bought out most of the equipment from a Log Home manufacturer.... ie 4sided planer ,20" radial arm saw,16 " table saw,20" single sided planer ,16" jointer , and a vertical 8" band saw... Along with allot of miscellaneous carts ect.
I have been a sawmill for 20 years and want to expand into some finished products.... The raised beds being one of them...
I sell a huge amount of material for raised beds in the rough and think that if I can make a Kit I could sell even more... I've talked to several retailers around here and there is allot of interest in them .I want something that is simple to put together with no tools....and I suppose if there is another way to do this I would be open to ideas :P
Burt Hanna, a local business makes them for Sams Club out of recycled stuff. A little picture of his corners is here. He is running them with some big custom made machines.
http://www.samsclub.com/sams/expandable-kit-multi-connectors/prod11350646.ip?navAction=push
If you click on the magnifier you can see the detail and how it works.
I did something similar, but pinned my corners with a dowel. I used a regular floor model mortiser to make a through mortise.
I don't think you can run that big of dovetail on a shaper unless you clean it out first with a dado.
Quote from: beenthere on September 15, 2014, 09:39:56 PM
QuoteBut what I'm hoping to make is Raised Garden Beds with 4x4 corners and 5/4x6 sides...I would like to 5/4 x6 to slide into the 4x4.... I hope that helps...
Wish you would have said that in the first place. ;D
Ditto. Scratch everything that I recommended....
Sooooo I guess run a groove then do the Dovetail ???
Quote from: Dewey on September 17, 2014, 07:12:26 AM
Sooooo I guess run a groove then do the Dovetail ???
That's the only way I can see being able to run it at a production rate. Even at that you'll have to design some kind of dust collection to keep the dove tail clean as you go, or you'll wind up with a hot cutter in a short distance.
I like shapers, and it would probably be a lot less expensive to buy. But I think an over arm router would be a better choice for this project. Plus, it would be easier to design something to keep the saw dust out of the dove tail you're cutting.
Another thing to consider is that the router bit will be cutting on both sides of the dado cut, which will make one side a climbing cut. That means you'll have to slow the feed rate down quite a bit. But if you feed the 4x4's through end to end you will have a lot of product at the end of the day.
Either way you go (shaper, or over arm router) you're going to need a good power feeder for production. You can run the male part of the dove tail with the same router bit to insure that the bevels are the same degrees.
Good post redprospector.
Sounds like a $300 kit
Thanks Red.... This gives me a direction to head....
Depending on how large of production, you might like to look into a plunge router. They can hog out lots of volume. If you create a plywood jig, it could maintain support across such a wide groove and you can go across the 4x4 oneway on one side and the otherway on the other side so that you keep the direction of cut constant.
One question is, will it be only one board per side of bin? If more than one board, the section of dovetail socket on the post between the boards will be weak and tend to split off.
Jim,
I have to pick up and read your book again. It was entertaining and informative. I spend my life with vac kilns so I need to brush up on conventional drying. I wish more here had bought it with the opportunity to discuss it with you, the author.
Sorry I hijacked the thread.
Den
Seems like a lot of work to make a weak joint that people may not be happy with. How about just plowing a dado groove, then just drill the side board ends and posts to match? You could set it up so you could drive in dowels made of rot resistant, but strong wood like black locust or walnut. If you put 2 holes in each sideboard, you could set up a jig where you drill one hole at a drill press, then flip and do the other. Same distance from the edge, easy peasey. ;D
Dewy...another way to do it is to use 2x4s instead and cut 1/2 dovetails on a table saw. set up two saws at the correct depth and angle, one for the face cut and one for the edge cut. Make all your cuts on one and then the other join the 2xs together and you have your sliding dovetail. I have seen some made this way for leaf extension guides for old dining room tables. your stock needs to be dead on straight to ensure a uniform fit. I would run through shorter lengths. That is a strong joint when used in it's intended application (sliding), but not so much when subjected to lateral forces. on the other hand, the final corner piece would be pretty hefty and only needs to hold back a minimal amount of dirt. I would be more concerned about them being set up out of square and looking like crap. your dovetails will need to fit snug. you might even install guide block to the inside of the corners to prevent them being set up out-of-square. while you're at it, you could also add a stop at the bottom of each corner to make all the top edges flush with each other. it would also make it easier to just pick up a small bed and move it without disassembling it.
good luck.