Frustrated! What to do??

[Firewoodjoe]

Well I've sold firewood since I was 13 always made decent money. But the last few years has been dragging by. Last year i bought a processor to up production and save my back after logging 5 days a week. It's a nights and weekend gig I do and I don't see where I can do anything else with my given time. I want to log full time for myself but Saturday and driving to a job for a few hours week nights I can't see working. I'm selling more wood for a higher price then I ever have before and still only a few thousand a year in the bank. If I don't spend it through out the year on family and fun. Would I be better off selling my operation and buying a skidder? Selling my wheel loader and buying a forwarder or tracked loader I could use for both skidding and loading the processor or keep plugging away? I'm falling into that rut of not enjoying it anymore and I know that is bad

[lopet]

I assume everyone here has gone through times, when things not have worked out  and the money is not being made.
That's when you lose your motivation and ambition.   With not knowing your operation no reasonable advise can be given.
Do you log for someone else during the week ?

[Firewoodjoe]

Yes. Like this morning I'm up at 4:30 and heading to the woods and will get home about 5:30. I hope. Then will process wood till I don't want to. I understand everyone has bad times and I guess I'm just blowing steam. But I know there's money elsewhere to be made and that's what's frustrating. I'll get there just not this year anyways! Thanks for listening or reading rather

[Corley5]

There's not much in firewood alone  :(  But we keep $$$ in circulation  :-\

[Firewoodjoe]

And that's one thing I like about it. I always have cash. Yes it needs to go elsewhere but it makes a guy feel better incase of an emergency.

[Bert]

Its really hard to give advice not knowing your full situation. A wife and child can weigh heavily on your decisions to quit the norm and try something different. One very important question is weather you can get timber to cut. Having a skidder and loader is great, but they don't pay the bills, logs do. Im sure you have the knowledge and contacts, see if you can find some wood and take it from there. For 20k or less you can make a go of it if the wood is there, you know how to turn wrenches, and don't need weekends off. I'd hang onto the firewood business at least partially. Its not good to put all your eggs in one basket. Log for yourself and split some wood during downtimes or nights.

[Firewoodjoe]

That's the exact goal Bert. But I don't feel I would need the processor if I had more one to do it. That alone would almost buy a skidder. And the wife and daughter are a big factor anymore. Mostly time

[Bert]

Im in the logging and sawmill business both. I would like to add fire wood to our setup to get rid of the junk wood. If you already have the processor I'd hold onto it was all im saying. If its truly profitable, find someone to do it for you. You might not make as much, but you'd be making something and out doing what you like.

[lopet]

I agree with Bert, hang on to the processor, you don't wanna go back to the old way.   Buying a forwarder or tracked loader will increase your production and will make things easier, but doesn't mean your gonna have more $$ in the bank at the end of the year.       If it would be easy making a living in the the logging or firewood business, everyone would be doing it. 
Good luck

[timberlinetree]

I would think a firewood processed is a big investment to only use nights/weekends. Not having a skidder/forwarder must mean you need to buy wood and it has to be trucked to your yard. If you had a skidder/forwarder you could start cutting logs for $ and pull out fire wood to. We cut out the trucking(use to have a log yard) and process the firewood on the landing. It's alittle slower but cost about a third of a processer  and isn't that bad on the back and no trucking helped a lot. A low bank account is what we have lived with most of the time but keeps getting a little bigger as you get older and smarter. Hang in there and best of luck!

This is an old pic of a firewood job.

  

  

  

 

[lopet]

Do you have a Tree Farmer also ?

[Firewoodjoe]

Timberlinetree that's what I want to do but I would have to buy a skidder and quite my job. Can't happen like that right now. I'll keep plugging away for now

[Corley5]

  Never sell your firewood processor.  If nothing else you burn wood    I log and take my machine to the landing.  It's a good way to add value to hardwood pulp but the main $$$ are in the logging.  The value added to the pulp isn't that much when you factor in the extra fuel, labor, time, maintenance ect in the processing and delivering of the cordwood.  And time spent processing firewood is time away from producing timber.  I spent about two weeks putting all my time and hardwood pulp into firewood to get caught up on orders.  I don't like that.  It takes too many dollars and at the end of the week there aren't as many $$$ left in wallet as I'd like.  What I prefer to do is run the harvester for about 5 hours a day.  That production keeps the forwarder busy all day.  Then I run off five face cords of firewood and deliver it.  We sort out the pulp that has limbs and or is miscut to feed the firewood machine.  That's what works best for me with the equipment I've got.  If I had a higher production forwarder I wouldn't produce very much cordwood.  If any  ;)

[Firewoodjoe]

What about low impact logging. The over head and machine would be cheaper and no one here does it. Not even horses that I've heard. I just want my own thing. I've always been a go getter and I feel like im getting old lol 27 next month. I just feel if I don't make something work in the next ten years I'll be working for someone else for the rest of my life. And watch them make the money. I'm sure firewood is the ticket. Just need to get the wood cheaper. I drive over more wood with the skidder on one of my bosses jobs then I sell in a year. Sad

[Corley5]

  When I went back into the forest products industry this time firewood was going to be my primary product.  I started logging to supply myself with cheaper hardwood pulp for firewood.  Timber harvesting has since evolved into the main $$$ maker of my operation with the firewood end of the operation now a distant second.  That's how it's worked out for me. 
  I'd go with a 50hp 4wd tractor and a 3pt winch before I went with horses.  When the tractor is parked it doesn't need to be fed and watered ;D  Low impact means lower production and if you're producing pulp wood to keep a processor busy you need fairly good production.

[glassman_48]

firewoodjoe,
I have a good friend that had a tree cutting service, he worked like a dog, went through employees all the time (hard work) and never seemed to be able to get ahead.  I told him that he has no markup in a product, just labor.  I have to bill out $180 dollars an hour to keep my glass business going.  Overhead, employees, high workmens comp, vehicles, specialty tools etc.  If I didnt make a mark up on a windshield, or mirror, shower door etc. and I worked for labor alone, I wouldnt make it with my storefront and employees.  I purchased a firewood processor and have a long term goal to semi retire soon.  I am selling eco bricks (compressed firewood bricks) wood pellets, wood processing equipment etc.  I just purchased state highway frontage to build a house and eventually retire and have something to keep me busy after retirement.  In other words I made a plan and set a goal.  I hope you keep your processor for a couple of years and see how many ways you could make money with your machine.   good luck,,,,,ed

[Firewoodjoe]

Oh I'll never have another horse. I was just implying they aren't around. And I also agree with the logging developing more then firewood. But I already sell split wood so if I could haul 100" also that would be all my pulp except aspen. (I'd prefer not to cut pine.) And cut bolt wood of course. I dont want to focus on grade either because I feel the mills are running the stumpage on that anymore. I see Ron Scott posted a mill needing a producer. That would be nice but I'd still like to lean on the firewood. There are large producers around here that sell 5-8000 cords. Not counting 100"

[Puffergas]

If I had it to do over I'd buy timber land and slowly build my equipment or buy old stuff that could be fixed up. Most of the time land goes up and equipment value goes down at least in the long haul. You could take a few weeks off, with the family, and your trees would be at work growing. Some lots you might harvest and resell or subdivide a few lots from a larger track. Some sections could be planted into trees.

No better feeling than working your own land and watching it grow...


Cheers,
Jeff

[Cedarman]

Firewoodjoe,  I think I read that you could save money or spend money on family.  Have you had good discussions with family and expressed your thoughts to them?   If you can't make more money, are there ways to cut back expenses by changing what you spend money on? 
This is a good discussion to see which direction would be best to head into.

[Firewoodjoe]

Yes cedar man your right except the firewood is all extra. That dont pay bills. And that's what I want to change for the most part is the time invested in the firewood. I'm not going to do it if it doesn't help.

[timberlinetree]

We no longer have the c5 treefarmer. It was a great skidder except tires seemed small it tipped a lot but it put food on the table! Marcia was a city girl but that changed when I started bringing her to the woods on weekends. Now she loves skidders and doing firewood and she doesn't need a paycheck. Her helping has helped a lot.

[coxy]

We no longer have the c5 treefarmer. It was a great skidder except tires seemed small it tipped a lot but it put food on the table! Marcia was a city girl but that changed when I started bringing her to the woods on weekends. Now she loves skidders and doing firewood and she doesn't need a paycheck. Her helping has helped a lot.

your paying her more then you think  :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D when i first started doing firewood my wife now   would help i would cut and split and she would go dump it  and most of the el cheep os even gave her tips  its great to have your family work with you  :-\  ;D

[s grinder]

Firewoodjoe,Have you ever thought of starting a tree service company?Start off with a bucket truck/chipper box,chipper,if your trucks dumps could convert to a chipper box,don't know if you have anything to pick up the wood.You could hire out a grapple truck for big jobs or get a log loading trailer down the road and pull it with your wood truck.Don't know if their's a demand up there.My friend been doing it for 6yrs.They pay him to remove the wood by pricing it in the job[free firewood] bought a processor a couple of years ago keeps busy.He usually hires his nephew or somebody locall for cash to keep his overhead down[workmans comp]but is fully insured.I have a stump grinding business and do all his stump work.This guy is not a young guy he's my age,your a young man this is the time to make move if possible,talk to your family,tell them what your game plan is,good luck.

[Firewoodjoe]

Already a few around here. And I don't think i want that liability