Do hydraulic hoses rupture with age?

terrifictimbersllc · January 09, 2012, 08:10:26 PM

Had a hose rupture today, the one to the base of the in-out cylinder on the clamp (WM LT-40 super). Right where it goes into the frame. Not a sharp bend and there is a big soft grommet there. Don't think I caught it on anything but I cant rule out an edging having caught it. Nothing I noted. It was a 3/8 line and I replaced it with a 1/4 spare line I had on hand, plus 6 fittings totalling $30 from NAPA to adapt the 1/4 back to 3/8. Really ugly but it got me through the day.

My mill is 12 yrs old. Does one expect hydraulic lines to wear out just from age? Also has anyone had NAPA make up new lines? I will check tomorrow but I think they have the same brand of hose and it might only cost half as much as from WM.

POSTON WIDEHEAD · January 09, 2012, 08:15:24 PM

Hoses will defiantly wear out from age. Aren't you glad it didn't rupture on T.V.? :D

Al_Smith · January 09, 2012, 08:19:41 PM

I don't know about a sawmill but as a general statement what happens is the rubber coating gets attacked by the UV of the sun which will cause it to deterate thus exposing the wires underneath .This exposer will in time lead to a failure . In addition more often that not in areas which have sharper bends the failure rate is higher weather exposed to the sun or not .

As far as 12 years ,don't know.I have got hoses on tractors and bull dozers over 40 years old that seem to be working just fine but the hydraulic pressure is most likely lower .

Ironwood · January 09, 2012, 08:25:59 PM

I would shop around for hoses. If you can take the time to anticipate and have some on hand it will help you to not "fall" victim to the $$$ most places that make custom hoses charge (ALOT). I usually end up at my NAPA if time is of the essence, but OUCH it usually hurts. Find out if WM is mostly "JIC" or other style. then keep them handy. "Hardlines" are REALLY costly. I hate to even thiink about replacing them.

:-\

Ironwood

dgdrls · January 09, 2012, 08:27:03 PM

Yes the rubber breaks down from cyclical heating and cooling, and/or flexing. Rubber lines also fail internally and appear fine
on the outside but collapse internally when pressure is released, rubber brake lines on cars will do this and cause brakes to hang-up.
I watched a 300 series Komatsu puke about 35 gallons of hydraulic fluid when a
pressure line driving a mower head failed. Lots of mess to clean-up,

DGDrls

pineywoods · January 09, 2012, 08:36:00 PM

What causes most ruptures for me is RUST. The strength in a hydraulic hose is the steel braid. The outer layer is there just to protect the steel braid. That layer will crack and flake off, exposing the steel braid to the elements, which then rusts and ruptures. Sometimes I get in a bind and have to have a replacement hose made up locally, but most of my hoses come from surplus center. They stock mostly standard stuff, but do carry a huge selection of adapters and fittings...

terrifictimbersllc · January 09, 2012, 08:43:44 PM

Quote from: Ironwood on January 09, 2012, 08:25:59 PM
I would shop around for hoses. If you can take the time to anticipate and have some on hand it will help you to not "fall" victim to the $$$ most places that make custom hoses charge (ALOT). I usually end up at my NAPA if time is of the essence, but OUCH it usually hurts. Find out if WM is mostly "JIC" or other style. then keep them handy. "Hardlines" are REALLY costly. I hate to even thiink about replacing them. :-\

Ironwood

They are JIC. What's a hardline?

buildthisfixthat · January 09, 2012, 09:33:16 PM

some hydraulic hoses can last a lifetime ,depends on weather exposure and how much fitigue (flex) they are subjected to ......i use these reuseable hose fittings just cut the hose and screw the new end on ....i have also used 2 fittings to repair a long hose in the middle ......a great time saver and a pocket full of $$$

Bibbyman · January 09, 2012, 09:42:13 PM

The hoses on our 2002 WM still look good. But the mill has been under cover since new. Last Friday about 3:30, Mary went into a panic mode hollering and waving, "Shut it down!". The hose to the back support cylinder had blown a hole. Like you, I couldn't see what had damaged it.

My first instinct was to get a hold of a reusable butt splice fitting. With a reusable fitting, one can make field repairs. We called the local NAPA store and they had none. Time was running out. We called around and nobody had reusable fittings. One place suggested a large truck dealer in another town. They were already closed and wasn't open on Saturday.

So Saturday morning Mary and bit the bullet and pulled the old hose. I sent her to town to get the line butt spliced. Even thought it was a common hose size – 3/8" – they didn't have a butt splice but could come up with a combination of couplings to put the line back together.

It took us, in total until noon to get the hose out, repaired and put back in. When we pulled the hose, we attached a piece of hot fence wire and pulled it through the frame. When we reinstalled the hose, we applied dish soap for liberation. We had a couple of complications that were a result of disassembly and reassembly so we didn't get started sawing until 1:30.

I'm going to try to find a source for reusable fittings so I can make my own repairs and not have to disassemble and pull the hose. I see a number of them listed on E-bay, it'll just be a matter of getting the right size.

Buildthisfixthat,

Where did you come up with the reusable fittings?

I got this one from MacMaster Carr back in 2002.

customdave · January 09, 2012, 09:57:49 PM

I had a hose failure on the log loader with a hair under 100hrs on my mill right next to the crimp on end, had end sawed off & new end crimped on 8$, hose was long enough for this, while I was @ the hyd shop, had them make up a new hose 36$! I got busy & ordered the mates hose for the other side which was about 6" longer from WM 21$ shipped to me!!! I would definitly check withWM.... ;)

Dave

timbuck2 · January 09, 2012, 10:19:02 PM

One word on hoses, PARKER. worth the $

leroy in kansas · January 09, 2012, 10:28:44 PM

Just a thought. My sons and I had a const. co a few yrs back. We had a concrete pump truck which had miles of hydraulic hose. Our practice was to carry a hose as long as the longest one on the truck. When we broke, which does occure, we could unscrew the fitting by pass the routing and connect to the other end. Total down time never longer than half hr. This may be a practice that will help save time and get by.

buildthisfixthat · January 09, 2012, 10:36:40 PM

Quote from: buildthisfixthat on January 09, 2012, 09:33:16 PM
some hydraulic hoses can last a lifetime ,depends on weather exposure and how much fitigue (flex) they are subjected to ......i use these reuseable hose fittings just cut the hose and screw the new end on ....i have also used 2 fittings to repair a long hose in the middle ......a great time saver and a pocket full of $$$

Quote from: Bibbyman on January 09, 2012, 09:42:13 PM
The hoses on our 2002 WM still look good. But the mill has been under cover since new. Last Friday about 3:30, Mary went into a panic mode hollering and waving, "Shut it down!". The hose to the back support cylinder had blown a hole. Like you, I couldn't see what had damaged it.

My first instinct was to get a hold of a reusable butt splice fitting. With a reusable fitting, one can make field repairs. We called the local NAPA store and they had none. Time was running out. We called around and nobody had reusable fittings. One place suggested a large truck dealer in another town. They were already closed and wasn't open on Saturday.

So Saturday morning Mary and bit the bullet and pulled the old hose. I sent her to town to get the line butt spliced. Even thought it was a common hose size – 3/8" – they didn't have a butt splice but could come up with a combination of couplings to put the line back together.

It took us, in total until noon to get the hose out, repaired and put back in. When we pulled the hose, we attached a piece of hot fence wire and pulled it through the frame. When we reinstalled the hose, we applied dish soap for liberation. We had a couple of complications that were a result of disassembly and reassembly so we didn't get started sawing until 1:30.

I'm going to try to find a source for reusable fittings so I can make my own repairs and not have to disassemble and pull the hose. I see a number of them listed on E-bay, it'll just be a matter of getting the right size.

Buildthisfixthat,

Where did you come up with the reusable fittings?

I got this one from MacMaster Carr back in 2002.

i found my fittings on e bay from a surplus company also bought some hoses with reuseable fittingings on them good supplies to have on hand no place around here sells them

Paper Maker · January 09, 2012, 11:25:53 PM

My dad has always dealt with hydraulics in his line of work as a diesel mechanic. He still has his old Gates crimper from when he was in business. In his opinion Gates and Weatherhead are the best fittings and hoses on the market but thats just one mans opinion.
When I first bought my mill I had to replace several hydraulic lines due to the suns UV damage. The rubber had crack letting water get in and rusted the wire causing them to burst. I checked around and O'Reilly's had the best price and they carry Gates brand. Just somewhere else you may wont to check. Marcus

Magicman · January 10, 2012, 07:49:34 AM

I have had a hose to rupture on my '98 model WM, and as Pineywoods mentioned, it was rusted. I know that I should pull and replace all of the hoses, but I just keep putting it off. :-\

I wrapped my hoses with a protective sheathing to protect them from chafing.

Norm · January 10, 2012, 08:00:40 AM

I'll 2nd the parker hyd hoses. Whenever I have a stock one break I take it to my local repair shop and they make one up for me. I've yet to have one of theirs go bad. You may save some money on others but in the long run you don't.

Al_Smith · January 10, 2012, 08:27:39 AM

Parker is indeed an industrial standard and has been around a long time ,good product .Here of late in appears the more modern stuff has gone to Rexroth which appears at least at first glance to be rather robust also .

As far as fittings they can come from any number of sources and in just about any type one could imagine .It's mind boggling the combinations made as to flexibility or adaptability from say one size to another or from SAE sizes to metric .

Myself being a junk collecter have 5 gallon buckets full of fittings but as luck would have it most times don't have exactly the correct ones .Some times though I get lucky rumanging though a big pile tossed on the floor .

ely · January 10, 2012, 09:10:28 AM

i wish i had a picture of my woodsplitter hoses... most folks wont help me split wood. they get one look at the rusted what used to be hoses on there and back way up.... i think the outer covering of rubber came off a few years back.

Gary_C · January 10, 2012, 09:21:15 AM

The hydraulic hose and fitting business has gone thru a big consolidation like any other industries. There are just three major hose companies left and I suspect most of the remaining companies are buying their fittings from one source in China. The three majors remaining are Parker, Aeroquip, and Gates. Between those three, they have swallowed up Weatherhead and most other big names.

Some years ago I know some other major rubber companies like Goodyear were trying to get back into the hydraulic hose business but don't know if they were sucessful. Probably not as there are some discount hose manufacturers particularly in Europe that are also present in the market.

Much of the hydraulic stuff on this European made forestry equipment like Ponsse and Valmet is Parker made but I am not familiar with who Timberjack uses. But their dealers in the US buy from most anyone and right now Ponsse is supplying Gates hose and I think John Deere is also Gates. Some time ago Ponsse hose was coming from Italy.

Right now, I have been looking at buying quantities of hose and fittings and looking at an online supplier that has very good pricing. It's DiscountHosedotcom and anyone can order from them. They say their hose is made in the US but I've never heard of the manufacturer so I suspect not. The local suppliers of Gates and Parker are about twice the price and refuse to discount for quantities.

I too use a lot of reusable fittings, but beware of using them on old hydraulic hose that the outer cover is weathered and dryed out. I've had some blow off on old hose. But those reusables are hard to find. Most local suppliers refuse to sell them and say they are no good. But that's BS.

barbender · January 10, 2012, 10:27:20 AM

Listen to Gary C's advice, he'll blow more hydraulic lines in a week with the cut to length equipment than a WM hydraulic mill will in a lifetime. ;D

barbender · January 10, 2012, 10:30:12 AM

BTW, my experience is where the hose flexes is where it fails, especially if it is a tight bend.

pinehillstacker · January 10, 2012, 01:21:45 PM

Gary_C, Goodyear did get back into hydraulic hose. My dad's hydraulics business is a distributor of Goodyear hose. They make a quality product; he used to use NRP Jones, but he liked the Goodyear quality better, plus they're made in the USA, so he switched to them. Also, like MagicMan said, the hose protectors work very well, are cheap, and come in all sizes. We use them on all our equipment on the farm. As far as around here in SW PA goes, you can get a good deal on hydraulic hoses if you take it to the right shop. Some of them have the "I got it, and you need it" attitude, and that is where you will get into big $$$. My dad's business can normally make a hose for somebody at half his competitors' prices, and still turn a profit.

Brucer · January 10, 2012, 06:08:01 PM

I had the same hose fail on my mill when it was only a year old. Turns out the fitting on the cylinder was at a bad angle and the hose kinked every time the clamp was fully retracted.

I had another hose fail inside the frame tube!. Couldn't figure out why I was losing fluid until it started running out one of the holes in the side. I found the cause when I opened up the hydraulic box and found a pack rat next made out of the reinforcing fiber from the hose >:(.

The mill was stored at my house that winter and I had left my tool box under the hydraulic box. That gave the rat a nice platform to hop up into the hole that the second pump would sit over, if I had a second pump.

petefrom bearswamp · January 10, 2012, 06:26:28 PM

The only hose I have had fail is on my 2008 WM lt40shdd51 where it rubbed on a fitting.
WM replaced it but lost a little time which is not important to a retired slow sawyer.
My wood splitter which I built in 1979 with NAPA built hoses is still intact.

Paper Maker · January 10, 2012, 06:32:36 PM

Quote from: ely on January 10, 2012, 09:10:28 AM
i wish i had a picture of my woodsplitter hoses... most folks wont help me split wood. they get one look at the rusted what used to be hoses on there and back way up.... i think the outer covering of rubber came off a few years back.

I bet your wood splitter hoses aren't as bad as mine.