iDRY Vacuum Kilns

Sponsors:

Saw head travel power

Started by Ljohnsaw, March 14, 2018, 09:44:06 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Ljohnsaw

I see lots of powered saw heads using a very long length of chain to pull the saw head through the log.  My saw head is pretty heavy and I'm wondering if anyone has tried to just power the wheels on the saw head.  I'm thinking if all 4 wheels are powered, it should go, right?  That way I can use my saw head on any length of bed I set up without having to lengthen or shorten the normally required chains.  Some have used cable or ropes but the same thinking applies.

If the wheels were to slip, I'm thinking the blade needs changing!

Thoughts?
John Sawicky

Just North-East of Sacramento...

SkyTrak 9038, Ford 545D FEL, Davis Little Monster backhoe, Case 16+4 Trencher, Home Built 42" capacity/36" cut Bandmill up to 54' long - using it all to build a timber frame cabin.

Tin Horse

My enercraft 30 is heavy ( Kubota diesel). On the left side on the frame runs a spring tensioned 1/4" cable. At the base of the head a hydraulic motor. One loop on the motor hub. I know some drive on chains on both sides for stability but what happens if you hit something? Even if it hits a piece of bark on the track stops it. While learning it saved me many times. I can adjust the speed and it works great, but will slip on the hub if something isn't right. Simple system.
Hope this helps.
Bell 1000 Wood Processor. Enercraft 30HTL, Case 580SL. Kioti 7320.

POSTON WIDEHEAD

What powers the wheels to make them roll?
Just wheels on a rail I would think would not work. They would need some kind of traction.
The traction on my band mill is a motor turning a gear on a chain. The head travels down the chain. The chain does not pull the head.
The older I get I wish my body could Re-Gen.

Southside

I don't think that would work.  In a test scenario it will probably work, but put a log on the deck, some sawdust, bark, moisture, lubrication, etc - ie real world working conditions - and you are going to have just about zero tractive effort on the part of your drive wheels.  Post hole :D described the way the WM chain system works and it is very low maintenance and works very well.  
Franklin buncher and skidder
JD Processor
Woodmizer LT Super 70 and LT35 sawmill, KD250 kiln, BMS 250 sharpener and setter
Riehl Edger
Woodmaster 725 and 4000 planner and moulder
Enough cows to ensure there is no spare time.
White Oak Meadows

starmac

If you think about it, you have metal in metal, there is no give to either side, so you only have barely a fraction of an inch contact, there is near zero traction. Even a train only has something like 1/8 of an inch contact, that is why there is very little rolling resistance and a pickup can easily pull a loaded train car.
Old LT40HD, old log truck, old MM forklift, and several huskies.

Ljohnsaw

Well, what got me thinking about it is that a train is steel on steel and has hundreds of thousands of pounds of pull.  Also, there were a few times I tried to turn one of my wheels and couldn't get it to rotate there was so much friction on the track.  I was just hoping that someone has done it but hasn't shared yet :-\
John Sawicky

Just North-East of Sacramento...

SkyTrak 9038, Ford 545D FEL, Davis Little Monster backhoe, Case 16+4 Trencher, Home Built 42" capacity/36" cut Bandmill up to 54' long - using it all to build a timber frame cabin.

starmac

Them trains usually have several engines and a whole bunch of weight on them, and it barely takes any grease on a slight incline to stop one moving at full speed too.
Old LT40HD, old log truck, old MM forklift, and several huskies.

Kbeitz

Give it a try... If it slips a little give it a push...
Collector and builder of many things.
Love machine shop work
and Wood work shop work
And now a saw mill work

kelLOGg

How would you power all 4 wheels to get identical rpms? Separate motors? One motor with gearing sounds like a lot of effort. My 2 chain drive operates at 1/3 HP (24VDC at 10 amps) and can be readily stopped by a blockage w/o blowing a 20AMP slo-blo fuse yet still cut 25" wide oak. Granted, it took a lot of chain ~100 ft for a 20' mill. Keep us posted on your progress.
Bob
Cook's MP-32, 20HP, 20' (modified w/ power feed, up/down, loader/turner)
DH kiln, CatClaw setter and sharpener, tandem trailer, log arch, tractor, thumb tacks

bandmiller2

John, it will work. I would drive only one axle, the one with the most weight. Use "Vee" wheels riding on inverted Vee angle iron. Have a seat over the axle and ride it like a piece of track maintenance equipment. It takes very little force to feed a carriage if everything is right. In fact you want the carriage to stop if something isn't right. Frank C.
A man armed with common sense is packing a big piece

Macgyver

Hey Guys,
Thought I'd chime in on the friction/traction note.  The equation for friction is Friction=u*N . u is the coefficient of Friction for the materials in contact, or how "sticky" they are to each other.  N is the contact force between the two objects, or in the case of the sawmill, how heavy it is.  The amount of surface area in contact doesn't have anything to do with the friction, or how well the wheels would grip.

In short - if you find you need more traction, either get "stickier" materials, or fatten up that mill with some steel weights.  I do like the idea that the wheels would slip if the band is getting dull though.  I'm guilty of running bands too long and ruining some lumber that could have been really beautiful.

Good luck!
Smile! It confuses people

shenandoahsawmill

My Povlsen mill has two driven wheels on the engine side of the carriage. Both wheels run on a round rod. One wheel is driven by a hydraulic motor and that wheel is coupled to another identical wheel by a loop of chain. It is basically a two wheel drive system that needs to be a four wheel drive system. I am not able to saw in the rain or snow as both wheels just spin. My carriage weighs about 4000 lbs. I am thinking about switching to vee rails and wheels for more surface area or switching over to the chain system. The slipping wheels do help if the saw jambs in a log.

Ljohnsaw

I am running on the top edge of 1/4" angle, not the inverted V.  My wheels are about 4" diameter that I cut a slightly rounded profile groove.  I could modify that but like the idea of just adding weight, though it is pretty heavy right now - 300 lbs or so.  My thinking was a pair of wheelchair motors (on a single speed control?).  Each wheel would have a sprocket so each side would have a pair of motors running at the same speed.  Alternatively, I could have an overhead "axle" to drive both side from one (or paired up) motors to make sure both sides are identically sped.
John Sawicky

Just North-East of Sacramento...

SkyTrak 9038, Ford 545D FEL, Davis Little Monster backhoe, Case 16+4 Trencher, Home Built 42" capacity/36" cut Bandmill up to 54' long - using it all to build a timber frame cabin.

kelLOGg

Quote from: ljohnsaw on March 15, 2018, 09:44:01 AMAlternatively, I could have an overhead "axle" to drive both side from one (or paired up) motors to make sure both sides are identically sped.
That's the way I would do it.
Cook's MP-32, 20HP, 20' (modified w/ power feed, up/down, loader/turner)
DH kiln, CatClaw setter and sharpener, tandem trailer, log arch, tractor, thumb tacks

Kbeitz

I'm thinking one axle for both would be best. Might be hard to get two motors running the same speed. Wheelchair motors is a very good choice. You can stall them out with no harm. They are made for that.  It's what I use on my mill. If you hit something and it stops it does nothing to the motor. It doesn't even get warm. The wheelchair motors is also very easy on batteries. You could make or buy a 115v to 24v DC converter to use if you don't want batteries.
Collector and builder of many things.
Love machine shop work
and Wood work shop work
And now a saw mill work

york

Albert

Kbeitz

Another thought... Mount a small air drive tire behind you V-wheels.
Collector and builder of many things.
Love machine shop work
and Wood work shop work
And now a saw mill work

Ljohnsaw

Quote from: Kbeitz on March 15, 2018, 10:55:35 AMYou could make or buy a 115v to 24v DC converter to use if you don't want batteries.

I'm not portable but I also don't have power.  I was planning on running the motors off the starting battery on my 18hp B&S lawn tractor engine.  Right now it is just a small garden battery but I could up it to a standard battery if it doesn't seem to last.  I could also add a single wire car alternator since I have a spare pulley available on the back side of this engine.
John Sawicky

Just North-East of Sacramento...

SkyTrak 9038, Ford 545D FEL, Davis Little Monster backhoe, Case 16+4 Trencher, Home Built 42" capacity/36" cut Bandmill up to 54' long - using it all to build a timber frame cabin.

Kbeitz

My two wheelchair motors has run on only the alternator when I forgot to turn on my master switch. I could not tell the difference. 
Collector and builder of many things.
Love machine shop work
and Wood work shop work
And now a saw mill work

Thank You Sponsors!