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has anyone here ever built a straw bale building?

Started by Modat22, November 17, 2005, 01:15:03 PM

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Modat22

Sorry I know I'm way off topic with straw and all but I have to ask.

My little 12 x 16 wood shop is way too small, I'm hoping to build somewhere around a 25 x 30 shop next and I've been thinking about going the straw bale route.

I just wanted to get some input from a person that has built one and hear if they'd do it again or have recommendations I should follow.
remember man that thy are dust.

Radar67

I haven't built with straw bales, but have done some reading and research. You might find the following link interesting.

LONG LINK

There are several more articles about this building style on the site.

Stew
"A man's time is the most valuable gift he can give another." TOM

If he can cling to his Blackberry, I can cling to my guns... Me

This will kill you, that will kill you, heck...life will kill you, but you got to live it!

"The man who can comprehend the why, can create the how." SFC J

IndyIan

http://www.strawhomes.ca/book.asp

Here is a link to an excellent book on the subject.  I've helped my friends build their strawbale house and they had the folks above do the plastering.  From everyone I've talked too, the conclusion is that strawbale isn't much cheaper than regular construction if you have to pay someone to do the plastering.  It is way more efficient though, my friends heated their 1800 sqft strawbale house with 2 1500 watt heaters(about 10000btu) in 0 degree F weather for a couple weeks until their masonary stove was finished 8)

I've been in another workshop for timber framing that had exposed strawbales on the inside with sheet metal on the outside, also a sand/sawdust floor.  It was very warm, quiet, and I didn't get sore feet or legs even after being on them for the whole day...  I'm sure it was very cheap to put up.
Ian

Lud

If you didn't seal them good with plaster, just imagine the bug risk- let alone the fire risk!

But.......maybe......sealed individually in barrel liner plastic bags,  metal siding outside and drywall, plastered inside might work????  Stick with small square bales, right? ???
Simplicity mill, Ford 1957 Golden Jubilee 841 Powermaster, 40x60 bankbarn, left-handed

Modat22

From what I've read so far to get the keep it fire retardant and pest resistant you have to coat it both inside and out with something. Concrete or stucco or mud?

I think I could build something like that, a wall would go up pretty quick, coating the straw is another story.
remember man that thy are dust.

Grawulf

And I'll huff and I'll pufffff and I'll BBBBLLLLLOWWWW your shop down........Sorry.........I couldn't resist   ::)  :D

beenthere

Just the 'thought' of a straw bale anywhere makes my ol 'hay fever' rise up and make me wanna sneeze --- Ahhhhhhhhh Choooooo!  Sorry about that.  :) 
Can imagine it would be somewhat cheap, and maybe a good insulator. Any thoughts on the R rating? 
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

Modat22

Quote from: beenthere on November 17, 2005, 04:48:51 PM
Just the 'thought' of a straw bale anywhere makes my ol 'hay fever' rise up and make me wanna sneeze --- Ahhhhhhhhh Choooooo!  Sorry about that.  :) 
Can imagine it would be somewhat cheap, and maybe a good insulator. Any thoughts on the R rating? 

Most say an r value of 28, depending on how the inside wall is attached to the bales

link to study, http://www.buildinggreen.com/auth/article.cfm?fileName=070902b.xml
remember man that thy are dust.

JimBuis

Modat,

I bought a couple of books on the subject and have read most everything I can get my hands on.  The main problem with it is that most people are ill informed on the topic including the building inspectors.  For example, strawbales that have baled with any degree of compaction are relatively fire resistent.  That is right RELATIVELY fire resistent.  Hold a torch against a 2X4 for several minutes and you'll have a good little fire going.  Hold a torch against a straw bale for the same amount of time and after you shut off the torch you'll have a smoldering smoking bale but no flame.  Even the smoldering will stop shortly thereafter.  The bale does not have enough air in it to sustain combustion to any degree.

Insects?  The reason the bugs are in the bale is primarily because they were in the straw when it was baled.  Given a bit of time they will leave the bale if they can.  If you walk around in the loft of your average barn, you don't normally see many insects in straw bales as they have all gone somewhere that offers them more nutrition.  I am talking about straw bales here NOT hay.  Once you have built a strawbale wall and stuccoed it, you won't have any bug problems with it.

Everything you can name as a problem for strawbales is also a problem for a stick house except straw bales provide inherent insulation.  Build a stick house without any siding or shingles to protect it and you'll have the same problems everyone says you'd have with straw.

Why do we build stick houses anyway?  Our society has been built upon a stick foundation, that's why.  Think about it.  What would become of Home Depot, Lowe's, lumber yards, and most of our construction companies if we suddenly changed over to OWNER BUILT strawbale construction.  Our economy would be dealt a major blow like you haven't seen since the great depression.  Therefore, it will never happen.

Most people will give into the "huff and puff" comedic comments about straw bale construction and build with sticks instead.  Wood is a wonderful thing.  God knew what he was doing.  I make my living teaching kids how to make stuff from wood.  However, God made straw too.  Straw actually has many things in common with wood.  Numerous long fibers, renewable resource, easy to work with, etc.  Straw does have some things as good selling points.  Straw grows a lot faster, can be grown cheaply on your own land in sufficient quantity to build with, offers good insulation value at no additional cost, and requires almost no special tools to work with.

All of the above information is offered at no additional charge and with no hidden fees.  ;D ;D ;D  Of course, it is also offered ENTIRELY in my as always humble opinion!! :) ;) :) ;)
Jim Buis                             Peterson 10" WPF swingmill

PawNature

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Paschale

Hey Jim,

Thanks for taking the time to make that post.  I'd learned some stuff...   :P
Y'all can pronounce it "puh-SKOLLY"

SwampDonkey

"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

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Furby

Well my 2x4 walls have a R value of 23, I can live with that difference compared to the space lost with straw bales.
Now what about settling?

Radar67

Quote from: Furby on November 17, 2005, 07:13:20 PM
Well my 2x4 walls have a R value of 23,

Furby,
     What kind of insulation are you using? Most 2x4 walls only have an R value of 13 (fiberglass insulation 3 1/2 inches thick plus insulation board and sheetrock). 2x6 walls are standard R19 with 6 inch insulation. At least that's what we have down south.

Stew
"A man's time is the most valuable gift he can give another." TOM

If he can cling to his Blackberry, I can cling to my guns... Me

This will kill you, that will kill you, heck...life will kill you, but you got to live it!

"The man who can comprehend the why, can create the how." SFC J

Furby

 ;D
I have R-13 batting with 2" of foam as sheathing at a R-10, total is R-23 plus drywall if you wish. ;)
Not only does it hold the temps, but it is QUIET in here, very little outside noise.
The front of the house is only getting 1" of foam though, but already has 1x sheathing.

Radar67

Quote from: Furby on November 17, 2005, 08:16:10 PM
;D
I have R-13 batting with 2" of foam as sheathing at a R-10,

Are you using the blue colored foam? I've been looking for ways to increase my R value, the normal house down here only gets 1 inch foam board. I've always liked the black asphalt sheathing, but it is getting very hard to find in any quantity. It's only used for expansion joints in concrete now.

Stew
"A man's time is the most valuable gift he can give another." TOM

If he can cling to his Blackberry, I can cling to my guns... Me

This will kill you, that will kill you, heck...life will kill you, but you got to live it!

"The man who can comprehend the why, can create the how." SFC J

Furby

Well mine is pink foam, but it's pretty much the same stuff.
Lots of places don't carry the blue anymore.
Yes, 3/4" or 1" would be standard here.
I did the math and was hoping that it would be worth the $ to try 2". I paid about $15 or a few coins more per sheet, far as I can see, it was. Either way it was cheaper then 2x6 walls and I didn't use up a couple of inches of floor space.
Actually, at the time last year, it was about on par in price as OSB (hurricanes). Only had a little extra cost for the T wind brace and longer nails for siding and such.
There is a pile of that celotex over at my Grandma's place. Was told I could use it on the addition, but have never liked the stuff myself, so there it sits. Got a small project I "might" use it on, but don't know yet.

Modat22

Aye Jim thankyou for that post, I'm going into book buying mode now. I think I forsee a strawbale woodshop next year
remember man that thy are dust.

Radar67

Furby,
    I have been looking into the spray on expandable foam for the house I plan to build in the future (a 50 foot diameter geodesic dome).

I don't like OSB, I would rather spend my money on plywood, it lasts much longer in the humid conditions we have down here.

Celotex used to be the standard down here (foil backed). It was a pain to work with, especially when you got in a hurry and sliced your hand open on the foil.  :D

Stew
"A man's time is the most valuable gift he can give another." TOM

If he can cling to his Blackberry, I can cling to my guns... Me

This will kill you, that will kill you, heck...life will kill you, but you got to live it!

"The man who can comprehend the why, can create the how." SFC J

Furby

We know celotex as the black coated fiber board. It was the standard around here for a while.
I really hate the foil backed foam, it holds too much moisture and degrades.
I like the idea of the spray on foam, and would have tried that if I could have afforded it. I've never actually worked with it and would like to experiment with it sometime.


As far as OSB vs. plywood........... I can't justify the $ for plywood when OSB does the trick here.
If I had your humid conditions, then I might see things differently.

Radar67

What I'm calling Celotex used to be a soft white foam board with a foil back. The asphalt board was also produced by Celotex, but we called it black board.

The spray on foam is expensive, but you are suppose to be able to recoup your costs in energy savings with in the first 4 - 5 years. It seals all cracks and voids which allow cold or warm air to enter the living space. It is also moisture resistant. The only downfall is, you have to pay close attention to air exchange within the house. It drastically reduces the amount from like 50% to 15% an hour. An addition of an air exchange unit usually eliminates the concern and makes the space healthier.

Stew
"A man's time is the most valuable gift he can give another." TOM

If he can cling to his Blackberry, I can cling to my guns... Me

This will kill you, that will kill you, heck...life will kill you, but you got to live it!

"The man who can comprehend the why, can create the how." SFC J

Modat22

that spray foam is really nice stuff, in some states its not code complient though.
remember man that thy are dust.

Furby

Quote from: Radar67 on November 17, 2005, 09:20:18 PM
The spray on foam is expensive, but you are suppose to be able to recoup your costs in energy savings with in the first 4 - 5 years. It seals all cracks and voids which allow cold or warm air to enter the living space. It is also moisture resistant. The only downfall is, you have to pay close attention to air exchange within the house. It drastically reduces the amount from like 50% to 15% an hour. An addition of an air exchange unit usually eliminates the concern and makes the space healthier.

Yup to all that, based on what I have read. ;)
One thing I can see as a draw back with it though, the ease of fishing wires later in the game.
I make a lot of changes afterwards and think it would take more effort to make a change in the wiring or something.
But yes, it sounds good.
I used the sprayed on, blown in insulation in my Grandparents addition. It did the same thing and was easy to work with, just to let it dry before hanging the wall board. I do wonder if it has settled any, but wa have not opened up a wall yet and don't have any plans to. ;)
They say it don't, but...............

The foil faced stuff I was talking about was the yellow/orange "foam" board, don't recall the white stuff.

Radar67

Quote from: Modat22 on November 17, 2005, 09:21:14 PM
that spray foam is really nice stuff, in some states its not code complient though.

I'm not sure about all states, but in most states the code can be challenged. If you can prove the product is better than what code requires, you can use it. Here, if you have an engineer sign off on your plan, the inspectors have a hard time turning it down. I've been told I will have a hard time getting a dome home approved here because it is so different from standard box framing, never mind it's about 10 times stronger (rated at 250 MPH winds). The engineer stamp on the plans put a halt to the inspectors denial. Sometimes you have to fight for what you want in the building industry. Not to say you will win....everytime, but it is possible. ;D

Furby, I plan to run all my wiring in the interior walls when I build the dome. I could see how that could be a problem, maybe use conduit in the initial build?

Stew
"A man's time is the most valuable gift he can give another." TOM

If he can cling to his Blackberry, I can cling to my guns... Me

This will kill you, that will kill you, heck...life will kill you, but you got to live it!

"The man who can comprehend the why, can create the how." SFC J

Furby

I placed some "conduit" in the addition, even though I used batts.
I had some scrap black plastic water line and I figured the few minutes drilling a few holes and placing the pipe would be worth it.
I didn't need to run any phone lines or cable before I hung the drywall. ;) Just took a plastic electrical box and drilled a hole in it for the pipe to slip in. Can access everything from the basement and have one running to the attic for a sound system later on. ;)

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