1st business

[Carpenter]

   I got a call from a potential customer a few days ago wanting a large amount of cedar 2x6's.  What he wants is 3000 bdft, approximately every 2 months.  At first it seemed like a lot, but after I got off the phone with him and calmed down I ran the numbers and I really think we could fill that order if we had the logs at the mill on time.  I really think for our 2 man crew it would be 2-4 days milling every 2 months once we get reasonably efficient. 
     As many of you know I also run a construction business and lately I have been getting quite a backlog, that is also the same 2 man crew at the moment.  I really don't have an opening right now untill the middle of December, but he wanted to know what we could have cut to pick up in the next two weeks.  I explained my situation, that we were a new mill and that I was also very buisy at the moment, but also I didn't want to pass this up so I told him I'd see what I could do and call him back.  I haven't called him back yet, but we've been cutting cedar trees after work, and I am trying to buy a forklift.  I just don't think this would be practical with the tractor support equipment I have now, and besides I could really use one for the construction business as well.  I have cut some cedar, it turned out very nice and as a carpenter I pretty well know what to look for in an end product.  So, I am excited and nervous at the same time.  I have no idea how he found out about us, forgot to ask, but I do know that he had been doing business with a local mill that has scaled back recently. 
      I am very good at cash flows and mapped this out just to see if it was worth doing, and I think it is.  Even if this is our only sawmill business it still will pay for the forklift and labor and other overhead within a year.  And that was with interest on the forklift.  Also, it gives my sawmill partner something to do for the two days every other week that I work for the salebarn.  He can do some logging on those days, we'll buy the other logs we need and of course he will get paid for the logs he brings in the same as anybody else.  We'll both mill the logs, pay ourselves a decent competitive wage based on production and put the rest towards the sawmill business and support equipment.  If we can sell just 1000 bft of cedar (other than the contract) every other month, within a year I think this will pay for both a solar kiln and a planer which will add value to the wood and open up new markets. 
     I like building stuff too much to sell all of the wood, Ideally I would like to run a timberframe, cabin, cabinet and woodworking shop, with the mill at the heart of the operation.  But, it would be great to see the mill pay for itself too.  I am not opposed to hiring someone else to help run the mill if orders warrant it either.  So, if any of you know a self motivated individual who likes to be part of a team, and would like to live in northern Nebraska close to the scenic Niobrara river, to help run a sawmill, and get in on the ground floor of a timberframe, log business.  Let me know, I am basically on the ground floor myself, but have a lot of irons in the fire. 
     A lot of irons in the fire pretty well sums this post up.  I love what I do, don't get me wrong, but it seems like a constant juggling act running a construction business, a small cattle operation, working for the salebarn part time, and now a sawmill as well.  I am excited.  It probably doesn't sound like it in the post, but I am.   If anybody has any usefull input or suggestions, I would be glad to hear them.  I'm sure many of you started out in a similar situation. 

[weisyboy]

just be carefull. no contracts, work on supplying it if you can.

to many little things can go wrong and stop you from being able to supply the order.

i have been stuck with a contact i couldn't fill before. believe me its not worth the stress.

make sure what you are getting for the timber is at least average for the market.

[Chuck White]

Sounds like a good deal as long as you can get the logs.

Do the contract, but look it over and make sure you don't "shoot yourself in the foot", add in a statement where if you have a major breakdown that you won't be held to something beyond your control.

[Meadows Miller]

Gday

Carpenter I started out the way you going atm with my farhter backin 94/95  Mate and have just got back into building again pretty much full time as my parents have spent about $125k on a log building line that will do upto 30 2000sqft log shells a year so im helping them get that running atm which is pretty much fulltime  ;) ;D 8) and im on wages sort off   ;) :D ;D along with doing post and beam frame atm we have two logs kits  to do before the end of the year along with me trying to do about 80000bft of sawn timber too within the next 4 months its a juggle but not impossible Mate  ;)  ;D 8)

With your mill once you get use to it and get it uned well with afew extras like a log deck and outfeed rollers it will most likely only take you a couple of days to do the milling part of it if the maths working out for you that your making money out of it id say have a crack at it Mate

Contracts you just have to put in a clause that if your unable to supply for whatever reasons that you will give him a 2 to 4 week notice or something along those lines mate  ;)

Regards Chris

[Cedarman]

You will need 125   9" logs,more if you use some 8's, less if you have a lot of 10" logs.  You will get some side lumber, but it will have the sap and ingrown bark on one face.
How much bark or wane is allowed?  .   How much sapwood is allowed?   How much ingrown bark is allowed?  What about doughty spots?   I would want to know what the 2x6 will be used for.  This helps to know how good they need to be.  What lengths must they be?  Will they take shorts?
All this and more is part of the conversation I have with customers to make sure we go in knowing what is needed.
Can you tell us the price?  I understand if you wouldn't want to divulge that.

[Bibbyman]

Another couple of questions I'd ask...

1)  How thick and wide?  i.e..  full 2" x full 6" or 1-1/2" x 5-1/2".  This will effect yield.
2) Specifc length?  If you have to have them all say 8', then you'll have a lot more lumber that won't make it.  Or you'll have to cut back lumber from longer logs.
3) Will he expect it end trimmed to length and squared off?
4) How will it be bundled and shipped?  Will he arrange the trucking and pay for it? Or will this be your job and expense?
5) How long after delivery will you have to wait to get paid?  Or will you expect him to pay something up front?

[jim king]

Bibbyman:

I am always impressd with your common sense.

[Carpenter]

     He said sapwood is just fine, and I saw a picture of one of his lumber piles on the internet.  They are full dimention 2x6 s.  8s 10s and 12 footers, he said 20% 8 footers was typical.  We haven't negociated a price yet, some of that depends on the quantity that we are able to produce but it will be in the $1.10/bft range.  He will arrange and pay for shipping, I think we will help load though that was not discussed, I budgeted some time in for it anyway.  I'm not sure how the lumber is to be packaged yet.  I was figuring pretty close to your 125 9" diameter logs cedarman.  Some wane and some bark is acceptable as long as the board is solid.  They will be used manely for sill plates in barns as opposed to pressure treated wood.  Most of the trees that I have been cutting are 16" to 18" at the butt, I usually get a 10 to12' log that is still over 10" small end and another 8 to 12' log that is over 8" diameter, and a fence post.    The only thing that gets wasted on most of these trees is the branches, and I think if I had a chipper I wouldn't waste them.  Of course, I wasn't counting on 100% recovery in 2x6s from these logs.  I think we will need about 10% extra to fill the order, and the rest may be 4/4 or 5/4 or something of that nature, that we will be able to use or sell elsewhere.  We won't get rich doing this, but, I think it could be worth doing.
     Thanks for the input and support.

[Okrafarmer]

Bibbyman:I am always impressd with your common sense.

He definitely has it, and I'm sure much of it has been from the long road of experience. I hope I can get some of that experience myself. It's always best to learn from those who have been doing it successfully and can see the big picture, while also teaching yourself.

[Cedarman]

We charge more for lengths longer than 8'.  You will have more work and waste more using longer logs to get your 2x6.  More chances for defect in longer boards also.
If your log will square to 7  3/8" x 6, you can get an extra 1" board.  Take that board from between the 2x6.  It will be a much better board than a jacket board in most cases. You can do this as long as you won't lose a 2x6.
A 9" x 8' log has 24' on the cedar scale and so do 3   2x6x8 which is what you should get.  You should get a good margin on sawing these.  At the price you quoted, you should do quite well.  If all the ducks line up, you will be happy.
I don't know your cedar in Nebraska, just that American Wood Fibers shaves a huge amount of it.  You might be able to sell them your slabs.

[Bibbyman]

Bibbyman:I am always impressd with your common sense.

He definitely has it, and I'm sure much of it has been from the long road of experience. I hope I can get some of that experience myself. It's always best to learn from those who have been doing it successfully and can see the big picture, while also teaching yourself.

I'm an attendee of the school of hard knocks of which there is no graduation.   :P

[paul case]

Bibbyman:I am always impressd with your common sense.

He definitely has it, and I'm sure much of it has been from the long road of experience. I hope I can get some of that experience myself. It's always best to learn from those who have been doing it successfully and can see the big picture, while also teaching yourself.

I’m an attendee of the school of hard knocks of which there is no graduation.   :P

me too. i must just be a lower classman. pc

[Buck]

That seems to be the way I learn the bestest too!

[Magicman]

I understand your protection with the contract, but contracts are broken every day.  If you make investments to supply his needs, and he goes belly up, where are you?   I never like to rely heavily or to build a business based on one customer.

[Carpenter]

I'm an attendee of the school of hard knocks of which there is no graduation.   :P
[/quote]

I put that on a resume for a college business class project.  :D My teacher didn't see the humor in it. :(  She wanted to know what courses I had taken!!

[Cedarman]

If I had been your teacher , I would have asked which ones you passsed. :D :D

[customsawyer]

I have a Doctrine in that school but still have to go to class every day.
5 years ago I had the chance to put all my eggs in one basket and it scared the devil out of me but in hind site it was not a bad deal as I was able to do better than I expected and still grow my business. That is because once I got that bird in a bush I went looking for the two to put in my hand to go with it. In poker terms it was like a full house. 8)