Picking best trees for timber framing.

[Aeneas61]

Just wanted opinions from people who have used different woods for timber framing what they would prefer.
In my area we have Pine (black and white), hemlock, tulip poplar, hard maple, hickory, oaks (white, red, black, and chestnut) sycamore, black gum, sourwood, and beech.

What Id love to hear is what you folks have used, what you would prefer most from my list, and why, (stability, severity of checking, strength, weight, and appearance)

I will have to saw wood for the timber frame itself as well as the floor and roof, id also love to hear what you would prefer to use for the roof decking/rafters and flooring.

Thanks all
Josh

[PaAnkerbalken]

My experience is limited to 3 frames but have used some of these species.

Hands down in imo here in northeast would be wp. Very stable with little movement or large checks. Of course that all depends on the location the tree grew i.e. side of hill or bottom of a hollow... That sort of thing. Pretty light and easy to move around. Easy to work. Little sappy.

Hemlock was heavy but not to bad to use. Had couple sticks that had ring shake but used it where your not gonna be touching it much. It tends to be splintery at the edges.

Tulip poplar...mixed feelings for it. Some twisted and checked very badly but it could have been my fault for letting it dry to fast. Apparently not good for poplar :. Some was quite nice. Used it for roof decking. 1 3/4".

Had some white and chestnut oak. Typical checking with some sticks having large amounts of movement. Used for sill(white) and some for flooring and stuck some away for later furniture builds(chestnut).  Drawbacks are weight and rate of schrinkage.

Not a big fan of beech as it is heavy wet with high schrinkage. Better for furniture. Plus always threat of powder post beetles.

Hickory is great firewood if that tells you my opinion of that!

Hope that helped some. Just my limited experiences. Good luck!

[witterbound]

White pine.

[Dave Shepard]

White pine is a really great timber for tf. It doesn't move much, is easy to work. I like white oak for sills. Hemlock I don't like too much.

[fishfighter]

As far as what tree, pine.

Selecting a tree for timbers, I found that picking them from the middle of the woods are 10 times better once sawed. Trees close or at the edge of the woods, I found they want to twist some after drying a little.

[shinnlinger]

White pine is my favorite as they are attractive, plentiful, large and stable.   Hemlock is stronger but shake and splinters can be an issue.   

[Mad Professor]

Besides species, don't forget the trees themselves. 

Save/saw the best for the beams which need the least defects and most strength.  Let the sawyer know what you need and what he has to work with.

[Brad_bb]

There is nothing wrong with any of those species.  They've all traditionally been used.  The advantages of White Pine is that it is the lightest for moving around, relatively stable, and works easy with chisel.  Is it that much harder working the others? No.  It all depends on what you want and what is accessible.  I wouldn't shy away from any timber that meets the standards for it's use.  Typically if you're going to use softwood, you're going to use it for the whole frame and maybe hardwood braces.  This helps for the engineering analysis.  For example a frame I was just involved in, was analyzed as if it were all Beech.  The frame used new oak(white and red), reclaimed dry beech, and Walnut braces.

What is more important is being able to visually inspect/grade a timber to know if it will work for the place in the frame.  Requirements for horizontal beams and much higher than for posts for example.  You can use organic pieces with knots and crooks if you have enough good wood with good grain.  You don't need to use straight, perfect sticks everywhere.

I milled this the other day for a post. Ash


 

Then I milled this for a tie beam or collar tie. Ash again.


 

[PineHill4488]

I would like to add a question to this thread, which part of log is best to use for post, sill, plate, tie, rafter, knee brace, king post, etc?

I'll be using yellow pine.

Thanks in advance, Greg

[4x4American]

Brad I'd love to see a pic of that tie beam when it's put up.  Neat ideas you've got!

[Jim_Rogers]

I would like to add a question to this thread, which part of log is best to use for post, sill, plate, tie, rafter, knee brace, king post, etc?

I'll be using yellow pine.

Thanks in advance, Greg

Most any log can be used for a post, or king post, as logs are strong in compression vertically.
A sill timber which is continuously supported by foundation can be a lower grade log as it doesn't support much. It is just a location for tenons to attach to and hold siding and such.
A plate, tie or rafter are structural members and should be of a very good quality and straight grained timber.
Knee braces again are strong in compression. So that can be a smaller sized piece and they can be of a natural curve at times. If you cut a curve into a straight piece of brace stock there are limits to how much curve you can cut into them so that you don't create a cross grain situation.

I believe the grade rule book says that any timber that is 5x5 or larger should be boxed heart. But I could be wrong about that. I think someone asked me for where it was in the grade rule book and I couldn't find it. Maybe it was just something that was told to me once at an engineering workshop or class.

I hope that has helped you to understand which parts of the tree can be used for different locations in a timber frame structure.

Jim Rogers

[4x4American]

Jim, on the boxed heart ordeal, I was under the impression that the best lumber was on the outside of the log...and that if you have a big ole log, you can get multiple timbers out of it..is the boxed heart just to ensure straight grain?  If there's a lot of taper, boxing the heart, I would think, wouldn't have straight grain, but maybe that far into the log it would...for heavily tapered logs I was under the influence that sawing parallel to the bark on the outside was best and then you true up the center cant in the cruddier wood towards the center.


This is just what I've been going by, please correct me where I'm wrong

[Ianab]

The better quality wood is usually on the outside of the log, but the problem with beams is not so much the grade of the wood, but if it will stay straight. When you box the heart you should keep the stresses even in the beam, and so it should stay straight as it dries out over time. Same as the idea of flipping the cant as you saw it down to release the tension on both sides evenly.

If you split the heart and make 2 or 4 beams from the log, it's possible (likely with some species) the beam is going to bow because you have juvenile wood on one side and sapwood on the other.

Now with some species (and really big logs) it's possible to saw out Free of Heart beams, and have them stay straight. But the regular logs that most folks are dealing with, it's better to center the beam, and take off the nice outside boards for some other use.

[Brad_bb]

Ianab is right on.  You box the heart to have a better chance of even stress so the beam is less likely to bow.  I've had the experience with white oak rafters - first split heart, then FOH (4"X8" rafters). These were 20 and 30 foot rafters.  The split heart bowed bad and some twisted too.  A lot of the FOH bowed too, though not as bad.  We worked with these rafters by blocking between them to pull the bow out as much as possible and then nailing the T&G 1x6 pine on them which held them in place.  The cost from the mill of the split heart wasn't bad, but the FOH was 4.5 times the cost of the split heart. 

The lesson here was not to design with long length white oak rafters.  Design so you have shorter 2 piece rafters.  It would be much cheaper to make the rafters in shorter pieces because it wouldn't require the long large diameter top quality logs that 20-30 foot FOH rafters would require.  With shorter pieces, the bow would be less and could be pulled out with the method we used. 

Side note: we did end up using the bowed and twisted material by re-milling it to become heavy treads for the stairs.

[D L Bahler]

Brad's illustration brings out a good point...

Good design follows the materials, and material in turn follows design. It's like a revolving door!
But if we're careful, we take into account the materials when we're designing a building, and don't try to do things that will unnecessarily drive up our costs.
But material drove the development of traditional forms, and it should continue to do so today.

As a good example,

the oldest barns in my area are built of solid white oak, massive timbers (14x14 or even bigger) that are impressively tall. Some great big barns were framed with tall oak posts from the sills to the purlins (these were forebay barns built with impressive dimensions). They did things this way because they could.
But their grandchildren couldn't. After the land was settled and cleared for farmlands, there weren't massive white oak forests to build these frames, so they started building according to the materials available. The 'new' barns built out of a standardized 8x8 dimension with different designs and generally shorter sticks than might have been used forty years earlier.

So this all goes to say, the best trees for timber framing is what you have available.

That being said, I like to ship in white or yellow pine (which we don't have in Indiana) because I can. So obviously there are exceptions to what I just said.

If I had my choice I'd use WP for everything, and save the hardwood for doors, trim, and furniture.

[Jim_Rogers]

Jim, on the boxed heart ordeal, I was under the impression that the best lumber was on the outside of the log...and that if you have a big ole log, you can get multiple timbers out of it..is the boxed heart just to ensure straight grain?

We usually don't try and to get multiple timbers out of a log. For all the reasons mentioned. Bowed and warped timbers.
I have written about this here on the forum and I have shown examples of timbers cut from large logs and trying to make multiples out of them. Search and read my story "boxed heart or not" and see these examples.

I was under the influence that sawing parallel to the bark on the outside was best

It is when you are sawing for thin grade lumber. But not when your primary target lumber is the timber for a timber frame.

This is just what I've been going by, please correct me where I'm wrong

I'm not saying you're wrong you just need to adjust your sawing plan based on the target lumber/timber and do the best you can to get good secondary lumber off the sides of these timbers.

Jim Rogers

PS. you may need to also ready my "Plan your last cut first" story, as well. This may help you to see where you need to stop cutting into a log.

[PineHill4488]

Jim,

Read the threads, THANKS!

They helped this neophyte understand a log better.

Greg

[Ianab]

This is why you don't want to split the pith, especially with a Eucalyptus log.  :D



OK, that's an extreme example, and most logs aren't that unruly, but that's the effect that you get, to a lesser degree, with most logs. 

[gww]

Ianab

I have had hickory, sycomore and some kind of either elm or maple come real close to your picture.
Cheers
gww

[S.Hyland]

It's a custom sawn product, worth premium dollar! Perfect for jumbo sized rocking chairs, or really heavy duty skis!  ;D

[MichaelMPerez]

Hello Friend,
Finding the right timber for your home is quite challenging and tedious. When I had my house renovated first thing I sat to plan was to decide on the framing. I have seen many people settling for Douglas Fir which is soft and structurally strong. They are easier to work with and resistant to bugs(obviously one good reason to go for this species). Getting expert advice would be of great assistance. Try seeking help from Avonlea home renovation idea Toronto  who does framing and home renovations .
If you are choosing wood from your backyard check for trees with decent straight stretch so that you can work with it. Larger the circumference the better it is.
There are different types of wood ranging from Red Fir, Pine, Cedar, Oak,dry Beech, Walnut for you to choose from.
I personally prefer Pine since they are easy to maneuver and for its fine finishing. Always check for feasibility. Timber expense varies depending on its density , location, design to mention  a few. I like the ring pattern with some timbers .
Plan for one which best suits your desire and budget. Rash decisions won't help you. Hope to see you start your farming soon.

[Brad_bb]

There are a number of timberframing books that describe qualities of different woods for timbers and how they behave when drying and from different parts of the log.  I like Steve Chappell's book  A Timber Framer's Workshop.  He also has some info on visual grading.  Every timberframer should be able to visually grade timbers.  This is not grading by the NELMA grading rules, but visual grading.