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Started by HiTech, November 24, 2015, 07:38:50 AM

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HiTech

will be dismantled for scrap starting November 30. At least that is what I heard. Soon very soon all this moving our Industries Offshore for huge profits and salaries for the CEO's is going to bite the US of A right in the keyster. Funny all this equipment that is being removed from here cause it can't make money is being installed offshore where it make billions. We can see where Corporate America places it Loyalties. Not in the men and women who got them built but in the almighty dollar that offshore brings them. We have become a Fast Food Joint Country. We are being sold down the river by what made us a GREAT Nation.

oldseabee

It may be more a case of the highest Corp tax in the world and smothering regulations driving business away then greed.

Woodhauler

Quote from: HiTech on November 24, 2015, 07:38:50 AM
will be dismantled for scrap starting November 30. At least that is what I heard. Soon very soon all this moving our Industries Offshore for huge profits and salaries for the CEO's is going to bite the US of A right in the keyster. Funny all this equipment that is being removed from here cause it can't make money is being installed offshore where it make billions. We can see where Corporate America places it Loyalties. Not in the men and women who got them built but in the almighty dollar that offshore brings them. We have become a Fast Food Joint Country. We are being sold down the river by what made us a GREAT Nation.
It has already been scrapped, They just got the permit to tear the buildings down.
2013 westernstar tri-axle with 2015 rotobec elite 80 loader!Sold 2000 westernstar tractor with stairs air ride trailer and a 1985 huskybrute 175 T/L loader!

snowstorm

Quote from: oldseabee on November 24, 2015, 09:44:09 AM
It may be more a case of the highest Corp tax in the world and smothering regulations driving business away then greed.
with verso there could be a little bit of greed involved

edkemper

Quote from: oldseabee on November 24, 2015, 09:44:09 AM
It may be more a case of the highest Corp tax in the world and smothering regulations driving business away then greed.

Funny how a business in America can become a rich corporation doing business in America and then move their operation overseas and claim it is the Taxes and regulations that chased them away. Yet they still maintain/claim an "apparent" American corporate presents here but refuse to pay their taxes.

One might also complain that the U.S. makes us prisoners or hostages in our own country. Rich corporations can get away with not paying their fair taxes when they move out of our country yet if I, an individual wants to move to Canada (for instance) and become a citizen of Canada, I still am required to pay U.S. Taxes on "World Wide Income."

The corporate taxes MADE the United States what it is/was. Corporate Taxes and the 1% are now what is driving the U.S. to the bottom.

We are not the highest taxed in the world. However, we do have environmental laws that have kept us from becoming another country without laws that protect our health and safety. There are many countries without environmental laws protecting it's citizens and the world. Do we really want to race to catch up with them?
Old Man

gww

edkemper
QuoteFunny how a business in America can become a rich corporation doing business in America and then move their operation overseas and claim it is the Taxes and regulations that chased them away. Yet they still maintain/claim an "apparent" American corporate presents here but refuse to pay their taxes.

One might also complain that the U.S. makes us prisoners or hostages in our own country. Rich corporations can get away with not paying their fair taxes when they move out of our country yet if I, an individual wants to move to Canada (for instance) and become a citizen of Canada, I still am required to pay U.S. Taxes on "World Wide Income."

The corporate taxes MADE the United States what it is/was. Corporate Taxes and the 1% are now what is driving the U.S. to the bottom.

We are not the highest taxed in the world. However, we do have environmental laws that have kept us from becoming another country without laws that protect our health and safety. There are many countries without environmental laws protecting it's citizens and the world. Do we really want to race to catch up with them?

Exactly my take on the situation.  I couldn't agree with your post more.
gww

beenthere

Corporate pays taxes with the money added to their products that they sell. So in the end, the consumer pays the taxes... IMO.  Not much gained by making corporate pay more tax.
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

grassfed

We should tax consumption. That way products that are made in other countries would not have an advantage over products that are made in this country.
QuoteCorporate pays taxes with the money added to their products that they sell. So in the end, the consumer pays the taxes...
That's right AND the products that are made in countries with lower tax rates can be sold here for less so we cannot compete
Mike

gww

A truck maker makes a truck and pays employees a decent wage and perhaps a retirement after 30 years.  The employees probly invented half the jigs used to set up the production line.  The company then decides to move production to mexico and pay low wages and no retirement.  It wasn't taxes, compatition or wanting to lower the price of the truck that made them move.  They don't lower the price, they just make even more money that they don't have to share. 

Government has a roll to play but taxing or not taxing the truck company is not why they move.  This might not be the case for all companies but the above fits many that move. 

A tax might be passed on to a consumer that buys the product but everybody isn't going to have a job at mcdonalds or walmart.  With jobs we can care about the tax but with out a job,  the tax means nothing.  The corperations move for the same reason every buisness and government office now uses a computer to answer their phone.  This is because it is all about money and not about poeple.

Just my thoughts on a change world.
gww

Ps It use to be that buisnesses that gave good bennifits were good citizens.  Now if they give bennifits they are just stupid buisness managers.

lopet

More money for ceo's and share holders, because they're doing such a good job moving production in a foreign county, have the finished product shipped half way around the globe and still being cheaper, than have it produced here.  Just my 2 cents.
Make sure you know how to fall properly when you fall and as to not hurt anyone around you.
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gww

I wonder how many poeple in mexico that build the truck now are buying it for $54,000.  Just saying.
gww

OH logger

the other side to that is tryin to find good help.  I work by myself because I cant afford to pay workers comp and all he other EXPECTED benefits to that person(insurance, vacation days, sick days, etc) . if I did  that person would be getting compensated more than me in the end. is that me bein greedy or bein a manager?? I think of it as necessary. NOT TO MENTION tryin to find GOOD help that will show up EVERY day, work hard long hours, not tear everything I've worked for up, care about the job, pass a drug test, etc. is next to impossible. if you have ever tried to hire anyone for the LONG term you know w hat I mean. its tough and is disheartening cause not many young people want to start out at the bottom and work their butts off to get some where anymore. I know some of the problem is corporate greed but some of the blame is on the new American work"force". sorry to rant and probly made some mad but that is how this simple logger sees it. :(
john

gww

Ohio l
You are not the same as a big car company or a television or camera maker.

The whole point might be that you are in a competitive field but it is not compitition when we move our tecnoligy to a low wage country and build there and no longer build here.  That is not compeeting with anyone.  It is still only one truck being made and one truck being sold.  If we built tvs and sombody grew bannanas and we traded our tv for thier bananas, that would be free trade.  If we however go get those banana growers and teach them to build our truck but still don't grow thier bananas we have now got bananas with the same compatition and trucks with the same compatition and the only differance is who is working.  I ran a restaurant and understand about help in a low profit margin buisness.  It is not the same as the companies that are big with the help of thier workers who leave thier workers and comunities high and dry for the almighty dollar.  I paid the most taxes when I made the most and I noticed it but still did better working and paying then when I was unemployed. 

I still say something needs to bring fairness back but it is not lowering corperate taxes cause I believe that is smoke and mirrors and not the root cause of the exodous of jobs to low wage unregulated countries.

Just my view.
gww


starmac

It is my thinking that we, we being the people of the whole United states, not only told these companies to move to a different land , but insisted on it.
It cost a huge company many millions to move off shore, yet they are leaveing by the droves.
The employee problem mentioned by the logger is just compounded many times by a large corporation. Affordable health care has been or will be the last straw for lots of larger companies. There has been quite a few that just closed, not going off shore or anywhere, I doubt it benefitted the ceo's too much.
Old LT40HD, old log truck, old MM forklift, and several huskies.

jd540b

I agree with Ohio logger.  And to add, I think many employees in mill and production settings are extremely entitled.  Labor unions are greedy and are crippling to many corporations.  They are part of what was the demise of many.  Their goal is to get the most while contributing the least, period.  I am trying to expand my company right now into a manufacturing venture and I have set it up to have no employees because the extra cost makes it impossible. The Verso mill in jay lost $511 million last year....if that's corporate greed-I guess I'm missing the point.

HiTech

Quote from: jd540b on November 29, 2015, 06:50:08 AM
I agree with Ohio logger.  And to add, I think many employees in mill and production settings are extremely entitled.  Labor unions are greedy and are crippling to many corporations.  They are part of what was the demise of many.  Their goal is to get the most while contributing the least, period.  I am trying to expand my company right now into a manufacturing venture and I have set it up to have no employees because the extra cost makes it impossible. The Verso mill in jay lost $511 million last year....if that's corporate greed-I guess I'm missing the point.
The $511 million you say was lost could be a sharp pencil. Big Corporations work on forecast profits. If in the 3rd quarter they are forecast to make $75 million and only make $20 million then they lost $55 million even though they made money. They pay very smart people very big $$$ to figure all this out.

jd540b

http://www.pressherald.com/2015/11/16/verso-considering-sale-of-maine-mill-bankruptcy/

Here is the article for what it's worth.  My main point is the fact that labor union have outlived their usefulness in my opinion and have become a detriment because of their greed.  My woman is a teacher-they take union dues out of their pay whether they are in the union or not!!! You want to talk about greed??!!!

gww

The unions are the only reason that anybody has a decent wage.  It is their speaking for the working class that has brought the wage up even for those who worked for nonunion companies who only raise the pay to keep the union out.  I would not call anyone trying to make $40,000 - $70,000 gready.  Hamberger is $4 a pound.    I also say that anyone recieving some of the negotiated benifits should have to pay dues to those who do the negotiating. 

It is unfair that government laws don't help more and reconize that it drags everyone up when poeple get enough to live decently.  It depends on what type of sociaty you want to live in.  If it is only survival of the fittest, I am not big enough, strong enough, mean enough and can't shoot well enough to get a fair share under those conditions.  I personally would have liked to see a single payer healtcare system as I think it would give more freedom for poeple to pursue things they enjoy doing rather then having to chase benifits in a job they dislike cause if they get sick they might lose everything.

Many times the ceo does make big money in even companies that file bankrupcy.  I think it was home depo that the ceo made $500,000 when it filed bankrupcy just like the banks giving bonuses with bail out money.  MCI went bankrupt and screwed the stock holders and was making record profits in 2 years.  My cousen lost his retirement cause he was forced to keep it in world com stock and they went bankrupt.

Cheers
gww

HiTech

Could be wrong but I think most of our problems started with the Viet Nam War. Not so much as going to war but paying for the war. The Gov. wanted to pay off the war debt, in doing so they inflated the dollar. The only problem is they let Inflation run away with itself. Before Inflation I can remember getting raises of $.01 to $.03 an hour. After Inflation anywhere from$.50 to a Dollar and hr. increases. It didn't take many years to make production in this country unprofitable or not as profitable. Then came Open Borders and Deregulation and here we are, our Industries are gone. A good example....An auto loan used to be 24 to 36 months to repay, now I see 84 to 120 months to repay. Soon you will mortgage your vehicle like your house.

CuddleBugFirewood

on the issue of corporate taxes.... I work for a  small C corp.  A community bank with one branch.

We pay roughly .42 for ever $1.00 in net income.  So on 100,000 net income, $42,000 goes to fed and state (Illinois), and 58,000 goes to shareholders. 

I am a shareholder as well, although a small one.  I get a dividend check from the bank which I then pay taxes based on my ordinary income tax rate, which could be from 10% to 36%.... so if we take the 10% number, then I have paid a minimum of 52% tax on that $1 of net income.  This is just a rough idea as each persons tax situation would be slightly different. 

To me, If I were running a large corporation, and could get a cheaper tax rate elsewhere and pass on more to the shareholders, It would be one thing I would consider.  It is my responsibility as a manager to get the most money to the shareholders that I can. 


This is a very complex issue, and lots of blame to go around.  I agree that many CEO's are probably overpaid, but that is the responsibility of the board and shareholders to hold that piece in check when negotiating their salaries, this is something that gets harder to do the more distant/smaller % owners your shareholders become as they don't have big enough voice.  They had a name for this problem when I studied economics in school, can't think of it now, but basically the owner vs. manager problem.  Managers (could also put unions in this category) concerned about jobs and their pay/ owners concerned about net income....Where does the balance lie?

CuddleBugFirewood

on the auto loans, whose fault is that for doing an 84 month loan?  The company or the consumer?
I guarantee their wouldn't be an 84 month auto loan if there wasn't a demand for it. 

HiTech

Quote from: CuddleBugFirewood on November 30, 2015, 01:56:07 PM
on the auto loans, whose fault is that for doing an 84 month loan?  The company or the consumer?
I guarantee their wouldn't be an 84 month auto loan if there wasn't a demand for it. 

I was talking to a dealer this morning and he says he has done a couple 84 month loans though he advised against it. He says the reason is people buy $50,000+ pickups to drive back and forth to work. Why? Even "Plain Jane" pickups are expensive. No frills 3/4 ton is $35,000. If I didn't live in a BIG SALT State it might be worth it. A new truck would probably last me the rest of my life. The salt they use on the roads here would disintegrate it in a few years. My Cummins engine in my "97" only has 134,000 miles on it but the salt has ate a lot of the body away. I will have to find something to transplant that engine in. 

beenthere

To add to what cuddlebugfirewood posted, our Credit Unions do not pay fed. income tax. 
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

Firewood dealer

Part of the problem is the U.S. consumer. If product A is made in America for $199.95 and product B is made in east over shoe for $189.99. We ( not all, but most ) will buy the cheaper product B to save $10 bucks. This is when corporate America MAY be saying, Okay, I would like to continue paying good wages but I can't maintain the profit margin I need to stay in business, so I need to move to east over shoe to make my product, that way I can continue in business.
I agree that greed and taxes have something to do with it, but we should step back and think about this a little. The consumer has quite a bit of clout in corporate America.

beenthere

What is "east over shoe"  ?? Guess as you posted it twice, must not be a typo.
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

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