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not quittin my day job just yet..

Started by L. Wakefield, April 10, 2002, 07:22:14 PM

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L. Wakefield

   Well, I walked around in the acreage down here in WV with the forestor today- and as the title of this post implies, there isn't that much there ready to go. It was good for my learning curve- and unfortunately just fueled the fire of thinking about a mill, cuz it sounds like for the little bit of timber that's ready now, no one would want to come in and cut. Not enough volume to be worth it. But I'm going to wait on his plan. I was pleased to see how well the tulip poplars are doing. And I know a lot more about white oak now than I did earlier. It's a different tree down here than it is up in Maine- I don't mean literally, but in distribution, growth habit, and somewhat in appearance. I'm taking pictures...lw
L. Wakefield, owner and operator of the beastly truck Heretik, that refuses to stay between the lines when parking

Bud Man

LW, Don't keep us in the dark , tell us what the Forester said and did. did ya'll bore some trees and discuss % growth etc.....?? Huh ??
The groves were God's first temples.. " A Forest Hymn"  by.. William Cullen Bryant

RavioliKid

I must have missed something, Lynn...

Are you planning to move or are you just investing?

Whichever - it sounds exciting!
RavioliKid

Bibbyman

LW,  

Your comments reminded me of how we got into the sawmill business to start with.  We had bought the family farm in 77.  About 2/3 of the 140 acres is cut over hardwoods.  But as time went by,  a lot of nice red oaks started dying.  I hated to cut them up for firewood but that's how many were used because there was no other reasonable way to market them. :'(  

Then the Great Flood of 93 came.  Our farm is less than 10 miles from the Missouri River and sets on a tributary to it.  Well, it washed out about 20 very nice, on the verge of being valuable, walnut trees. (My retirement trees, I called them.)  >:(

That did it and by the spring of 94 we had our first Wood-Mizer. We recovered as many of the walnut trees a possible from a rack-heap in the stream and sawed them into lumber.  ;) We try to use all the damaged and dead trees we can on the farm.  (We've added another 80 acres of almost all hardwood forest.)  When we have a need for low grade logs, we target the trees with the least potential but will fit the purpose - thus, we are gaining income from the forest without lowering it's value and probably even improving it by reducing crowding.
Wood-Mizer LT40HDE25 Super 25hp 3ph with Command Control and Accuset.
Sawing since '94

L. Wakefield

   Waall, I finally got home. Nuthin like coming home to the farm in April to make you feel the need to hit the ground runnin'..I brought a bunch of transplants back, and now after 24 hours home and 1 day shift at work, they are all planted. Thank God for daylight savings..

   We did have a mighty nice walk on the acreage down in WV. Quite the eye-opener. Dave has a nifty steel tape, for starters, with inches on one side and then a scale for diameter in the other. I gotta have me one of them.. It's about as handy a gadget as a weight tape for heart girth on a beeve, since I don't have a scale.

   He started out by helping me with species ID, especially on ones I had disremembered..Dogwood up here grows as a shrub, but down there it's an actual tree..A lot of fox grape had grown up, and he emphasized that stand improvement would definitely include cutting those off at the base if they involved any desirable trees. Of course, I'm a softy for anything that provides feed sources for wildlife, so we compromised on it being Ok to leave grape in the poor trees.

   I hadn't heard of scarlet oak as being distinct from red oak, but he was mentioning that. White oak and tulip poplar seem to be my best specimens down there. And it's festering with persimmon. The 2 biggest ones had died, but while he wasn't of the opinion that they'd get big enough to be sawtimber, he seemed to have a soft spot for them himself in terms of the appearance of the wood as a specialty product.

   One of the most valuable things, potentially, was the discussion we had about the site where they are planning to put in an oil/gas well. He has done a fair amount of timber valuation for the recovery of surface damages; and pointed me in the direction of the court house to check out the statutes on that. Happened they were closed, but the library had them. So I got some correspondin to do on that topic.

   We didn't bore any holes. Is that a typical thing for this kinda walkaround? As far as plans go- 'I showed him mine and he showed me his..' I had brought down the plan Everett Towle had done for the acreage up here in Me., cuz I am interested in being able to do comparision. he includes much the same types of data- some bits more detailed, some less. Where I have 11 soil types up here, there are only 2 down there- Upshur and Gilpin. It's all hardpan in my book, but he sez it tends to be different on the east and west facing slopes.

   The tulip poplars were definitely more prevalent than before. I was walking around trying to spy one small enough to transplant. he'd told me that the buds look like a duck's beak- and they definitely do. So I kept muttering to myself- 'If it looks like a duck'... you'll be glad to know that none of them were quacking like a duck or walking like a duck..

   I found about 7 new young holly trees, and transplanted 1. anybody know a way to tell male from female at a young age?- these were a foot tall or less, and there were about 5 paler green ones and one that was darker green- all in the same 12ft area. I extracted 2 very close together- and took the darker one north with me (gave the other to a friend)
    Got one arbor vitae that's WAY old- and doing well. Got a red cedar that has been having lots of babies. I'm glad to see it. The arbor vitae doesn't have any young ones aroung. Are they dioecious?
 
   I cut foliage of red cedar, arbor vitae, and Virginia pine to distill. I really like the scent of the sap of the Virginia pine- specially that of the younger trees.

   It was a good time, though going back always hurts some- but I can't help loving it, too. It's very different to have 2 places to call home. The woods are so TOTALLY different- and so is the soil- and the houses- and the people- and the job market. Only place I know where they expect you to drive down the middle of the road. Great to cruise in my beastly truck.. lw
L. Wakefield, owner and operator of the beastly truck Heretik, that refuses to stay between the lines when parking

Tom

LW,
Isn't it fun to cruise with a forester that knows his stuff and is teaching as much or more than cruising?  The older ones, I find especially interesting.  We have one by the name of Hill that is a "grumpy old man" in the meetings with local government, but a pleasurable treasure in the woods.  He seems to enjoy walking my property as much as I do, and his eyes just beam when he identifies certain plants or tells me something I didn't know.

Paul_H

LW,It sounds like a very nice spot,hope to see some pictures.Never been in that area.One day I hope 8)
Science isn't meant to be trusted it's to be tested

Bud Man

LW  Generally a first time walk-around is all about taking each others pulse.  If you get a Forester beyond the point that he thinks he is talking with just someone interested in short terms and economics then you've reached his heart and soul. Most Foresters get soured when they get the feeling they are just answering questions of an economical nature, you can almost see them slump an inch or two and expell a breath of air and say to themselves, silently, another one. . A Forester knows  when he is just going through the motions with a person that has no deep-seated feelings for maximizing his skills. But when he gets with someone that really wants to attain long term lasting results and that will utilize his abilities to reach a multifaceted set of goals in many areas you'll be able to sense within him an uplifted spirit.  He might not grin ear to ear but his enthusiasm will show and his speech and verbage will be different. You will never become a PITA to one if the questions are the right ones, I suspect both of you smiled and had a warm feeling for having met each other and having been able to enjoy each others appetite for similar interests.  Having seen and  read your interest level on this forum I know you enlightened his day !!
The groves were God's first temples.. " A Forest Hymn"  by.. William Cullen Bryant

woodmills1

LW  I remember them tulip poplars in W VA  they get real big and straight.  around here what we call poplar is really quaking aspen, or is that quacking aspen :D
James Mills,Lovely wife,collect old tools,vacuuming fool,36 bdft/hr,oak paper cutter,ebonic yooper rapper nauga seller, Blue Ox? its not fast, 2 cat family, LT70,edger, 375 bd ft/hr, we like Bob,free heat,no oil 12 years,big splitter, baked stuffed lobster, still cuttin the logs dere IAM

Bud Man

Lw  The Tulip Poplar is the Tennessee state tree.  Went to the Bank Head National forest in Alabama and there were some 200 ft.er's, quite a sight ! Beautiful in bloom !
The groves were God's first temples.. " A Forest Hymn"  by.. William Cullen Bryant

L. Wakefield

   While we're on the subject- L. tulipifera is a member of the Magnoliaceae- those flowers are WAY up there...has anyone had the opportunity to observe whether or not they are scented? Southern magnolias are, of course.. and Michelia champaca- another member of the family- which grows in India- is very sweetly scented and by repute is the source of one of the fragrances used in 'Nag Champa' incense. The harvesting of the champaca flower involves some very high-angle work! There was a pic recently in one of the mags about tree people- beds in redwoods etc. Seemed like what they used in the Sean Connery movie Medicine man. I was looking at the rigging and thinking I'd need somewhat similar to investigate tulipifera's flowers.   lw
L. Wakefield, owner and operator of the beastly truck Heretik, that refuses to stay between the lines when parking

Bud Man

If their in the Magnolia family they must smell like a Magnolia , and they do !
The groves were God's first temples.. " A Forest Hymn"  by.. William Cullen Bryant

L. Wakefield

   Well, (gulp), that certainly is an incentive to learn some high-angle techniques. i know they are NOT a Populus- are the branches brittle, or are they likely to stand weight fairly well? (DanG, I hate heights..) :D :D :D  lw
L. Wakefield, owner and operator of the beastly truck Heretik, that refuses to stay between the lines when parking

Bud Man

Just wait till a rain , they dislodge pretty easy and save yourself some agony and maybe some injury or just chunk a stick, they'll come raining down for a closeup !
The groves were God's first temples.. " A Forest Hymn"  by.. William Cullen Bryant

L. Wakefield

   I've seen the PETALS that way- kind of gold and orange with a slight green cast..but the spike in the centre of the flower, as I understand it, remains on the tree and develops into the seedpod, 'candlestick' looking thing that is so lovely on the bare tree after it sheds its leaves. There is a related tree that someone had called a 'cucumber' tree which has a more beefy looking central spike (like a, uh, cucumber, yknow?) and moderately similar flower otherwise- but not the graceful form of the tukip poplar, and does not have a great smell to the flower.

   I had never noticed any scent to the spent petals. Maybe someof my younger trees will bloom before the flowers are QUITE out of reach.   lw
L. Wakefield, owner and operator of the beastly truck Heretik, that refuses to stay between the lines when parking

Phil

Ahhh.  I remember fondly my forester days, before I left to pretend to be a writer and gain 20 pounds.  LOL

My favorite landowners were very interested in learning about their land, as you seem to be.  It was a youngish couple.  The husband had bought the 200 acres as an anniversary present for his wife.  We spent many a day exploring the property, spotting wildflowers (found a colony of over 100 yellow ladyslippers), discussing wise forest management principles, etc.

I still get the occasional call from landowners seeking forest management assistance, but most of those calls are some variation of "Someone stole a bunch of trees from me.  Can you tell me what they're worth?"

I'm assuming that your WV acreage, like much of that here in eastern Kentucky, is made up of low-value stuff, but that DOES have certain advantages for someone who wants to make the improvement of that woodland a lifelong project.  It's rewarding, in this kind of timber, to make even a small step toward improving timber quality or wildlife habitat.

By the way, here's another bit of tulip-poplar trivia:  the tulip-poplar, I believe, is the tallest flowering plant in the East (or is it in the nation, given that the big boys out West are all conifers?)

Phil

L. Wakefield

   They are TALL, alright. The article on Tree Climbing ('Lofty Aspirations') was in the March 2002 Smithsonian. They have a pic of a redwood (the 'Henry' tree) that boggles the mind. It may be done with a weird cam angle, but something that big just commands respect.

   The forestor and I discussed improvement, naturally. He emphasized cutting grape vine. When I talked about planting, he mentioned site index as one of the criteria for determining the practicality of such a venture. The gist of it seemed to be if it wasn't fertile enough of a spot, the planting would be wasted energy.

   I generally have a fair respect for looking at what is there already. On the place here up north, I am overjoyed to find one (1) tamarack growing. it seems to me to be an indicator of where to plant more. One of my missions now is to locate a wholesaler for about 100 of these babies. Just plug em in. Does anyone have a good word to say about variety? I gather it's Larix- maybe laricina- but the nearest wholesaler only had a Japanese variety in stock. What's the advantage in that? I would think a native type or perhaps half the native and half the European. Anyone got some input here?

   All my transplants from both north and south are doing well. I had my doubts with all this snow, but my home-produced compost seems to do well for a good welcome-home dose of what-have-you.

   In the midst of garden mania now. All the asparagus are fertilized and tilled, kale, spinach, and chard are in, and we just today did 4 45' rows of peas. Now let it snow again! ::)

     lw
L. Wakefield, owner and operator of the beastly truck Heretik, that refuses to stay between the lines when parking

Ron Scott

~Ron

swampwhiteoak

I concur with Ron.  Forest seedling nurseries should have tamarack instead of the european or asian stock.

L. Wakefield

   Exactamundo! This nursery is about the closest and the biggest wholesaler that I know of- but all their stock seems so bogus- to my unenlightened reading. All hybrids and like that- it's like reading a bulb catalog or a rose catalog where it's got to be all the newest stuff. I just want trees. I will have to look at it again.   lw
L. Wakefield, owner and operator of the beastly truck Heretik, that refuses to stay between the lines when parking

Bud Man

Sometimes you can't see the forest for the trees, find a local nursery with a nursery stock. The net always takes the easy way out and will go for the easiest seed stock to plant, I bet their is a local nursery that has a stock of seedlings that would be better anyway for your area !
The groves were God's first temples.. " A Forest Hymn"  by.. William Cullen Bryant

L. Wakefield

   Yrah, they are the most local- about 1 hour away. But I haven't talked to them on the phone yet or gone there. They may have more than they put on the net. The thing is they list a ton of stuff and mostly it's 'out of stock'. Hmm..I'll dig around
    lw
L. Wakefield, owner and operator of the beastly truck Heretik, that refuses to stay between the lines when parking

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