Clearcut in Nova Scotia, need help

[WindyAcres]

Hello everybody,

I don't know what to do and I am hoping that somebody can help me with my woodlot.
My wife and I moved from Germany to Nova Scotia two years ago. We wanted to have a nice woodlot (for firewood, my sawmill, building a timber frame house,..) but we gave up after one year (and 45 properties later). We now have 65 acres but the woodlot is in terrible shape. The worst part is an area (I have to GPS it but roughly 25 acres) that has been clear-cut about 15 years ago.

This is a picture of how the forest used to look like (its a small strip that is left on my neighbours property). Its dominated by hemlock (I could not get my arms around the hemlock to the right), but there are some nice ash, yellow birch,etc. in there.


 

This is how it looks know. Mostly grey birch and chocke cherry. Fairly tall and thick. I have noticed that the have some kind of disease and start to die already?

 

Some parts show a really thick layer of branches and not many trees.

 

I tried cutting a trail in there. Really hard work (that costs me time and money) and it came back like crazy.


 

????
Sometimes I am thinking of mulching.. Is there funding available to just mulch this whole area and replant it? Spruce is not my favourite tree but at least I would start getting some money from it in about 25 years and have some sawlogs in 50 years.

Thanks

[Mooseherder]

Do you have the option of selling that property and buying something you'll be happy with?  Wait for the right piece of land to come available if you haven't started building yet. 

[WindyAcres]

Hi Mooseherder,

so you dont have an answer either, other than quitting? (Sometimes that is what one has to do but I am not there yet..).

How much does a mulcher cost and how much area can he cover/h? The property is fairly flat, not many rocks... It might not be worth it for myself and I probably will never be happy with it but maybe for my children (mulched and reforested with spruce..)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BBAeaEiVVtY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=znIL6sooLlE

We are living on the property (100 acres) and are pretty happy with it other than the forest (which is a bid deal to me..).

:christmas:

[WDH]

Looks like from the pics that the cutting was done less than 15 years ago for there to be that much slash still on the ground.

[thecfarm]

I have a few areas that kinda look like the hemlock picture. But on my land white pine seems to come in thick and I do mean thick. My forest had not been managed at all,just firewood and some logs many years ago. I don't think yours was either by the picture. Once you cut the big trees that opens it right up and things take right off and grow. Probably with some of the small stuff around that hemlock it may be as old as the hemlock,just no size to it. If you did bring in a mulcher and planted you would still have to keep down all the trees you do not want to grow.

[Jamie_C]

The problem with trying to mulch that hardwood regen is that in 2 years it will look exactly the same as it does now. You might be able to underplant with some spruce and hemlock and try to keep the undesirable hardwoods at bay by cleaning with a brush saw but it will be a lot of work.

The trails of heavy limbs would be the brush mats made when using harvesters/processors.

The choke cherry and grey birch have a fairly short life span around here. Maybe try getting in touch with the North Nova Forest Co-op (think thats the right name) over in Wentworth, they might be able to help you out some.

[Ron Scott]

Like WDH said, it looks like a fairly recent clearcut that is still in the process of regeneration. It would be good for you to know your soil types to help plan your future forest's potential.

If you can, seek out the services of a professional forester serving the area for some advice after having them look a the property with you.

[thecfarm]

Jamie said the life span of choke cherry and grey birch is short. Which is right. The good stuff should grow above that stuff and smother it out. But that will take time.I can still find a few old grey birch stumps in the grown up pasture,30 years ago.

[SwampDonkey]

That's probably about a 6-7  year old cut and likely hemlock slash in the trails which rots slower than hardwood. The choke cherry would be pin cherry actually and it has black knot disease. Choke cherry up here only grows as big as beaked hazel bushes. The trees that resprouted in the trail are pin cherry suckers. A pin cherry can grow 4 -6 feet off seed the first year when it germinates. It's not worth much and gray birch isn't much better. But I'm wondering if it's all gray birch because white birch looks the same except the catkins of gray are singles and the 2-3 on white. Your not going to accomplish much by brushing and mulching the stems because it will grow right back to the same, only thicker because the stumps will grow multiple more stems. You would have to apply herbicide and more than once. You will be surprised of the new pin cherry that comes back from seed still in that ground after the first herbicide treatment. Then you could plant your softwoods. I wouldn't even attempt to plant hardwood unless the seedlings had some protection. The wildlife would eat them up in a  week.
The trouble with your hemlock stand you had, was it didn't allow germination because they generally shade out the ground. The pin cherry have live seed in the ground from past disturbances that took place a century or more ago. The gray birch came in on the wind. Might even be some striped maple there to, they often grown under hemlock canopy and can get to about 8" in girth, but not commercial and very soft wood. They are very tolerant of shade. We often call it moose wood.

I'm kind of wondering about the softwood I see around in the pictures to. It's hard to tell from photos, but generally if there are evergreens like fir left on some of those sites that look flat topped, or whorls are close and the bark is dried up (no bubbles) on them then they are a lot older than you think and probably rotten in the but. Cut one and see.

If you were to do any kind of brushing in there, find some areas that have good commercial trees and take a brush saw to it when they are 20 feet tall to space them out. Too soon and you make a mess. Space to 6-7 feet apart, bringing what is cut to the ground. I would not recommend spruce to plant because of the snow show hares, if you have any, will browse them relentlessly because the other tree in there create cover for them to feel welcome while eating your spruce. So underplanting will not work very well. Spruce is shade tolerant, but getting them up in height so you can cut the junk out is going to be a challenge. They will grow spindly and not very strong because of the suppression.

I'm "guessing" you bought land, site unseen, through a realtor and they don't know beans about the woods. It's just land to them and pin cherries could be mature trees to them. I've seen it all. ;)

Nova Scotia has woodland woodlot cooperatives that help land owners with silviculture funding. There most often is a waiting list because $$ is not in abundance. They aren't going to help make a parkland, their goal is trees for future fiber and log production. Silviculture is not cheap, so any help in doing this is a leg up.

[WindyAcres]

Thank you all for your response!

@WDH
I counted the growth rings of the trees when I cut my trail.. I dont remember exactly but it was more than 10 years. But it doesnt matter if 5, 10 or 50 years years, its thick and tall and a big problem. Like SwampD said, that layer of branches is hemlock and it takes quite a while for it to rot..

@thecfarm
I wish it would all come back thick in white pine, you are lucky. White pine is a beautiful tree that is great for timber framing, t&g panels,etc. Cuts really nice when its young too, you can just mow it down (easy thinning).

The good stuff should grow above that stuff and smother it out. But that will take time.I can still find a few old grey birch stumps in the grown up pasture,30 years ago.

I am not sure what you mean. Which good stuff? I have noticed the odd tiny spruce/red maple in there. So you think they will take over in 50 years?

@Jamie
You are right, mulching will not help. It will probably even get worse (like SwampD says multiple more stems..)

@Ron
Good point, soil type is important to consider (so is elevation, rainfall, wind,..). I dont think it will matter much though in this clearcut case..

@SwampDonkey
That is a good point about the white birch, I have to have a closer look at it again but I dont think that I have seen any.
Thanks, sounds like you have some knowledge about it (unfortunately, it doesnt make the situation better). However, you were absolutely wrong about the property.. I was searching for over one year and actually looked at over 45 properties (personally). I started with realtors but I was very disappointed (I think I tried 5 different ones) pretty quick! I tried kijiji. I put flyers at the supermarket,etc... I mentioned to EVERYBODY I saw that we were looking for a property. Then I started knocking in doors but gave up after 20 visits or so..  I was pretty frustrated.. At the end I printed over 1000!! flyers and my wife and I drove around and put it in the mailboxes. I think after 700 flyers we found a property that fulfilled almost all of our criteria (and the only one where people wanted a fair price for it!). We visited the people at least 5 times or so and closed the deal two months later. I walked the woodlot and wasnt impressed, but it was the best woodlot I had seen so far.

I think we have to make the best out of this mess and we will do that by just enjoying our walking trails. It will be hard for me not to think about how much stuff I could have picked out of that forest over the years and how many nice trees I could have seen growing up (ash, sugar maple,..) and to hand that over to somebody else... but I will try to forget about it and we will probably give the land many decades to recover from this clearcut.

[SwampDonkey]

@SwampDonkey

However, you were absolutely wrong about the property.. I was searching for over one year and actually looked at over 45 properties (personally). I started with realtors but I was very disappointed (I think I tried 5 different ones) pretty quick!

Well it's good that you worked at the search and not relied too much on others. But as I said those realtors are not much help to find land to fit anyone's criteria. They are just selling land. A few do have foresters, semi retired or part time that do know the woods, but most don't. They also don't do inventory of any sorts, it's just woods. A cut like that with no much non commercial trees would be worth no more than $200/acre if it was for sale. Most of the woodlot sales in my area are farms, so unless your going farming on a large scale the woods is not for sale. Outside of that it may be a camp lot of Christmas tree farm once in awhile. Land usually changes hands within family much of the time. There is one piece down the road here for sale, but it is a haggled over piece probably no better than what you found. Crabbe lumber company usually buys up any woodland that has timber and often they are the only ones that know about it because the sellers go to them first. I don't know why, because they don't pay the best prices going. Often times way less than fair. Often times land comes up as tax sales. Someone absantee lets the taxes go or someone elderly looses their faculties and the taxes go unpaid. I always feel this is a sleezy way to get land.

[thecfarm]

I am not sure what you mean. Which good stuff? I have noticed the odd tiny spruce/red maple in there. So you think they will take over in 50 years?

What I was comparing it too was my place. On my land all the junk will grow up and than the maple,oak,beech,hemlock,spruce,white pine, will smother out the junk stuff. On my land yes and it will and has taken over and made for a nice forest. But that is not a good way to manage a forest. The maples, in the grown up pasture, have have grown into clumps. There maybe 4 to 8 in a clump. Not a good way to grow logs. But the oak look pretty good.
Probably swampdonkey can give you examples of a forest that is trimmed and ones that was just left for mother nature to do.

[Phorester]

You are the owner of a young hardwood forest, and this is what they look like.  One problem with forests is that they have a much longer life span than us people, and we are impatient to wait the decades it takes a young forest such as you have now to grow into the big trees we seem to like. 

As already stated, mulching will gain you nothing except a year or two of stumps, then the new growth will bring you right back to where you are now.

I'd talk to a management forester in your neck of the woods and get his opinions of the best tree species to manage for on your property.  If they are not there naturally, then you should probably get rid of what is there now (mulching may be one option if this is the case) and plant the best tree for the site.  If you already have natural regeneration of good tree species for the site, you are in excellent shape.  Here in Virginia, a landowner can start in on improvement practices when a young hardwood forest has gown big enough that you can walk through it comfortably, not squeezing past thick saplings or having to get on hands and knees to get through.

You are in a good position to begin proper management of this forest in a few years.  But it is simply a young forest at this point. It will take a few decades before it has those big trees you are looking for.

[Ianab]

At a guess the saplings in that pic are starting to "self thin", and the weaker ones are getting smothered by the strongest ones. Hence the suggestion of helping the process along, selecting the trees you want to keep, cutting out the others. When you look at the first picture, note the mature tree spacing, and compare it to the new regrowth. Over the next 20 years, most of those saplings will die off (or be removed) to end up at that final spacing. Even if you do nothing, they will naturally thin out. Doing this manually just means YOU get to choose the final trees. You wont get much regeneration or regrowth thinning those, as the canopy has closed over and less light reaches the ground. More shade tolerant species may grow, but these tend to be slower and wont catch up to the older saplings.

You will have trouble keeping trails open until you get canopy closure, where the tress are tall enough to again shade your trail. Otherwise you simply create a new clearing, plenty of light, stump sprouts or new seedlings rush to fill the gap. Getting to the stage where they are big enough to shade a walking trail shouldn't take too long.

I wouldn't worry too much about the patches of branches. Yes they were thick enough to suppress seedlings in some places, but when you look at the final spacing, and trees you do have, not a big issue. If the trees can't close in the gap, eventually the branches will have rotted down, and something will grow in the remaining "light tunnel".

Doing any sort of mulching is simply going to "reset" things and start again. Unless you do something different, like planting the seedlings you want. If you do want to encourage some different species, you could find the natural gaps (or create some) and plant decent size seedlings.

But in the end, even if you do nothing at all, eventually a reasonable forest is going to grow, they always do. Questions are, what species of trees, what quality of tree (if timber is your aim) and how long it's going to take. Realistically any management you do now is going to be for your children / grandchildren to benefit from. The trees in the original picture are probably 50 years old, it's going to take another 45 years to get back to that sort of state.

Ian

[SwampDonkey]

Add another 100-150, hemlock is very slow growing up here. It is a climax species. Most of those dark stems are a shrub called pin cherry. I've seen some sites be dominated by pin cherry and gray birch just like that. Both just shrub species. Eventually red maple and fir will take over as they are very shade tolerant and the shrubs there will live for about 50 years. If there is no hemlock there now, it won't be there for a very long time because it doesn't move on the wind very far. In the last picture I can now pick out the fir. A fir here and there will eventually produce a lot trees. Fir is a short lived softwood. This was never a hardwood site, it was mixed wood dominated by intolerant hardwoods. In my area we would classify it as a VT (vegetation type) 7 or 8, but that is for NB. Putting it into a Treatment Unit called TU9 Dry, Moderately Rich, IH-Mixedwood. That fancy name calling doesn't mean much unless your trying to classify the site. Although red maple is shade tolerant, it is tossed in with the birches and labeled "Intolerant Hardwood" for classification purposes. Tolerant hardwood are considered to be beech, sugar maple, yellow birch. That site was never that mix although there could be some of them sparsely present. When your on a tolerant hardwood site it's vastly thicker after a clear cut and left a few years to grow. Thick, thick, thick.

[petefrom bearswamp]

I can relate to Windyacres problem
In 2007 I did a seed tree cut on 40 acres removing the Aspen, poorer quality trees leaving the Cherry, Yellow birch Hard maple a few Norway spruce etc.\ on a very wide spacing.
The aspen has sprouted with a vengeance now 12 to 15 feet tall thick as hair on a dog's back.
As I expected several of the now exposed trees have blown over but this is part of the process.
At my age I will not see even a cut of the aspen, but perhaps the some of the seed trees after they have reproduced.
The up side to this is that the deer love the cover and I get a huge blackberry crop.

[Klicker]

Did you ever ask Sandy & Trish about what we did on our land.