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A different (to me) method of landing processing - any advice?

Started by brent373, March 25, 2013, 08:52:49 AM

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brent373

As a background , I hand cut with a skidder and cut a some cedar and pulpwood. I have always felled/limbed in the bush and used the skidder on the landing to square and sort the log length piles. In my opinion a skidder is poorly suited for this and the extra back and forth shifting of the machine is extra wear on the drivetrain. The new area I am working in is large enough to allow pulling trees out with limbs on. I have a front end loader with forks and plan to use the loader to move, sort and stack logs. I know this is common but I have not tried it this way yet. Have any of you advice or suggestions on how to use this process most efficiently? Lately, I have been skidding cedar limbs on to landing, to get as much wood as I can out before the wet ground puts me out of the bush.

lumberjack48

When ever i logged Cedar i backed them up to limb them. Then i'd sort the trees out, like drop the big ones first, then pull ahead with the smaller trees. This will save you a lot of sorting time.
Third generation logger, owner operator, 30 yrs felling experience with pole skidder. I got my neck broke back in 89, left me a quad. The wife kept the job going up to 96.

Bill_G

I use an excavator to sort on the landing , as far as limbing , I've tried it every which way , limb in place , limb in the skid road , limb on the landing , etc . I find that most of the time limbing in place is the best unless the snow is super deep , then I will limb in the skid roads . Any way you do it you still have to limb . As far as sorting goes I like to sort my own wood , that way I know what I have where .

lumberjack48

Bill when its 0 and colder you shouldn't have to hardly limb anything. If the Cedar has any size, you can back the limbs off anytime, they break easy.
Set up a limbing pole sometimes, but usually just backed-em up in the woods, they come out like rea poles.
Third generation logger, owner operator, 30 yrs felling experience with pole skidder. I got my neck broke back in 89, left me a quad. The wife kept the job going up to 96.

brent373

In the winter I have tried backing them into the bush and it often works very well. It's the sorting at the landing that I find a little time consuming between separating different length logs and hopping in and out of the skidder. Lumberjack48, how would you use this limbing pole ?

Atlantic Trader

I have done it both ways and found it best to limb in the woods, not on the landing it makes for a hell of a mess on the landing. Even if you use the skidder to push it off or into piles to burn it still makes for a mess. Even a fire hazard. If you limb near or at the landing when hauling hardwoods, the following hauls will get dragged through the slash and get caught up in th chokers and jammed between the trees on the line. I always limb in the woods, fwiw

jocco

Only suggestions i have on sorting is set up some sub piles in the woods so once you come out to the yard you go strait to the pile and unhook,  push up and go. What i mean is if you have high grade pine logs do not mix with pulpwood, firewood etc on that skid. Some have several piles and unhook the pulp, pull ahead to the logs etc. Only problem is it is usuall a mess to unhook the first one is always burried under a big log etc. Next put down some skids on the yard  and it is easier to push up on. Many people can pile very high and the end of the pile you could wallpaer it is so straight!!! :P Others would have a brush heap with 2 logs!!!! :o The guys that used to cut 100 cord a week never fooled with tractor forks etc!!! ::)
You may check out but you will never leave

brent373

When I cut pulpwood, or pine for example when all logs are the same length, heaping the pile and squaring the butts works fine. The reason for wanting to employ the forks is in cedar, i cut varying lengths (8, 10, 12 footers for example) plus a post or 2 per tree. Using my skidder, and to properly sort the logs I measure from the butt, but cut from the top. I'll pull up to the post pile cut the posts off. Pull up to the ten foot pile, cut a ten footer off, and if I'm lucky enough to get 2 twelves, I move twice and cut again. Climbing in and out of my  old Clark 4 times on the landing is not efficient to me, when I have probably already done it 2 or 3 times in the bush for that hitch. I try to keep neat piles but in situations like I described this can steal from productivity.

lumberjack48

I was very fussy about the landing, things had to be straight and neat, everything had its place. When cutting hardwood logs and saw bolts, i measured and marked everything in the woods. I found sorting the trees in the woods was way faster then sorting on the landing. I basically always had a skidder operator, i fell drag for drag, helping hook an sort. We pulled 15 to 25 cds a day, depended how good the timber was.

A limbing pole is a 30' pole, about 12" dia. Then find a handy spot where your coming out of the woods. Find two trees about 20' apart, to hang the limbing pole on. You also need a good turn tree to come around to get the drag straighted out before backing the trees under the limbing pole. When putting the pole up, bore cut a hole in both trees about 3' from the ground. Then using a chain or choker, hang the pole about 1' from the ground, putting the chain though the hole then around the limbing pole. It might have to be adjusted after its been used. Sometimes we'd hang two poles up, one above the other. The hole purpose is the tops of the trees have to go under the pole. The trees have to be up against the bunt plate, or you can break chokers. When we ran two skidders we limbed each others trees. Another way that worked good, i'd pull some big hardwood tops into some smaller trees, get-em bound up. Then back into that, worked very good. I also made a limbing gate out of an old truck frame, i welded bars up and down in it. Then i'd drag it out and chain it up between some trees, also worked good. You used to be able to buy a limbing gate. It was spring loaded, you drove over it, when the trees cleared the gate it would spring back up, then you back the trees though it.
Third generation logger, owner operator, 30 yrs felling experience with pole skidder. I got my neck broke back in 89, left me a quad. The wife kept the job going up to 96.

brent373

Did you use the pole for the hardwoods too or just cedar? I'm going to give that a try. I'm sure they would still need some dressing by hand after they go through but all the brush would be out of the way, and just knubs to trim.

Ed_K

 Make life easier, hang a 35" grapple off the forks.You can bring out different species,cut too log length and start at the butts and stack on whatever sort pile you want.
Ed K

MEloggah

I chop and limb where they lay 99% of the time then drive in with the skidder if I can get to it and crunch down the limbs on the next hitch. I yard everything tree length. no issues. piles look very pretty other then when I work with this guy I am newly hooked up with. he's pretty green and the piles look like pickup sticks. its frustrating but hes getting better. I cut my soft wood first, hardwood second. no issues. my logs are at the beginning of the piles pulp at the rear naturally only occasionally having to yard a tree here and there top  first. aint no big thing. don't think too hard about it you'll hurt yourself ;)

lumberjack48

 Limbing pole is used for Cedar, Spruce, Balsam, Jack Pine, Norway pulpwood, Hardwood firewood or pulpwood. Like when cutting Balsam in the summer, i would tip-em over, then the wife would run down-em with the blade, limbs just-ta fling. Then back up with the Bar Paws against the side of the tree and back down the other side. After that I'd help hook, then she'd winch-em up, pull ahead to get-em together, then back-em up a few times. While she did this i'd walk head about a 100', she'd come roaring by me, drop the drag, and i'd trim up what was left and top. This all took place in a matter of minutes. In the winter i fell and helped hook, she'd swig-zag between trees on the way out snapping the limbs off. Sometimes she didn't have to back up at all with them. If any trees had a school mom Id cut it off, other wise you'll split the tree when backing up with it.
Same when cutting Aspen, I'd knock any big limbs off and school moms. We'd back-em down though the standing timber, knocking the brush and snow down and limbing the same time. My logging jobs looked like a park, i used desiccated places to cut off and lop down big tops. In average 8 to 16" Aspen all the limbs were gone by the time they hit the landing, i learned if i didn't top-em when cutting 8' i gained 2 to 3 cords day.
Like cutting Aspen to big for pulp, some had 1, 16' log, some had 2, if it had 2 i'd cut it 33' to get it down to pulp size. When i had enough logs for a full drag, 6 to 12 logs, 600 bf to 1500+ we'd hook-em up. I found this method so much faster then sawing them off on the landing, no dirt, no off an on the skidder, no tying the skidder up on the landing.
Same when cutting hardwood logs and saw bolts. If a Ash had 1 16' log and 4, 8'er's, i'd saw the log off, logs had to be bigger then 13" and straight as an arrow. If more then 1 log, i left them hooked. After sawing the log off i'd measure and mark the 8'er's with the saw, some had 2, some had 4. Running 6 chokers, a drag of saw bolts was a 1/2 cd. to a full cd. a drag of logs 600 bf to ????. The thing thats nice, all you do on the landing is saw up the 8'er's. I had 3 piles of 8'er's, so we could deck a cord and drop a cord at each one. We did this before each lunch break, when i came out, i'd buck up the first pile, then she'd deck what was dropped while i sawed up the second pile. When we got done bucking up, we'd have lunch and do it all over again.
The yrs that i logged i worked on methods, the fastest, easiest way to put the most volume on the landing with out working to hard. ;D
None of this may work for you, the main thing is a good partner, that likes things done right.  8)
Third generation logger, owner operator, 30 yrs felling experience with pole skidder. I got my neck broke back in 89, left me a quad. The wife kept the job going up to 96.

barbender

I think you worked plenty hard, Duane ;) You better explain what a "school mom" (or "school marm" as I've heard it) is :D
Too many irons in the fire

lumberjack48

Barbender your right [ School Marm ] some reason we used School Mom over all the yrs. If you wonder why it was called that, let your mind wounder a little bit. Its a tree with a Y in it or a double top. I've seen guys split a 24 inch log tree right down middle, ruined it >:(

On Feb, 8, 1989, i got up at 5 am, went down to the basement to put wood in the furnace. Came up, put coffee on, then got dressed for the day. Then went out to feed the horses, it was cold and windy, i could hear the horses talking to me, feed me, feed me, water, hay, and a little oats and they were happy. Back to the house, poured a cup of coffee and headed to the bed room to get the wife up. I howled Day light in the Tamarack, were wasting time lets get this show on the road. She said something back to me :o  but she always got right up. She came out threw breakfast on, then looked out the window at the thermometer, she said it shows -25 thats not bad, is that the wind i hear, sounds pretty bad. I said, ya its windy, but we have to get this block done, i've worked on lot windier days. She says, i think we should wait and see if it dies down. I said, no were going, i'll go start the pickup. The ole Ford was stiff, it never failed me, i always ran two batteries in it. Went back in, to eat breakfast, we got lunch together, extra gloves, ect. We headed out, put the radio on, it says wind is gusting 35 mph with a -57 wind chill. I told the wife were going to pull Balsam and Spruce today. She says, ya, i shouldn't have to back up with it being this cold out. We pull on the job, i pull right up to the skidder, grab the starting fluid off the dash, jump, out walk around the skidder, gas heated working fine, the tarp is all frosted up on that side. Get up on the skidder, seats like a rock, give it a shot of starting fluid, push the starter button, turned over good, fired 2-3 times, give it another shot, try it again, she starts firing on 1 cylinder, then 2 and away it goes, then i howler, Fire in the hole. The wife on tarps it, while i fire the 034 up, get it warmed up a bit before we hit it. Then we had a cup of coffee while we planed our battle strategy.   
  We had a NW wind so i waded threw about 20 inches of snow to the far SE corner of the block. The wind was blowing snow out of the Balsams, trees were bending pretty good from the wind, it was worse then i expected.  The first tree i cut, about a 12 inch Balsam, the wind took it about 6' from the stump. It was tricky falling but fun, the wind was circling on me, i had a lot of experience with this, no problem they all went one way. It went good, i worked with the skidder helping hook, the limbs were gone by the time she hit the landing.
  About 3 we had a coffee break, the wife said she was getting cold, i said, its going so good lets make a few more drags, leave the pickup running so its warm when we quit or you have to warm up. I wanted to get 140 trees, about 25 cords, this would be a good day.   ;D       
  The last drag it was starting to get dark, i'd fell 5 further back, she was hooking them up, i needed one more tree. I saw a nice one, it was off to the side, it was right by a big Birch tree, i looked up at it, its limbs were wrapped around the Birch. I sawed in to it, i wanted to saw it off the stump, so it would slide out away from the Birch, being it was so tangled up in it. The wife was all hooked up heading up to me, i was off to the side and hard to see in the brush. So i had to walk over about 30' for her to see me, leaving the tree i had cut, remember the wind is still blowing. There was noway it should fall, i still kept an eye on it, she was getting close, so i stepped over a little more turning my back for a split second, thats when it fell on me. The wife thought she'd seen something that looked like my coat fly up in the air. So she stopped, got off to see what she'd seen, there i was under the tree, it was a miracle she didn't run over me.
  The first thing i told her was that my neck was broke, of coarse she didn't want of believe me. I couldn't move nothing, so i fugued it was a good guise. Then she cut the tree off me, i can't remember and she can't remember how she threw it off me. The closest phone is about 5 miles at Eagle Nest Lodge. I told her to shut the skidder off to see if my boy and a friend of mine were still working,  We could hear the skidder, they were about a mile away. Now i told her she had to drive over there to get help. She made it over there and my son made the run to call an ambulance to come pick me up.

So don't trust any tree, and don't fell on windy days, heres a little music ;D
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sTC_ucZfZAs&list=FLLrMZcmecJApDamempwT7kA&index=3

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FGlzEjXJL6Q&list=FLLrMZcmecJApDamempwT7kA&index=2
Third generation logger, owner operator, 30 yrs felling experience with pole skidder. I got my neck broke back in 89, left me a quad. The wife kept the job going up to 96.

thecfarm

Things do and can happen quick in the woods and any wheres in life.
Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

beenthere

I've always heard "school marm" and this is the first for "school mom".  Doesn't seem to have the right ring to it.
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

petefrom bearswamp

Lumberjack, This is the first time I paid attention to your profile.
So sorry to hear about your accident.
I didn't cut, only marked timber and didn't go into the woods when the wind was strong.
In 26 years only had 2 trees fall near me.
Sounds like your missus was a great woods partner and i assume at home too.
Pete

Kubota 8540 tractor, FEL bucket and forks, Farmi winch
Kubota 900 RTV
Polaris 570 Sportsman ATV
3 Huskies 1 gas Echo 1 cordless Echo vintage Homelite super xl12
57 acres of woodland

lumberjack48

I have to finish this,[ why ]

The Balsam should have never fell out of the Birch. It fell because of fridge cold and the high wing gusts.
Normally i would have fell the Birch with the Balsam. But do to landing room i didn't want to cut the Birch down, not knowing when i'd get back to skid it. The Birch had about 4 saw bolts in it.
While the wife spent the next month with me, my oldest boy jumped in and finished the blocks up, he was 20 at the time.
Thanks Pete, the missus is still with me, i've known her 49 yrs.
Third generation logger, owner operator, 30 yrs felling experience with pole skidder. I got my neck broke back in 89, left me a quad. The wife kept the job going up to 96.

barbender

Duane, I figured by the date that would be the story of your injury- that's a hard story to read :( On a lighter note, I didn't grow up logging, and one time working out on the paving crew one of the fellas that logged in the winter pointed out a big maple back in the woods that had a big "school marm" in it ??? I said "what in the world is a school marm?" (especially looking out in the woods?) He replied "a big ol' crotch." I'm a bit dense, so he explained to me his theory that back in the old country schoolhouse days he figured the school teachers were gals that had a hard time finding a husband cause, well, maybe they weren't the "prettiest little things." :) I guess I consider myself informed now ::)
Too many irons in the fire

MEloggah

...........orrrr, maybe they had a 'big ol' crotch' themselves?? steve_smiley

logger t

we us to use a delimbing gate we made of old iron worked good on softwood i used a old 544 jd when i firsted started i hated it traded for a old knuckle boom loader lot better and used less room good luck
loggert

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