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Skidsteer mulchers in rocky areas.

Started by Piston, October 01, 2012, 09:50:18 AM

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Piston

I'm pretty amazed at how much work a skidsteer mounted mulcher can do, in a short amount of time.  My neighbor has one and came over one day to show me how it works (he knows I'm addicted to cool equipment like that  :D) 
He took about 8 large trees worth of brush, and mulched it up into almost nothing in a very short amount of time.  It got me to thinking though, how do those mulchers do when there are a lot of rocks in the ground? 

Will the rocks tear up the teeth?  Or are the teeth designed to chew up rocks as well?  He said each tooth is close to $100 dollars a piece, that could get pretty expensive if you run into an unseen boulder just below ground level  :o

What about in frozen ground?  Can they mulch trees and brush a couple inches into the frost?  Does anyone on here run one? 
-Matt
"What the Lion is to the Cat the Mastiff is to the Dog, the noblest of the family; he stands alone, and all others sink before him. His courage does not exceed his temper and generosity, and in attachment he equals the kindest of his race."

beenthere

QuoteCan they mulch trees and brush a couple inches into the frost?

I'd think keeping them out of the dirt (and rocks) would be the better way to go. Just mulch brush and small trees.
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

pigpen

I demoed one for the dealer a few years back, they are sweet! As far as rocks, they don't like them at all, but as always, if the operator is paying attention you usually don't take out but one or two in a hit. The smaller ones like 1" aren't so bad. As far as the frost, they will chew through it but it soaks a lot of horse power up... They have some sort of carbide teeth so sand and soil don't bother them much. Not sure what brand your neighbor has, but $100/tooth sounds awfully steep. The one I demoed was a F A E head I believe, at that time it was $24000 just for the head!!! I'll stick with my good ol rotary, that was spendy enough at $11000!

redprospector

I bought a Tushogg head to work in the rock we have here. It works pretty good, it has rock trencher teeth so the mulch is a little more stringy than with a FAE or Gyro-Trac. But it holds up to the rock pretty well.
I have an old Gyro-Trac 500-H with swinging hammers (cutter is like a planer). It doesn't hold up well at all in rock.
I got a Fecon last year, and I've been running the "double carbide tools", I have to say, they hold up at least as well as the Tushogg, but the "tools" (teeth) are quite a bit more expensive.
The last teeth I bought (if memory serves me correctly) was....
Tushogg $1600 a set.
Fecon $3200 a set.

Andy
1996 Timber King B-20 with 14' extension, Morgan Mini Scragg Mill, Fastline Band Scragg Mill (project), 1973 JD 440-b skidder, 2008 Bobcat T-320 with buckets, grapple, auger, Tushogg mulching head, etc., 2006 Fecon FTX-90L with Bull Hog 74SS head, 1994 Vermeer 1250 BC Chipper. A bunch of chainsaws.

Piston

I'm not sure what type mulcher my neighbor has, but I know he said it was right around 25k when he bought it.  He bought that and his ASV-100 tracked skidsteer at the same time.  Must have been a pretty penny when he walked out of that dealership! 
I might have some old pics of when he used it in my yard, I'll see if I can find any. 

Andy,
How often to you run your mulcher?  Do you find it easy to get enough work?  My neighbor has been hurting for work regarding the mulcher.  He uses his equipment a lot and stays busy, but that mulcher just sits in his field most of the time.  I know because everytime I leave my house, I stare at that lonely mulcher just begging me to come operate it  :D
-Matt
"What the Lion is to the Cat the Mastiff is to the Dog, the noblest of the family; he stands alone, and all others sink before him. His courage does not exceed his temper and generosity, and in attachment he equals the kindest of his race."

pigpen

ASV-100 huh? the man has good taste ;D thats the same exact machine I have, have had pretty good luck with it too. They have went through the roof for price though, a brand new forestry edition lists out at $92000!!!!!!   :o   I also have an RC-50 ASV, talk about a sweet heart for landscaping, its a must have!

thecfarm

I've only seen one place in Maine that used one. We was out riding and came across it. That's the only one that I have seen here. Never even see one on a trailer here being moved to a job. That would catch my eye because I could use one here.
Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

Piston

Found some pics  8)

Pigpen, Can you tell what kind of mulcher it is from the pics? 

Cfarm,
I'm not sure how far away you from Alton, NH but I'm gonna be having him come up to my land to do quite a bit of mulching.  I'm sure he'd be interested in traveling if it wasn't too far away. 

He also has a grapple for the skidsteer.  I was amazed to find out that he recently bought a tree shear as well.  The guy can clear some serious land with that setup.  He said he bought the tree shear for a big orchard clearing job that he had, he can shear up to a 12" tree  :o

I'll be sure to post some pics when I have him up my land. 



  

  

  

  

  

 
-Matt
"What the Lion is to the Cat the Mastiff is to the Dog, the noblest of the family; he stands alone, and all others sink before him. His courage does not exceed his temper and generosity, and in attachment he equals the kindest of his race."

thecfarm

No way I could afford it,even if he was next door.  :(  I will continue the way I am. I'm just about done,I think. The may I clear the more I have to mow. I"m all mowing about 5-7 acres now. Would be too many rocks for him anyways. There's alot that stick up just a few inches. My Grandparents used the pasture for a dumping ground for rocks.
Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

redprospector

Quote from: Piston on October 02, 2012, 02:47:31 AM


Andy,
How often to you run your mulcher?  Do you find it easy to get enough work?  My neighbor has been hurting for work regarding the mulcher.  He uses his equipment a lot and stays busy, but that mulcher just sits in his field most of the time.  I know because everytime I leave my house, I stare at that lonely mulcher just begging me to come operate it  :D

The last couple of years have been pretty steady. I just finished 53 acres, trying to get the firewood moved. I'm a little nervous because I don't have much on the radar right now. I do have a 300 acre job on the line, but they are getting some funding from the State Forestry, so that one is a waiting game.

Andy
1996 Timber King B-20 with 14' extension, Morgan Mini Scragg Mill, Fastline Band Scragg Mill (project), 1973 JD 440-b skidder, 2008 Bobcat T-320 with buckets, grapple, auger, Tushogg mulching head, etc., 2006 Fecon FTX-90L with Bull Hog 74SS head, 1994 Vermeer 1250 BC Chipper. A bunch of chainsaws.

woodtroll

We have been keeping the grinders busy till recent with fuels work. But that may change as the chips still burn and a hot slow burn. They have been used for brush control practices.
Seen both supertrac and fecons work well around the rocks.

Piston

Cfarm,
I know what you mean about the money, those things aren't cheap.  I think compared to hiring a cheaper way to do it (hourly) and it taking longer, vs. hiring a mulcher and it being more expensive but faster, the mulcher is the way to go.  However, of course in your situation where you are picking away at it yourself with your own equipment, it's a no brainer, do it yourself. 

A lot of people (not you) get scared away at the cost when they are considering a mulcher.  When your hiring someone to clear your land regardless (not pick away at it yourself over time) it comes down to value, at least this is the way I look at it  :D
The price of a mulcher is certainly more per hour than say a dozer and rotary cutter.  I know your not making barely any money if your only charging $100 an hour with a mulcher.  But, when you consider how much faster it is, plus the fact that your left with nothing but mulch, it really makes sense. 
Or, you could hire a dozer and tear up your land, make a mess, still have a pile of trees/brush/stumps to get rid of, and not to mention the erosion issues that can be saved by not tearing up the roots. 

I think there are a lot of advantages to using the mulcher, which of course is why I'm doing it.  However, it's certainly a lot of dough! 
I keep hoping that my neighbor would let me rent his equipment from him, but I think he is smarter than that  :D

There is a good chance he'd let me rent the skidsteer and tree shear for my land, but I don't think he'd let me rent the mulcher, he would have to spend some time teaching me to use it, plus it takes a lot of practice to get proficient with one from what I've read.   But dang that would be fun!!!  ;D
-Matt
"What the Lion is to the Cat the Mastiff is to the Dog, the noblest of the family; he stands alone, and all others sink before him. His courage does not exceed his temper and generosity, and in attachment he equals the kindest of his race."

pigpen

judging by the pic it looks to me like a loftness timber axe but hard to tell, if you could tell me what it had for knives or if it had carbide teeth would be helpful. Also if it has a flipper on the top of the roller, this is for finer grinding or open for courser grinding... hope that helps. looks like it does a nice job!

ely

we have a new machine at work, its a 148 hp track  rig with a fecon head on it. cat powered. steel/rubber tracked. so far it is a great machine and does well if you keep it out of the rocks, way better cutter head than the free swinging hammers that the seppi head uses. these are the fixed carbide teeth. very pricey though.

beenthere

Piston
How many acres are you planning/needing to clear?
Maybe you've already posted that somewhere.
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

Piston

Quote from: pigpen on October 03, 2012, 08:20:53 AM
judging by the pic it looks to me like a loftness timber axe but hard to tell, if you could tell me what it had for knives or if it had carbide teeth would be helpful. Also if it has a flipper on the top of the roller, this is for finer grinding or open for courser grinding... hope that helps. looks like it does a nice job!

I remember him telling me that he can switch the teeth around, so I'm pretty positive it's the reversable carbide teeth.


Quote from: beenthere on October 03, 2012, 09:53:27 AM
Piston
How many acres are you planning/needing to clear?
Maybe you've already posted that somewhere.
I don't have much more that I NEED to clear  ;D But I want to clear close to 5 acres.  However, not a big square 5 acre parcel.  I want to clear about 2-3 acres around the home site, and then a few different smaller clearings, around an acre each or so, more for wildlife than anything else. 
The rest I want to just thin out in certain areas. 

So far I've cleared about one acre (well, I consider the size of a football field to be close to an acre, and that's roughly what I've cleared).  I've done that with my tractor and grapple. 
-Matt
"What the Lion is to the Cat the Mastiff is to the Dog, the noblest of the family; he stands alone, and all others sink before him. His courage does not exceed his temper and generosity, and in attachment he equals the kindest of his race."

westyswoods

I hired a company to come in a few years back for clearing with a fecon. It was close to a disaster in my eyes. Talk about a mess and damage to a lot of good young trees. Fortunately the machine broke down after a couple of hours, had to leave for repairs and I've never had another.

What type of post treatment are these companies using to prevent regrowth? If not done things get much worse the following years.

I'll stick to the labor intensive cut and treat method.

Stay Safe and Be Healthy
Westy

pigpen

the timber axe had reversible knives but not sure on the reversible carbide teeth, the one I demoed didn't have reversibles that I remember... If you looked at the front of the head looking back at the machine you could easily tell which it had. The timber axe had like 6" long knives mounted horizontally in the drum, the carbide ones that I have seen have a tooth that resembles a pigs foot so to speak.

Piston

I imagine someone who didn't know what they were doing could really screw up a forest quick with one of these machines.  They can do a lot of damage very quickly.  However, in the hands of a good operater, they can also do a lot of good real quickly too.  Just like anything else, I can do a lot of damage to a forest with a chainsaw if I go in there whole hog and cut down every tree I see.   ;)
-Matt
"What the Lion is to the Cat the Mastiff is to the Dog, the noblest of the family; he stands alone, and all others sink before him. His courage does not exceed his temper and generosity, and in attachment he equals the kindest of his race."

bill m

I agree with piston. In the hands of a skilled operator they are priceless but with the wrong one it can be a disaster. I did a job about 10 years ago where a contractor went thru with an asv with a fecon head first. I came in after to cut and chip all the bigger stuff he could not cut. What a disaster! Some spots he did good but in a lot of places he ground part way through a tree than pushed it over and ground it into the dirt. I had to come in behind him to cut off and chip everything he bent over. >:(
NH tc55da Metavic 4x4 trailer Stihl and Husky saws

redprospector

Quote from: westyswoods on October 03, 2012, 06:31:47 PM
I hired a company to come in a few years back for clearing with a fecon. It was close to a disaster in my eyes. Talk about a mess and damage to a lot of good young trees. Fortunately the machine broke down after a couple of hours, had to leave for repairs and I've never had another.

What type of post treatment are these companies using to prevent regrowth? If not done things get much worse the following years.

I'll stick to the labor intensive cut and treat method.
One thing I've learned in this business is that different regions require different treatment. I don't know how they are treating regen in your area, here is mostly conifers so regen isn't from the stump.
I'm sorry you got someone who didn't know what they were doing when you hired a mulcher, but that can happen in any industry. I've hired bad carpenters, and I hired a mechanic one time that made me want to cry.  :D

Andy
1996 Timber King B-20 with 14' extension, Morgan Mini Scragg Mill, Fastline Band Scragg Mill (project), 1973 JD 440-b skidder, 2008 Bobcat T-320 with buckets, grapple, auger, Tushogg mulching head, etc., 2006 Fecon FTX-90L with Bull Hog 74SS head, 1994 Vermeer 1250 BC Chipper. A bunch of chainsaws.

bill m

I didn't hire the guy with the mulcher, he was hired by the land owner. This was an early successional habitat job. One of the tough parts about this job was that we both had to give a fixed price before any work was done. I did include a disclaimer in my quote because I did not know what extra work there might be. I looked at it with the land owner after it was mowed and we both agreed he did not do what he claimed he could. I did get paid extra but it was still no fun. Oh, he sold his machine and is not in business any more. Post cut treatment is mostly mowing once every 2 years.
NH tc55da Metavic 4x4 trailer Stihl and Husky saws

Piston

That's good you were smart enough to include a disclaimer in your original quote.
-Matt
"What the Lion is to the Cat the Mastiff is to the Dog, the noblest of the family; he stands alone, and all others sink before him. His courage does not exceed his temper and generosity, and in attachment he equals the kindest of his race."

redprospector

Quote from: bill m on October 05, 2012, 08:11:12 AM
I didn't hire the guy with the mulcher, he was hired by the land owner. This was an early successional habitat job. One of the tough parts about this job was that we both had to give a fixed price before any work was done. I did include a disclaimer in my quote because I did not know what extra work there might be. I looked at it with the land owner after it was mowed and we both agreed he did not do what he claimed he could. I did get paid extra but it was still no fun. Oh, he sold his machine and is not in business any more. Post cut treatment is mostly mowing once every 2 years.

Most guy's like that don't stay in business long. But they generally stay in business long enough to give the rest of us a bad name to have to overcome.

Andy
1996 Timber King B-20 with 14' extension, Morgan Mini Scragg Mill, Fastline Band Scragg Mill (project), 1973 JD 440-b skidder, 2008 Bobcat T-320 with buckets, grapple, auger, Tushogg mulching head, etc., 2006 Fecon FTX-90L with Bull Hog 74SS head, 1994 Vermeer 1250 BC Chipper. A bunch of chainsaws.

bill m

Most of the stuff he was mowing was Buckthorn and Hawthorn. Didn't really mulch it up very good. It was almost a daily chore fixing flat front tires on my tractor.
NH tc55da Metavic 4x4 trailer Stihl and Husky saws

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