STIHL 064 troubles

[Cub]

Hi, I recently bought a used burned up 064. I bought piston and cylinder. Put new oil seals in. Put it all together and ran it for a few minutes just to adjust the carb. Then I didn't use it for a few months. The other day it was pretty warm and humid when I went to cut. Took it to the woods with me. Cut down a 30 inch on the stump beech tree. Bucked 2 logs and it died. Wouldn't restart. Grabbed a different saw and finished. Cut down a few others and went back an hour later and it started again. Cool I thought. Used it for 15 minutes and died and no start again. So anybody have any ideas what it could be?

[HolmenTree]

Sounds like your ignition module is breaking down.
Easy fix but first we need pictures and more information about your 064. Most importantly the serial number .

[Cub]

Thanks. I figure that's what the problem is also. I'll try to get a few pictures tonight and post them with a serial number

[ladylake]

First pull the muff and look at the piston.   Steve

[Cub]

Ladylake what am I looking for when I do that? Cylinder and piston are brand new. 

[Ianab]

Ladylake what am I looking for when I do that? Cylinder and piston are brand new.

Make sure they still look brand new. Hopefully they are, but you should double check. 

[thecfarm]

There was a reason it was burned up. Could of been an air leak in it.

[ladylake]

 If the saw is lean for any reason it only takes 1 cut to burn up a piston and cylinder.   Steve

[Cub]

I will look into that. Hopefully tonight I will have time to look. Thanks guys. 

[Gary Davis]

make sure it was put in in the right direction the arrow on the piston is to point to the front or back don't remember which 

[Cub]

 
Piston and cylinder look brand new  serial number 112553003. Best I can tell on the number anyways

[Cub]

Piston was put in correctly. I double triple quadruple checked which way to put it in when I did it. This is the 4th saw I've rebuilt. The rest all run great. New intake boot new impulse line new fuel line and filter when I rebuilt it. 

[HolmenTree]

Looking good Cub . Looks like you have a early dog leg coil. Let me go into my notes and I'll get right back.

[HolmenTree]

Piston and cylinder look brand new  serial number 112553003. Best I can tell on the number anyways

Cub, 
Ok you have a 1122 400 1311 three hole dog leg ignition module on your early 064. These modules had a high rate of failure.
Find a universal mount Iida #0000 400 1300 these unlimited modules were pretty well standard on most Stihls from 034 up after 1984. Probably won't find a new OEM one but lots of good new aftermarket available. Or find a used one that works.
Don't worry the 2 screw hole 1300 will bolt up fine , just make sure you have .010 gap between the flywheel magnet area.

Oh  BTW before you get into the module, check the fuel tank vent. Could be plugged and fuel flow is shutting down after a short run in the wood .Loosen the fuel cap when she starts to die.

[Cub]

Thank you guys all for your help and ideas. Sounds like the coil is the issue to me. I'll try to find something when I get a chance and keep you posted. Any suggestions as to where to get an aftermarket one? I don't want to get a cheapo and it die on me again. Thank you 

[HolmenTree]

Just google it now that I found you the part # :

[ZeroJunk]

There's a zillion 400-1300's on eBay.

[Cub]

Found an oem coil on eBay. 100 bucks. Should be here by Friday. Dealer wanted 149 bucks. 

[Cub]

Ok. Update. Got the 0000-400-1300 coil. When I went to install only 1 bolt hole lined up with the case? I can't possibly run it this way. Wouldn't after time vibration move the coil around and possibly change the gap or collide with the flywheel? Any help would be appreciated. Thanks in advance 

[Mad Professor]

The universal coil won't fit the most early 064s with dogleg coil, besides the dogleg bosch coil they also made some bosch coils with two mounting holes that line up with the upper two mounts on your case, I have one of those.  The bosch coils are NLA.

There were some early 064 cases made that had a 4th mounting hole that would line up with the more common coils, but came with the bosch coil(s).

There are two options I know of : 1) make an adapter to use the common coil.  I've seen a few versions of these. Use the top mount and make an adapter for the middle one. 2) Find a dogleg coil from a 046, they supposedly bolt up and run fine, but are hard to find

[Mad Professor]

Here is an example of an adapter, courtesy of Chris from Australia.



 

[Cub]

Awesome. Thank you for the picture. I will have to make something up soon as I get a chance. 

[Mad Professor]

Chainsaw forum at Arboristsite has lots of stuff on the early 064/bosch coils.

[HolmenTree]

Ok. Update. Got the 0000-400-1300 coil. When I went to install only 1 bolt hole lined up with the case? I can't possibly run it this way. Wouldn't after time vibration move the coil around and possibly change the gap or collide with the flywheel? Any help would be appreciated. Thanks in advance

Sorry there buddy.
I should have cross referenced your 064's serial# 112553003 for age ( but you weren't that certain the # was right).
I took for granted your 1122 400 1311 coil on your 064 was original making it a newer 064 to accept the 0000 400 1300 coil I suggested.

If your 064's serial # is correct you have a early first year 1986 064.
I have two 1st year 1986 064s and their #'s are newer then yours.
116468370 and 117584561.
That 1122 400 1311 dogleg Lida coil on your 064 was first installed on 064/066 in 1994 starting with serial# 131067164.

I never did it myself but some reports say the 0000 400 1300 coil you just bought will fit with 2 screws if you flip it upside down and put about a 3 inch longer spark plug cable on it.
Or do the adapter modification Mad Professor showed you.
I got a 0000 400 1300 on my 1991 066 Mag that bolts up just fine and is over 26 years old and still works great. Same with my 064 coil.

Here's my 1986 064 with 2 screw dogleg  Bosch 1122 400 1300 coil that your 064 should be running.

[Cub]

Mad professor, I read a lot over there about all the coils n flywheel combos. Lots of info. Thank you for the info. 
Holmentree, no worries buddy. You were right I wasn't 100% sure that was the serial number. I tried flipping the coil upside down. It just about fits that way but not quite. So your saying the 1122-400-1300 is what my saw should have? Because I found 1 of those too. Thank you guys for all your help. Lots of knowledge 

[HolmenTree]

Yep the 1122 400 1300 coil is what my first year 064 has.
Check that serial # again...that is the info we need.
But you already have a good coil what you just bought . Do the simple adapter mod pictured above with a bent piece of strap steel and 2 screws.
.010" gap between the flywheel magnet and coil.

[Cub]

I'll check the number again when I get a chance. It's pretty hard to see. Yes I'll just make up a adapter bracket and use the coil I bought. Haven't had a chance to get after it. Thank you again for the info. 

[Mad Professor]

Mad professor, I read a lot over there about all the coils n flywheel combos. Lots of info. Thank you for the info.
Holmentree, no worries buddy. You were right I wasn't 100% sure that was the serial number. I tried flipping the coil upside down. It just about fits that way but not quite. So your saying the 1122-400-1300 is what my saw should have? Because I found 1 of those too. Thank you guys for all your help. Lots of knowledge

Unless that is NOS bosch coil, it will crap the bed, even then they die early on, same with the 7!@#%^&* they put in the 056, but there is a cheap fix for those. How long who knows?  
The adapter for a universal coil might be best bet.  I think those have a retard for starting unlike early 064 coils.

[Cub]

Rigged up a bracket tonight. Should work. Didn't have any wood in the yard to try it out. But will go find a tree to kill tomorrow in the daylight. Thanks for all your help guys!!! 

[Cub]

Alright. Tested out the saw. Cut down a 22 inch white ash. Saw ran great for the notch and back cut. Once the tree was down I limbed it then went back to the butt and started piece cutting 24 inch long blocks. About half way through the fourth cut the saw stumbled all over itself and the only way I could keep it running was hold it wide open and it would just barely idle and it smoked a lot. So I let it die gave it a minute and fired back up and made 4 more cuts and it did the same. Let it die again. Waited a minute fired up made 2 more cuts and it stumbled again. I let it die but this time when I fired it up it and held it wide open it just stumbled. So I just stopped grabbed the 440 and finished the tree. Any ideas? I'm thinking carb issue?

[HolmenTree]

That's why I hate doing saw diagnosis over the interenet :

You said smoking alot , it's possible there is a leak in the crankcase gasket at the oil tank ......
Do a proper leak test for both the carb and crankcase.
Is the muffler screen plugged.... 

[Cub]

Anything is possible I guess. I will have to take it to the dealer to have tests done. I don't have the tools for that. Muffler screen is not plugged. Brand new dual port cover. I'll get it to the dealer n see what they say. 

[Mad Professor]

Get a mightyvac for ~ $50.  Won't be much more than a dealer visit.  Do your own pres/vac testing.

[Cub]

So update on the 064. Haven't had a need for it since the last post until a few weeks ago. I knew I had problems with it so I took it to the dealer to have them check it out. They through a carb kit in it fuel filter and tuned the carb. Said everything else is good. So once I got it back I used it tge next day and ran a few tanks of gas through it. It ran great. Following weekend I used it again and after I dropped a few big trees it started stumbling again just like before. I quit using it for the day. Got home and tried getting it going. It started but I couldn't get the carb adjusted to a happy place to idle good accelerate good and run good at wot. Took it to the woods with me today to try it again and it wouldn't even start today.  Not sure what else to look at. It has the walboro wj-6 carb on it. 

[Mad Professor]

Using a new stihl universal coil w/adapter?

1) pressure/vac test

2)  check all wires from coil/switch for shorts, coil body for good ground to cyl

3) check carb insides/clean it, fuel line + filter

[motzingg]

FUN, these are the kind of problems that make people hate working on saws, trimmers, etc.  :D 

I think going down the diagnosis tree, everyone right away jumped over the ignition thing because usually heat related problems are from a coil that is on its way out. 

I would start by switching the coils back to back and seeing if the problem starts back up or gets worse with the old one.  Try to find a test that can reliably turn it 'on' and repeat the test cold, hot, under different conditions. 

I dunno the design of that carb but if it has a rubber check valve it it, that could be the problem.  They will start puking fuel like crazy into the intake, only run wide open, and be blowing a lot of wet unburned fuel exhaust/black goo out the exhaust when that happens, then eventually die. 

I have a BG86 Stihl blower that i rebuilt the carb in, finally threw in the towel and bought a new carb yesterday, rebuild kit didn't fix it, pumping way too much fuel in.  

[motzingg]

Ah, just re-read the last post.... maybe that coil bracket moved? 

You say you got a few tanks of gas through it before it conked out, sounds like something else major fail.  Timing slipping for one reason or another. 

[Cub]

Mad professor. Yes new coil with adapter. Dealer put new filter and carb kit in it. I thought maybe he pressure/vac tested it because he said everything else was good. Inside of the carb was a little dirty and pump was a little stiff. Maybe he didn't test it. I dropped it off at the dealer to look at again on Monday because he said if I still have problems to bring it back. Said he would look at it Tuesday but I haven't heard from him yet. Motzingg. I know the feeling. Had that on an 026 I worked on for a friend. Rebuild the carb. Still wasn't right so he brought it back. I put a different carb on n it's still running strong. That was 4 years ago. I think it is a carb issue because even when stone cold it won't start on choke. I have to unchoke it and hold throttle wide open and pull a few times then I can get it to run. But if I continue to hold it wot it doesn't have the power to turn the chain. Just stumbles and smokes like a locomotive. Once I let off the throttle it dies. Thank you guys for all your input and ideas. I really appreciate all the knowledge on here. Hopefully it gets figured out soon. I need my big saw!! ;D

[Furist Shervice]

Mad professor. Yes new coil with adapter. Dealer put new filter and carb kit in it. I thought maybe he pressure/vac tested it because he said everything else was good. Inside of the carb was a little dirty and pump was a little stiff. Maybe he didn't test it. I dropped it off at the dealer to look at again on Monday because he said if I still have problems to bring it back. Said he would look at it Tuesday but I haven't heard from him yet. Motzingg. I know the feeling. Had that on an 026 I worked on for a friend. Rebuild the carb. Still wasn't right so he brought it back. I put a different carb on n it's still running strong. That was 4 years ago. I think it is a carb issue because even when stone cold it won't start on choke. I have to unchoke it and hold throttle wide open and pull a few times then I can get it to run. But if I continue to hold it wot it doesn't have the power to turn the chain. Just stumbles and smokes like a locomotive. Once I let off the throttle it dies. Thank you guys for all your input and ideas. I really appreciate all the knowledge on here. Hopefully it gets figured out soon. I need my big saw!! ;D

Sorry to wake up an old forum. But cub!! 3 1/2 years later, I'm having the same exact problem that you're mentioning here. Did you ever figure it out??? This has been a 6 month battle for me. FULL rebuild.
Thanks!

[beenthere]

Furist
Welcome to the Forestry Forum. 
Click on Cub and send a PM. Been a few months since Cub has been active.

[Cub]

I had given up on it. But if I remember correctly 2 of the bolts that hold the cylinder down to the crankcase stripped and it was sucking air. My son took the saw drilled out the holes in the crankcase put helicoils in and it still don't start. Now I believe there's a carb issue because it pours fuel everywhere when trying to start. We haven't touched it since. Also somewhere in the "fixing" of it I realized that the groove on the flywheel had gotten messed up so it was out of whack. I found a used flywheel and then the saw ran good until those bolts came loose. 

[FORDOWNER96]

 

 

 so I hope this post works. Would anyone know if this coil is correct or what it is? It's on a stihl 064.