Conc Rot and White Spec

[Gilman]

Anyone have information on conc rot or white spec in fir?

Thanks in advance,

Gilman

[SwampDonkey]

Gilman, you might find some info on identification in the BC Cruising Manual Appendix section. It's a 36 megabyte PDF file. I can't download such a document because of dialup, well it would take 1/2 a day. :D I'm sure there is info there on defect and such with photos.

http://www.for.gov.bc.ca/hva/manuals/cruising/

The coast appraissal manual may have more info

http://www.for.gov.bc.ca/hva/manuals/coast/

[Gilman]

Thanks! 

[Frank_Pender]

David, what is it that you are wanting to know? :P

[Gilman]

More than I do now.  ;D

How about I give you a call?

[extrapolate85]

Conk (Fomes Pini) is a serious defect for DF. It is generally found in the portion of the tree where dead branch stubs occur, 8-24' up from the stump, but can occur anywhere. Aside from finding a conk, a scaler will look for a brown or reddish crescent shape stain (or white-speck, if it is present), and swollen knots. Even if the log-ends look good, a swollen knot will provoke a scaler to chop (with a hatchet or a spud-stick); if the scaler finds evidence of conk (it has the colour and consistency of horse manure) in the knot with no other indications on the log-ends, they will generally deduct all the log volume above the conk for 6' and below the conk for 8' (on the west-side of Cascades) and up 4' and down 6' if on the east-side of the Cascades. For big old growth, the conk can run much further, but may only take a portion of the log volume, e.g., up 10' and down 16' but only for half the volume (so a 13' length deduction might be taken). Despite the fact that white speck will often make stud grade or core stock for plywood, the scaling rules dictate to cull any log with more than 2/3rds of its length affected by conk (it may make the stud grade or #3 dimension, but stud or dimension lumber customers don't like it and it soaks up a lot of glue when used for plywood core). You might check out the following: http://stevens.wsu.edu/Forestry/title3/SCALIN_1.pdf#search=%22matt%20fonseca%20log%20scaling%22 (see pages 83-91). It will give you an idea of what to look for.

[Gilman]

So Conc rot & white spec are the same fungus?

The swollen knot is interesting, the log that I found white spec in had a swollen knot.  I'll have to take an axe to the next covered knot I see.

Thanks again.

[SwampDonkey]

Was wonder'n how ya made out.   ??? : :P

[extrapolate85]

Conk rot and white-speck are one in the same. It is also called red-ring rot and snoose rot. A hatchet, axe or spud-stick is the best way to find it. It is a good idea to keep in mind that it won't show in the butt-end of the log very prominently (conk does not like moisture, so stays in heartwood, and tends not to show much on the stump-cut even though it can be a mess of whitespeck 6' up the tree). It used to be common to find stands of old-growth DF from the coast range that would run 50% defect on-the-stump and 30% defect in the log yard. 

[Gilman]

The old growth conk (thanks for fixing my spelling) is interesting too.

I had a chance to saw for one of Frank's many friends (not a student   ;D) that has a MD mill.  I was cutting old growth redwood, with my band mill,  for his new house and he got too busy to cut his studs.  He hired me to run his MD mill to cut some old growth logs with his mill and I ran across an old growth log that was about 16' long, 4-5' diameter that was 100% white spec.  I ended up cutting it into blocking.  :'(

So first off if you see a conk growing on a log, it has conk rot?

Second it's not alway in the butt cut.  That's good to know.

Third, what's a, "spud-stick?"

[SwampDonkey]

Sometimes a stand of older aspen will be full of false tinder conk and it sends out hard, white bellied toad stools at old branch knots. The trees may live for years with the conk, but eventually turn into culverts that may bust up when feld or could collapse when felling because of the heavier solid tops weighing down on a shell for a but log. I'm not so sure conk doesn't like moisture though. The heart wood (part of the xylem) is where the water is transported up the tree, although it (water transport) may not be as efficient as in the whiter portion of the xylem between the heart and the cambium. But, all fungus to my knowledge requires moisture to survive, develop and grow.

[Furby]

Spud stick: same as ice spud or scrapper ???

[extrapolate85]

To answer your questions:

1. If you see a conk in a Douglas fir, yes, there is probably a 98% certainty that there is substantial loss from the rot (as I mentioned in the guidelines in the previous message from me). Chances are, however, that the fruiting body of the conk will not be present on the log (they get knocked off from skidding and handling). The scaler will use stain in the end of the log or swollen knots as a guide. Finding the fungus-matter in the knots will confirm that conk is present.

2. A spud stick is a pole (usually with inch increments printed on it) with a sharp spud on the end (a chopping end similar to a cold chisel, but sharper). In the past Spud sticks were also used for measuring diameters, particularly in the days of scaling logs rafted on the water, but now are uses mainly for spudding knots and chopping log-ends to check for decay. The scaler in the link following has a spud-stick tucked under his arm in the event that he sees something suspicious: http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/neighbors/shelton/art/scene6.jpg

3. As for conk and moisture; no doubt moisture is required (conk does not attack dead trees), but it appears that there is too much moisture at the bottom end of most stump-cut logs, or for that matter, in sapwood (it does not occur in sapwood). I've seen many logs with very little if any sign in the butt, but completely blown-out 8' up.

[Gilman]

Thanks Extra