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Author Topic: ID? Several of these in woods behind my house. Check out the leaf projections...  (Read 1521 times)

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Offline bobznew

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In north-central Georgia.  1000' elevation.  Woods behind my house.  Several of these trees. Last leaf image shows some strange growth-like projections from the tops of the leaves.  

Any ideas on species?  And what is that growth? 



 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Offline LeeB

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Looks like elm to me.
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Offline bobznew

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Looks like elm to me.
Just plain American Elm?

Offline WDH

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Is the top of the leaf rough like sandpaper or smooth?  If rough, it is winged elm.  American elm is smooth.
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Offline caveman

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If I had to choose based on the pictures, I would lean towards winged elm for a few reasons, the leaf texture as WDH mentioned, the really short petioles, and the width of the leaves compared to their leaves' length.  Most of the time, the American elms are a bit wider across the middle than winged elm leaves of the same length.  
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Offline Don P

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Leaf galls.
our elm leaves tend to look more woppyjawed than those at the base.

Offline WDH

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Woppyjawed.  That is a new botanical term that I have not used :D.

It is almost certainly winged elm.
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Offline Don P

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Yeah, I may have misspelled that  ;D
Have you heard that tree called a wahoo?

Offline WDH

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Yes.  Euonymus atropurpureus.  I have never seen it, though.
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Offline bluthum

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The way I learned it slippery elm [U. rubra] is always rough on the upper leaf surface [also uneven at the leaf base] and U. americana can be either hairy or  not hairy. U. americana leaves are  always even at the base.

Winged elm U. alata] and water elm [not even an Ulmus]  leaves leaves are narrow, more lanceolate than the bigger elms. 

If that tree were in my stomping grounds I'd call it a winged elm    although in early growth stage the leaf width can be a fooler. It seems like faster growing winged elms have less obvious corky growth on the small limbs but that's a rare problem here in the Ozarks.

They can be a mean little weed tree and some 1" in diameter can have 30 annular rings. I poked one of the stout little twigs on one I had girdled well into my eye once but you gotta love antibiotics sometimes. 

The more common local name here is uh, something like "urine elm" though not exactly.

Offline WDH

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There is also cedar elm that grows in parts of Arkansas, Louisiana, and East Texas.  Ulmus crassifolia. Very closely related to winged elm. 
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Offline bluthum

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In Arkansas that one is limited to [mostly] the south east part of the state and doesn't grow in the mountainous parts.  

Offline TKehl

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I've read that the American elm was the only Elm with alternating light/dark layers in the bark.  I can confirm that Slippery Elm does not have this pattern in the bark (or not as pronounced), but not sure about Winged etc. Elm.

Any input from the resident gurus on this?
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Offline WDH

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Yes, that is correct.  Called striations in the rhytidome .  I get in trouble for using big words, but this time it is your fault, TKehl.  You set me up for it :)
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Offline Don P

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striations in the rhytidome
I'm still coming to grips with wahoo and hearts a bustin being the same or kissing cousins and here we are whipping somebody in a stadium. Do tell, what is the rhytidome?

Offline Magicman

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He could have just said that it was bark.....but he didn't.  :D
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Offline WDH

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I told you that it was TKehl's fault.  He started the whole mess.
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Offline petefrom bearswamp

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Not familiar with winged Elm, only Red (slippery) and american.
Havent heard of Wahoo
Red elm split pretty easily, not so American.
elm that smelled like a certain bodily liquid was american in my area growing up but is very scarce now.
The is a huge one about 7 miles from me on a client's property about 60" in diameter but I havent checked on it in about 2 yrs to see if is still among the living.
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Offline bluthum

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Yeah but funnin' aside this thread gives one perfect example of why big words work. The name wahoo is commonly used for 2 totally different woody plants that grow sometimes near each other. They each also have many other common names. Total confusion.

But Ulmus alata is the same plant every time. Ditto Euonymus atropurpureus, even if it is hard to spell.

Offline WDH

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You are spot on, Sir.
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Offline Don P

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No doubt about it. I try to pound a little more latin into my pea each year. Pretty sure I'll just end up with a split pea though :D. The reason I was asking about wahoo is we had a mason some years ago asking if I knew of a tree called a wahoo, the closest I could come up with from the description was winged elm, well obviously that ain't it, what is the other wahoo?

Offline caveman

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Most winged elms have "alata" wings or corky projections on the stems and twigs.  The only wahoo that I'm familiar with is a pelagic denizen of the deep.
Caveman

Offline WDH

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Pelagic denizen.

I ain't the only sesquipedalian :D
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Offline LeeB

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Are you required to register with the local law enforcement because of that?  :D
'98 LT40HDD/Lombardini, Case 580L, Cat D4C, JD 3032 tractor, JD 5410 tractor, Husky 346, 372 and 562XP's. Stihl MS180 and MS361, 1998 and 2006 3/4 Ton 5.9 Cummins 4x4's, 1989 Dodge D100 w/ 318, and a 1966 Chevy C60 w/ dump bed.

Offline WDH

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Offline TKehl

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WDH, thanks for the confirmation and vocabulary lesson!  

Would have replied sooner, but was laughing too hard at this, and got distracted relaying it to my wife.  ;D
Lucas 6-13+slabber, Mr. Sawmill bandmill, orange chainsaws, JD SSL, Case Backhoe, farm tractors, trailers, and 150ish acres of trees.  Fledgling woodshop with CNC router, laser engraver, Woodmaster 712, and a Berlin 108 moulder (project).  Oh, and a lovely (patient) wife and four offbearers.

Offline caveman

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Danny, I told my mother what you implied that I was and she said that as long as you did not call me a loquacious sesquipedalian that it was okay.  
Caveman

Offline WDH

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No, you are not overtly loquacious. 
Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5640SU, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com


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