New saw requirements

TACOMATODD · February 16, 2019, 08:54:35 AM

OK. I'm being picky. I want another saw. I have a very good 372XP that I am extremely happy with, but there are times when it seems a bit unwieldy for the places that I need it to go, as in I am getting tired after the main job is done. The saw, for requirements needs to be the following: 40-50cc, no autotune, but m-tronic seems reliable, 2 bar nuts, pro saw, rim sprocket, adjustable bar oil output, old school gas and oil caps, 12-16". The brand is not a deal killer, as long as it seems reliable. Husky or Stihl is awesome, but a friend of mine has an Echo cs400 that I repaired for him, and that unit really got me to thinking about this. I am perplexed and I don't see anything that has the things I want because I can't find anyone that can tell me. I don't mind going 50 miles for one, as I will do my own maintenance/repairs and don't have a lot of faith in warranty because it USUALLY does not mean much. However.... I would like some opinions and experience and knowledge. And I tune my own carb.Thoughts?

lxskllr · February 16, 2019, 09:20:35 AM

I love my cs400. Light, nimble, and cheap. The biggest downsides are the bar, and oil/fuel fill caps. I recently got a broad nosed WoodlandPro bar I'm anxious to try, and it looks like a Tsumura bar is available for it also, which will likely be my next bar if there is a next bar. To fill the oil and fuel, I have a gearoil bottle, and a Nalgene fuel bottle. Adds an extra step to the whole process, but nothing difficult. All in all, it's hard to beat for $300. Oh, and it also has a spur sprocket, not rim. I'd prefer rim myself, but that's not a deal breaker, especially at that price point.

If you didn't have an issue with flippy caps(I love them), I'd suggest a 261cm if you wanted to spend a lot of money. I've never actually used one, but if it's like my 362cm but lighter, I'm sure I'd love it.

realzed · February 16, 2019, 10:09:29 AM

From your 'want' list - I had you perfectly pegged for a new 261 - but if the caps are that important I guess not.. I too think they are great by the way and I love mine (261 and caps)- but each to their own I guess!

Fishnuts2 · February 16, 2019, 11:02:06 AM

Husqvarna 346XP.
Nice ones are still out there, and it fills your requirements and then some!
But if you need a new saw, consider the Makita/Dolmar EA4300, same as the great little 421 Dolmar.

ladylake · February 16, 2019, 11:40:12 AM

Another vote for the CS400 Echo, $230 or so new online, way lighter than a 50cc saw, handles great, will not wear you out, when tuned right and the muffler opened they really cut. Steve

Inaotherlife · February 16, 2019, 01:42:32 PM

Stihl MS201CEM.
I got the Echo CS-361P on sale instead, which is very similar and a great little lightweight saw itself.
But the 201 has a little more power, looks a little slimmer with it's bottom mount muffler, has mag case, and a captive barnut.

I know these don't match all your criteria. About the only saw that I can think of that does is the Echo CS-501P, which I'd love to have if I didn't buy the 490 for less than half the cost.
The 501 looks real sweet though with 20% more power, captive bar nuts, aluminum front handle, translucent tank, a better chain, and decomp valve along with standard starter for lower weight and I assume a slimmer profile. Powerhead about the same weight as a 400.
ECHO CS-501P, Great Professional saw ! light-weight - YouTube

hamish · February 16, 2019, 03:57:49 PM

Autotune is reliable as can be. I have never had an autotune failure in more than a decade.
Other problems get blamed on autotune or m-tronic, neither systems are troublesome, m-tronic is version 1 autotune :-)

TACOMATODD · February 16, 2019, 04:58:55 PM

It is just that I have never read or met anyone that had any problems with mtronic, but both with autotune. Can floppy caps be replaced with more sure older style? And yes, from what I can tell the 346xp would be a home run. The cs400 was spur, not rim. If I can swap from spur to rim, I would do, but my questions to dealers about this have been met with quizzical stares. Like I said: I am picky. I guess I want to much. My wife thinks I do!

HAHAHAHA

lxskllr · February 16, 2019, 08:39:18 PM

You got me looking, since I'm kinda interested in it myself. A little tough to find, but it looks like Oregon and GB(Do they make their own stuff?) may have a rim sprocket system that'll fit the cs400. Comes in .325, and 3/8. I'd want to research it more before I committed to a saw assuming it could be turned into a rim drive. Two questions I have...

They come in 7 tooth only. Would that be too big since the original is 6 tooth?

I didn't see any reference to 3/8lp. Are the 3/8 & 3/8lp interchangeable on a rim drive system?

A link to GB...

Centre Drive Chainsaw Sprocket : Echo Sprocket ( Centre Drive ) - 7 Tooth 3/8" Pitch

Allar · February 17, 2019, 02:45:29 AM

Without any experience with Echos, i'd say get a echo, just because they come with 5 year warranty.
Flippy caps are the best!!!

TACOMATODD · February 17, 2019, 07:11:51 AM

I've just read to many bad stories about the luck that people have had with the flippy caps. I know from experience, old style is much more secure. Set in my ways, aren't I? Maybe a Lil honery too! I am who I am. Besides, if you can't be who you are, who can you be?

ladylake · February 17, 2019, 07:26:16 AM

Quote from: Inaotherlife on February 16, 2019, 01:42:32 PM
Stihl MS201CEM.
I got the Echo CS-361P on sale instead, which is very similar and a great little lightweight saw itself.
But the 201 has a little more power, looks a little slimmer with it's bottom mount muffler, has mag case, and a captive barnut.

I know these don't match all your criteria. About the only saw that I can think of that does is the Echo CS-501P, which I'd love to have if I didn't buy the 490 for less than half the cost.
The 501 looks real sweet though with 20% more power, captive bar nuts, aluminum front handle, translucent tank, a better chain, and decomp valve along with standard starter for lower weight and I assume a slimmer profile. Powerhead about the same weight as a 400.
ECHO CS-501P, Great Professional saw ! light-weight - YouTube

I know the published weight is real close for those 2 saws but on a good balance scale ready to cut full of fuel and oil the CS400 weighs 13# even and a CS 490 500 or 501 weighs 14 3/4 # which is a lot of weight for a little extra cutting speed. Out on sawing jobs I've sold quite a few CS400 saws after people use them and most were running Stihl and Husky. Steve

John Mc · February 17, 2019, 08:36:32 AM

Quote from: lxskllr on February 16, 2019, 08:39:18 PMI didn't see any reference to 3/8lp. Are the 3/8 & 3/8lp interchangeable on a rim drive system?

No, they are not interchangeable. 3/8 LP chain needs a 3/8 LP sprocket.

Quote from: TACOMATODD on February 17, 2019, 07:11:51 AMI've just read to many bad stories about the luck that people have had with the flippy caps. I know from experience, old style is much more secure.

There are several different designs of so-called "flippy caps" around out there. I hated Stihl's original design. I haven't looked at new saws in a while, but thought I heard they had changed the design since that original one came out. Husqvarna's flip up tank cap is a different design as well - it's another one I haven't looked at, but if I'm not mistaken, it's a flip-up handle to unscrew the cap, not a flip open cap. I've not really heard any complaints about those. (Hopefuly someone who has had a closer look at these will comment with a better description). My point is, don;t write off potentially very good saws for your needs based on one outdated/failed design that may not be an issue with currently sold saws.

lxskllr · February 17, 2019, 08:44:39 AM

Stihl's system is a camlock style. You flip the lever up, then about a half turn to remove/install it. Possible failure points I see are the lever breaking off(Not likely unless you're careless), and the seal failing after awhile. On a screw system, you just tighten a little more as the seal wears. The camlock has limited adjustment, so I could see it getting to the point where it doesn't seal properly. I haven't used the system long term, but right now, if I have to buy new caps every 5-10 years, it's a good tradeoff for not having to use a scrench to remove caps.

lxskllr · February 17, 2019, 08:47:51 AM

Quote from: John Mc on February 17, 2019, 08:36:32 AM
Quote from: lxskllr on February 16, 2019, 08:39:18 PMI didn't see any reference to 3/8lp. Are the 3/8 & 3/8lp interchangeable on a rim drive system?

No, they are not interchangeable. 3/8 LP chain needs a 3/8 LP sprocket.

Thanks. I wasn't sure if a rim drive changed any variables with that. Looks like a rim might out for the cs400 unless one wants to switch to .325, which I don't at this point. A 7 point rim /might/ be doable, especially one shorter bars, but adding full height 3/8 would be too much for a small saw.

John Mc · February 17, 2019, 08:49:16 AM

Quote from: lxskllr on February 17, 2019, 08:44:39 AMI haven't used the system long term, but right now, if I have to buy new caps every 5-10 years, it's a good tradeoff for not having to use a scrench to remove caps.

I have the old-style caps on all my saws. In all my years of sawing, I've only had to use a scrench to remove caps twice. Once was on a saw owned by someone else, which had not been run in 5+ years. The other was when getting my saw back from someone who had borrowed it. If you don't overtighten, it doesn't take much to remove it.

lxskllr · February 17, 2019, 09:00:16 AM

I tend to overtorque everything. That's been an issue my whole life. The oil cap gives me the most problem cause the seals are slippery, and it doesn't take much to go too far.

Allar · February 17, 2019, 10:21:35 AM

As far as i know, the flip cap issue is related to stihl chainsaws.
There are no issues with the husqvarna flip caps, infact everyone loves them.

realzed · February 17, 2019, 10:47:09 AM

Quote from: lxskllr on February 17, 2019, 08:44:39 AM
Stihl's system is a camlock style. You flip the lever up, then about a half turn to remove/install it. Possible failure points I see are the lever breaking off(Not likely unless you're careless), and the seal failing after awhile. On a screw system, you just tighten a little more as the seal wears. The camlock has limited adjustment, so I could see it getting to the point where it doesn't seal properly. I haven't used the system long term, but right now, if I have to buy new caps every 5-10 years, it's a good tradeoff for not having to use a scrench to remove caps.

I had a MS290 that had them and they never gave me slightest bit of trouble in over 10 years of use. Main thing is, just like the screw on caps - to maintain the 'o' ring sealing area by keeping it free of crap and debris which also keeps the fuel system a lot cleaner and ditto for the oil tank cap as well.
All of which are good ideas for trouble and leak-free performance of any screw-on variety as goes without (or should) needing to be said!
Our old 026 and most I had available at work previously over decades, all had the screw on caps and it always seemed a tool to tighten or loosen them was never close at hand when you most needed it.. not ever the case with the flip caps certainly, and you could always tell where models with screw caps had been stored from the 'trail' on the floor or the hints of gas smell!
Hard to imagine anyone being 'ham-fisted' enough to bugger a flip cap - but I guess Murphy's Law says there are some who can negate any of the rules of good common sense, given sufficient time and effort..
All I can say is - I've had and seen lots of leaky screw on caps but never had anything drip or leak from my own flip versions in comparison!

mike_belben · February 17, 2019, 10:53:54 AM

I have never poured bar oil or fuel down my driver side leg with thread in caps, but i have 2 ugly pairs of doubleknee pants now from cracked stihl flippy caps. I hate them.

346xp or 026 would fit the bill. Early ms260 pro may have threaded caps.

Inaotherlife · February 17, 2019, 01:49:05 PM

So far I've resisted the urge to buy an old 024 or 026 at what looked to be pretty good prices. Because I know that I really don't enjoy having to work on a saw any more than I have to, or spend money fixing said saw.
And I figure any saw pushing 25 or so years old might at any time be on the verge of needing attention to any of various components.
And I got a nearly new 50cc saw, albeit only an Echo 490.

Inaotherlife · February 17, 2019, 02:07:53 PM

Quote from: ladylake on February 17, 2019, 07:26:16 AM
Quote from: Inaotherlife on February 16, 2019, 01:42:32 PM
Stihl MS201CEM.
I got the Echo CS-361P on sale instead, which is very similar and a great little lightweight saw itself.
But the 201 has a little more power, looks a little slimmer with it's bottom mount muffler, has mag case, and a captive barnut.

I know these don't match all your criteria. About the only saw that I can think of that does is the Echo CS-501P, which I'd love to have if I didn't buy the 490 for less than half the cost.
The 501 looks real sweet though with 20% more power, captive bar nuts, aluminum front handle, translucent tank, a better chain, and decomp valve along with standard starter for lower weight and I assume a slimmer profile. Powerhead about the same weight as a 400.
ECHO CS-501P, Great Professional saw ! light-weight - YouTube
I know the published weight is real close for those 2 saws but on a good balance scale ready to cut full of fuel and oil the CS400 weighs 13# even and a CS 490 500 or 501 weighs 14 3/4 # which is a lot of weight for a little extra cutting speed. Out on sawing jobs I've sold quite a few CS400 saws after people use them and most were running Stihl and Husky. Steve

I don't think a 501P is all that much heavier than a 400 with a comparable 16" pro-lite style bar.
The 35% increase in horsepower is far more substantial.

Plus, the 501P meets ALL the OP's requirements.

The 400 does not. It's not considered a "pro" saw. It does not have captive bar nuts(not a requirement, but nice feature). It does not have a rim sprocket.
The 501P has all that and more.

Al_Smith · February 17, 2019, 02:32:44 PM

The deal on the flip cap failure is because the o-rings fail after a period of time because of the ethanol in the gasoline .It causes them to go stiff so they can't be compressed .Most people just buy a new cap but all it is is the o-ring which is replaceable and less expensive .I've got about a dozen or so in my stock because it's not if they are going to fail but when .

mike_belben · February 17, 2019, 07:08:11 PM

Most of the it was me putting them on clocked wrong or crooked, but once it was actually cracking the cap in two. Small stuff but it put an end to the day. Though its not enough to prevent me from buying a stihl, just an annoyance.

Well.. It better be a stihl of a dihl for me to buy one of them things these days but anyhow